18 replies to this topic

[Helpforhubs]

Hello,
I'm new here. My husband had begun 60mg Duloxetine 4 years ago while on Klonopin (6 months). He was pretty much bed ridden and had all the signs of adrenal fatigue prior to medication. His Dr. then put him on Duloxetine for insomnia and anxiety. My husband never wanted to be medicated in the first place and for a good reason. He has been off of Cymbalta for 16 months now. He dropped to 30 mgs, then 20mg then did 10% tapers for weeks at a time, then 5% because 10 was too much and would put him flat on his back.

As of late, the withdrawal is so bad that he cannot sit up to work at a computer. Symptoms all come and go in waves: insatiable hunger, crawling feeling, restless leg feeling all over, irritation, burning brain, extreme fatigue, depersonalization, tightness in chest, light colored stools, muscle weakness, heart palpitations (subsiding), slight depression (new symptom), and feeling of hopelessness.

He sleeps, eats and watches YouTube to pass the time. He had help from a company called Hardy which he has been taking their Daily micronutrient vitamins and amino acids. Lately the withdrawal has been so bad that he has been taking the aminos every 30 minutes or so. He also takes omega 3s and an adrenal cocktail. I am looking for any encouraging news that this will end. Anyone else struggle with debilitating symptoms for this long or begin withdrawal long after weaning off? I've heard of PAWS but this feels like it will never end for him.

Thank you for any encouraging reports!

[fishinghat]

Welcome HFH

 

Well, first of all  those are common symptoms of Cymbalta withdrawal. Secondly, the withdrawal symptoms can last a year or more after the last dose gut typically start to get better after 6 to 8 months. 

 

Next, adrenal fatique is considered a non-existent condition by most drs and has been thoroughly shown to not exist in multiple studies.  

 

FYI

 

Dr. Adam Killpartrick, DC CNS

This term was used in a blog Dr. Killpatrick posted for DaVinci Laboratories of Vermont.

DaVinci Laboratories of Vermont © 2018

929 Harvest Lane

Williston, VT 05495

Phone: (800) 325-1776 • Fax: (802) 878-0549

 

DaVinci Laboratories is a supplier of supplements for animal and human health.

 

In this blog he used the term "adrenal fatigue"

 

"Your patient may experience "adrenal fatigue" as the endocrine system cannot keep up with the constant demand for cortisol."

 

Adrenal Fatigue or hypoadrenia is a factious condition believed in alternative medicine, to be the state when adrenal glands are exhausted and unable to produce adequate quantities of hormones, primarily the glucocorticoid cortisol, due to chronic stress or infections. Adrenal fatigue should not be confused with actual forms of adrenal dysfunction such as adrenal insufficiency or Addison's disease. - Wiki

 

http://www.cymbaltaw...tion#entry61576

Information on Dr. Tracy and adrenal fatigue.

 

Dr. Adam Killpartrick

175 Barnstead Rd 

Pittsfield, NH 03263

Dr. Killpartrick earned his doctor of chiropractic degree from Palmer College of Chiropractic in Davenport, IA in 2005. 

Phone:

(917) 400-1911

NPI: 1083639652 

Provider Name: DR. ADAM E KILLPARTRICK, D.C. 

Classification: Chiropractor - 111N00000X 

Entity Type: Individual 

Address:

69 HILLSGROVE RD 

CENTER BARNSTEAD, NH 

ZIP 03225 

Phone: (603) 505-0941 

 

Dr. Adam Killpartrick

Chief Science Officer at FoodScience Corporation

FoodScience Corporation

929 Harvest Lane

Williston, Vermont 05495

1-800-451-5190

For over 40 years, FoodScience® Corporation (FSC) has led the human and animal health industry with extensive nutritional research and innovative product development. 

 

Second;

Anxietycentre

PO Box 91007

Calgary, AB T3G 5W6

Phone: 403-208-0091

Owned and operated by Jim and Marilyn Folk, 

An A+ rating with the BBB in which all evaluations were from Adam Folk, their son.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Another thing is the daily micronutrient vitamins and amino acids. Lately the withdrawal has been so bad that he has been taking the aminos every 30 minutes or so. 

 

So many members have had problems due to the vitamins they take that I don't normally suggest them unless a blood test shows a definite lack of certain items. Things like vitamin B6 and selenium are two of the most common toxicities seen in the ER. In addition magnesium, amino acids and calcium have also been a problem for many. I would strongly suggest you go to our ebook in the Medical Support section and browse through the information there. It includes things that members have tried, foods to eat, medical research, vitamins and minerals, and much more. Research articles are linked on most of these subjects so members can review.  

 

If you would give me the specific product names of the daily vitamin, amino acid supplement and adrenal cocktail I would be happy to look them over and see if I see any red flags. 

 

I am sorry for sounding critical of the products he is taking but over the years I have seen soooo many issues with supplements.  Tell him to hang in there as it does get better and there are many things that can help. 

[invalidusername]

Hi there and a warm welcome from me...

 

I am so sorry to hear what your husband has been going through, and I am also sorry for you having to carry the care and stress of looking after him. But your time will come. Make no mistake, these drugs can really mess people up - and we have seen it plenty of times. Whilst yours does sound quite a horrible case, there have indeed been many before you - meant in a way to provide hope, rather than dilute your own shortcomings.

 

As soon as I saw adrenal fatigue, I knew Hat would be all over this one!! But he is right as I went over a lot of the evidence when I felt in a similar way following my withdrawal.

 

Hat also have every reason to question the supplements as many people always operate under the delusion that more is better, whereas nothing could be further from the truth. Too much of the wrong supplement or vitamin and there could be a number of problems. I would urge you to work with Hat on this score to check that you aren't barking up the wrong tree with what he is currently taking.

 

I have just had a look for what you mentioned and found the following;

 

https://www.hardynut...nutrients-(360)

 

If this is what he is currently taking, I cannot see anything overly concerning, although I see little reason for having quite so much vitamin B. Fortunately the toxicity of vitamin B is very low and what isn't absorbed by the body will pass through the urine. But vitamins should never be a "one size fits all"... I will let Hat look further as he has a better background in this area.

 

The "aminos" every 30 minutes worries me - as does the "adrenal cocktail". Aminos are a very delicate science and need to be correctly balanced so as not to tip the scales in favour of one chemical or the other; too much dopamine, serotonin or glutamate - all of which carry their own versions of neurotoxicity. 

 

Please follow up with a little more detail and we will help as best we can. 

 

IUN

[fishinghat]

Actually IUN if that is the product it isn't too bad. I look forward to hearing back about these products.

[invalidusername]

Quite - I didn't see anything worrying aside from what I might consider a lot of vitamin B (unless you are deficient), but better that you had a look over it all...

 

My concern is as yours - the other bits and bobs the poor bloke is taking.

[Helpforhubs]

Thank you kindly for all of your help, fishinghat and invlaidusername.

 

We understand that the "adrenal fatigue" is non-existent in the medical realm and completely agree.  

 

This is the amino acid blend that he had been taking for a few weeks.  Since I last wrote, he has slowed down to 1-2 doses a day as the symptoms aren't as intense now. 

https://www.hardynut...ree-form-aminos

 

This is the micronutrient vitamin from Hardy:

https://www.hardynut...nutrients-(360)

 

You mentioned perhaps too much B?  He eats a low carb, high protein diet so maybe the DEN is too much?  

 

The adrenal cocktail is 1/4 tsp of hymalayan sea salt, 1/4 tsp cream of tartar and lemon juice in water once in the am.  

 

My husband wrote up some more details of what he went through and things he thought he'd share:

 

My Taper from 60mg took 15months total.  After I started Hardys DEN, I stabilized faster between drops. 6 weeks without DEN to then 1 week on DEN.

First 7 months or so off of C (last bead I took was March 15th 2019) I would feel bad for 3 weeks or so and then start to feel like Im getting better for a few weeks then back to bad. Whole time I also had heart palpitations. At about 7 to 8 months the crazy palps subsided and for a few weeks (this was last  November) began gaining strength and energy. Then got hit with ecoli from bad lettuce which drained me. Then the flu. Then a few weeks after that a bad head cold. At this point was feeling horrible and flat on back for about 2 months. End of January felt like things were changing for a few days, then bam hit with second round of flu (we have young children haha). Then it took another 5 or 6 weeks and I started gaining strength able to work a bit sitting at my PC. I was up and down every few days. Some days flat on back some days working. This past March I'm was 12 months off Cymbalta and I started trying to get outside for some sun about 15min a day..whole time my brain felt like was burning and I was struggling to breath. After 3 weeks of this I was then flat on my back for weeks. Then we get concerned I may have liver issues. So in bad withdrawal I push myself to go to the ER. Im released with a clean bill of health but had a panic attack from wearing a mask and struggling to breath in withdrawal symptoms.

Now, for the next 6 weeks Ive had the worst withdrawal yet. Insomnia due to adrenaline rushes at night. Took Kava a few nights and helped me get back to sleeping better. Med release or just pushed my healing back? Not sure but I started getting so many symptoms that I never had.

One thing that was odd is that heart palps have been better but still flare up and this painful stomach hunger in the morning I got since tappering also has lessened. But new symptoms started last Jan, the burning brain feeling. Honestly, it felt like the only last symptom I had but going outside and er seems to have made it worse.

One last thing is I'm up and down now within a 24hour period. Symptoms come and go. Sometimes feel all gone in a window and some days just lighter symptoms in the windows. Waves and windows seem to really be fluctuating like never before now in shorter time frames. I saw Fishinghat say this was similar for him near the end..hoping this is what it means for me!

I took a junkie omega 3 for a few days (sketched on quality so I stopped) but I read taking omega 3s will help? Maybe I should just eat fish weekly? There's so much stuff people recommend, if it truly helps physical symptoms I'd love to start a good one.  At the same time, I've read about the dangers too.

Thanks and sorry for the book. Appreciate your time and feedback.

[fishinghat]

So glad you gave me the list. I appreciate it. I will closely review the medical research on these products and will be posting what i find out as I get answers.

 

Well his notes seemed like typical withdrawal until..."This past March I'm was 12 months off Cymbalta and I started trying to get outside for some sun about 15min a day. Whole time my brain felt like was burning and I was struggling to breath. After 3 weeks of this I was then flat on my back for weeks. Then we get concerned I may have liver issues. So in bad withdrawal I push myself to go to the ER. Im released with a clean bill of health but had a panic attack from wearing a mask and struggling to breath in withdrawal symptoms."

 

 

Not classic symptoms especially at the 12 month level. 

 

 

The rollercoaster of symptoms is so typical of Cymbalta withdrawal. Usually at the 12 month mark things have stabilized considerable though. One thing to note, the colds and flu will set you back significantly as they significantly effect serotonin concentrations. 

 

The Omega 3 is a good idea but be sure to get a good quality one that is certified mercury free. At least 2000 mg but no more than 3000 mg and it should be high in epa and dha (2 types of omega 3). 

 

More info to follow. Just tell him to hang in there and we will work through this together.

[Helpforhubs]

Fishinghat,

 

You have no idea how much we appreciate it!  

 

Gratefully,

HFH

[fishinghat]

No problem. We have been through all of this and we are here to help. More to follow.

[fishinghat]

Amino Acid Blend

 

https://www.hardynut...ree-form-aminos

 

Notes on above product ingredients.

 

l-histidine

 

https://pubchem.ncbi...anism-of-Action

l-lysine was inhibited by l-arginine, l-phenylalanine and l-histidine.

Histamine is produced from histinine. 

Histamine decreases neurotransmitter release of histamine, acetylcholine, norepinephrine, serotonin.  This can worsen withdrawal. This effect can cause depressive symptoms and cause drowsiness.

L-histidine is an excellent chelating agent for such metals as copper, iron and zinc. Copper and iron participate in a reaction (Fenton reaction) that generates potent reactive oxygen species that could be destructive to tissues, including joints. This can lead to a significant decrease in these elements.

 

Isoleucine

I see no issue with this.

 

Leucine

l-leucine was inhibited by l-valine, l-isoleucine and l-methionine

Otherwise not a concern.

 

Lysine

l-lysine was inhibited by l-arginine, l-phenylalanine and l-histidine.

Otherwise not a concern.

 

Methionine

 

http://www.tandurust...deficiency.html

There are several uses of methionine in our body, it is necessary in synthesis of RNA and DNA, it helps to absorb selenium. In order to make a proper utilization of methionine, it requires cofactors such as vitamin B6, B12, choline, folic acid and magnesium.

Methionine effects the concentration of vitamin B6, B12, choline, folic acid and magnesium.

 

Note - Only a slight concern for this amino acid.

 

Phenylalanine 

L-tyrosine and phenylalanine compete with tryptophan for absorption. Tryptophan is converted to serotonin by the body so if too much L-tyrosine and/or phenylalanine is present n the blood stream then serotonin levels may decrease. 

 

The catecholamines (adrenaline, noradrenaline and dopamine), are produced from phenylalanine and tyrosine. They elevate levels of cAMP (part of energy transport system for cellular activity). Therefore, phenylalanine is considered a strong stimulant.

It can increase pulse, cause heart pounding and nervousness. Many members have experienced this effect.

 

L-Threonine

I see no issue with this.

 

Tryptophan

Tryptophan can be a great help with Cymbalta withdrawal as it is used to form serotonin BUT you should be aware it has as strong a withdrawal as Cymbalta. Fir that reason a person should not hit and miss their amino acid supplement. Take it consistently or taper off slowly if you want to stop.

 

Valine

I see no issue with this.

 

Glutamic acid

A strong stimulant. Causes nervousness.

 

Glutamine

Also a strong stimulant. One of the most common amino acids found in supplements.

Note - This has been a significant problem for many members during withdrawal and has lead many to discontinue their amino acid supplement.

 

Aspartic Acid

Proline

Carnitine

Taurine

Arginine

Serine

Alanine

I see no issue with any of these.

 

 

Tyrosine

Tyrosine is a precursor to neurotransmitters and increases plasma neurotransmitter levels (particularly dopamine and norepinephrine),but has little if any effect on mood in normal subjects. The effect on mood is noted in humans subjected to stressful conditions. Wiki

 

One of the functions of Vitamin C include the synthesis norepinephrine from dopamine and the synthesis and catabolism (breakdown) of tyrosine. So vitamin C may increase tyrosine or decrease tyrosine in the body depending on conditions. Webmd.com

 

Note - Members have either loved it or hated it. It seems to depend on the neurotransmitters that are formed by Tyrosine in their body. It can be transformed into dopamine which may help or into norepinephrine/adrenaline which can greatly increase anxiety.

 

https://examine.com/...nts/l-tyrosine/

Details the results of over 50 research articles on L-tyrosine.

 

No significant link found in the medical journals for L-tyrosine in fighting anxiety or depression.

 

Glycine

I see no issue with this.

 

n-Acetyl-Cysteine

Can be of good benefit for withdrawal as it glutamate action. The ebook contains many medical research article references on its effectiveness for anxiety and depression. Many members have seen a significant reduction in withdrawal symptoms with NAC, especially for benzo withdrawal.  THIS IS NOT AN AMINO ACID. IT IS AN ANTI-OXIDANT WITH LITTLE TO NO SIDE EFFECTS AND IS CONSIDERED GENERALLY SAFE TO CONSUME. 

 

Acetyl Carnitine

Quite a few medical journal articles noting its positive effects on anxiety and/or depression. The ebook also lists some concerns with takin g it with certain other medications or medical condition.

 

Citruline

I see no issue with this.

 

Summary - As you can see there are around 4 or 5 of the amino acids that effect each other's absorption. This is why many consider the use of amino acid supplements a waste of money. There was also a few of these amino acids that certainly are a concern during withdrawal. I normally do not recommend an amino acid supplement unless a blood test shows a need. O would suggest dropping the amino acid dose to zero over the next few weeks and then switching to 500 mg of N-Acetyl Cysteine after that. This should save you some money as well. lol  Let me know if you have any questions.

[invalidusername]

Hi HFH - good to see you again and thanks for the information.

 

The adrenal cocktail sounds interesting - the only consideration there is the acid content of the lemon which can interfere with the other supplements taken. If you are not already doing so, please make sure to take that a good 3-4 hours apart from the other supplements as the absorption will be compromised unless we are talking only a few drops of lemon juice.

 

Really bad luck with everything that occurred during the previous 12 months after the last dose. Almost unbelieveable - poor chap! There is for sure anxiety issues here and that must be expected after everything that he has been through. The brain burning is an odd one, but the weakness can sure be a result of the time spent during rest.

 

When he will have been readjusting from the Cymbalta, his inactivity would have settled an abnormal "normal". That is to say, the cymbalta will have been controlling the adrenaline and when stopped, the brain has to learn all over again, and it will be looking at day to day activity to re-write the rules for how much should be present in his system. 

 

Now, if he was using very little as a resut of being in a near permanent state of rest, then his brain will have recognised a very little amount of adrenaline as being the normal, so when he finally got out and about, this amount would be totally out of whack and it will take weeks - possibly months - or "normal" activity to again re-write the correct levels. 

 

This will result in panic because of the resultant issues that follow.

 

This is my diagnosis of the issue... from a neurological standpoint. 

 

IUN

[fishinghat]

Here are the issues I see....

 

Vitamin D - Too high a dose. Vitamin D toxicity is on the rise in the USA and should not be taken unless a blood test showes a need. Probably not contributing to your withdrawal.

 

Vitamin B6 - One of the most common vitamin toxicities found in the ER.  Please see note below.

 

Vitamin B6 Toxicity

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.../pubmed/6308447

We describe seven adults who had ataxia and severe sensory-nervous-system dysfunction after daily high-level pyridoxine (vitamin B6) consumption. Four were severely disabled; all improved after withdrawal. Weakness was not a feature of this condition, and the central nervous system was clinically spared. Although consumption of large doses of pyridoxine has gained wide public acceptance, this report indicates that it can cause sensory neuropathy or neuronopathy syndromes and that safe guidelines should be established for the use of this widely abused vitamin.

 

RDA is 1.5 mg/d for women over 50.

My wife's Supplements, without consideration of her dietary intake, was 5 mg/d (your supplement is around 5 times higher than hers and she developed Vitamin B6 toxicity from her supplement). 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...ooks/NBK114313/

Half-Life is 15 to 24 days.

 

A spreadsheet based on bioaccumulation showed that her levels after 2 years and 1/2 could have been equal to around the same as a single dose of 550 mg buildup in her body based on a 80% absorption rate.

 

A spread sheet that considered bioelimination calculated that her blood levels should return to near normal levels within 6 months.

 

This does not give consideration to her diet which has a substantial number of B6 containing vegetables. 

 

Many of the supplements on Amazon have from 20 to 100 mg/day of Vitamin B6 and with a half life of 15 to 24 days would allow toxic levels to be obtained with continuous use. 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.../pubmed/3041185

Pyridoxine neuropathy.

A case of sensory neuropathy in a young woman due to long-term ingestion of pyridoxine, with subsequent recovery, is described. Pyridoxine neuropathy may occur after the long-term ingestion of doses as low as 200 mg a day. Because of its widespread use in the community, both the general public and the medical community need to be aware of this recently described complication of megavitamin therapy.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.../pubmed/3630649

A newly recognised neurotoxic syndrome due to pyridoxine (B6) overdose is described. It is the largest series of B6 intoxication hitherto reported. A raised serum B6 level was present in 172 women of whom 60% had neurological symptoms, which disappeared when B6 was withdrawn and reappeared in 4 cases when B6 was restarted. The mean dose of B6 in the 103 women with neurological symptoms was 117 +/- 92 mgs, compared with 116.2 +/- 66 mgs in the control group. There was a significant difference (P less than 0.01) in the average duration of ingestion of B6 in the neurotoxic group of 2.9 +/- 1.9 years compared with 1.6 +/- 2.1 years in controls. The symptoms were paraesthesia, hyperaesthesia, bone pains, muscle weakness, numbness and fasciculation, most marked on the extremities and predominantly bilateral unless there was a history of previous trauma to the limb. These women were taking a lower dose of B6 than previously described (1,2), which may account for the complete recovery within 6 months of stopping B6.

 

https://www.livestro...icity-symptoms/

Vitamin B-6 toxicity cannot occur from eating natural foods, but it can occur from supplementing with its synthetic form, pyridoxine. The recommended dietary allowance of vitamin B-6 for adults is no more than 2 mg daily, but toxicity is not thought to occur until ingesting at least 100 mg daily, if not 500 mg daily, for many weeks consecutively. Some people do mega-dose pyridoxine for long enough to cause toxicity, which leads to symptoms ranging from temporarily irritating to permanent and disabling.

 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/25137514

Supplementation with pyridoxine at doses greater than 50 mg/d for extended duration may be harmful and should be discouraged. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/25056196

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.../pubmed/3630649

Because of suppliments and certain medical therapies including some chemotherapies, vitamin B6 toxicity is becoming much more common. 

 

Vitamin and mineral interferences

Calcium and magnesium should not be taken within 2 hours of any medication as it can interfere with absorption.

Magnesium competes with calcium for absorption.

Hypervitaminosis E may also counteract vitamin K, leading to a vitamin K deficiency.

Tyrosine and phenylalanine compete with tryptophan for absorption.

Niacin can cause an excess of uric acid in the blood (hyperuricemia), putting you at risk of gout. (Mayo Clinic)

Long term use of vitamin D can cause hypercalcemia (too high calcium levels).

Iron, copper and zinc are competitive for absorption.

The use of prescription drugs also helps in the deficiency of minerals. Antibiotics, Tylenol, Advil, Motrin, and aspirin all inhibit the absorption of minerals especially zinc, chromium and calcium.

Moderate to large doses of fat-soluble vitamins reduce absorption of other fat-soluble vitamins - by about 10 to 50% - due to competition. 

Vitamin B1 in high doses can lower other B vitamins and homocysteine.

Absorption of vitamin K appears to be particularly reduced by taking other fat-soluble vitamins.

Vitamin A absorption is least affected and may actually be better absorbed when taken with vitamin E. 

Taking vitamins D, E, or K several hours before or after other fat-soluble vitamins would seem to maximize their absorption.

Vitamin C can inhibit copper absorption, and too much copper can lead to vitamin C deficiency.

Zinc inhibits both copper and iron; magnesium. Also copper, iron and calcium all compete for absorption, so too much of one can lead to low blood levels of the others.

 

In general vitamins and minerals should not be taken unless a blood test shows a need. 

 

This product contains lithium orotate that can cause serotonin syndrome and should not be taken with antidepressants and other products that effect serotonin levels.  When lithium is combined with antidepressants it can cause significant vision problems. 

 

Lithium orotate has helped withdrawal symptoms in several members but should not be taken while still on an antidepressant.

[fishinghat]

Adrenal cocktail 

 

The adrenal cocktail is 1/4 tsp of hymalayan sea salt, 1/4 tsp cream of tartar and lemon juice in water once in the am.  

1/4 teaspoon of hymalayan sea salt equals 1.4 grams.

 

Himalayan salt is chemically similar to table salt. Analysis of a range of Khewra salt samples showed them to be between 96% and 99% sodium chloride, with varying amounts of trace minerals such as calcium, iron, zinc, chromium, magnesium and sulfate, all at levels below 1%.  Wiki

 

https://themeadow.co...ectral-analysis

Below is a spectral analysis of Himalayan pink salt as it is typically found. The list shows all the trace minerals, electrolytes, and elements contained in Himalayan salt. Himalayan pink rock salt is popular among health food advocates who seek it for the nutritional value of its fairly abundant trace minerals.

 

Element Ion Atomic # Concentration Method/Source

Hydrogen H 1 0.30 g/kg DIN

Lithium Li 3 0.40 g/kg AAS

Beryllium Be 4 <0.01 ppm AAS

Boron B 5 <0.001 ppm FSK

Carbon C 6 <0.001 ppm FSK

Nitrogen N 7 0.024 ppm ICG

Oxygen O 8 1.20 g/kg DIN

Fluoride F 9 <0.1 g Potentiometric

Sodium Na 11 382.61 g/kg FSM

Magnesium Mg 12 0.16 g/kg AAS

Aluminum Al 13 0.661 ppm AAS

Silicon Si 14 <0.1 g AAS

Phosphorus P 15 <0.10 ppm ICG

Sulfur S 16 12.4 g/kg TXRF

Chloride Cl 17 590.93 g/kg Gravimetric

Potassium K 19 3.5 g/kg FSM

Calcium Ca 20 4.05 g/kg Titration

Scandium Sc 21 <0.0001 ppm FSK

Titanium Ti 22 <0.001 ppm FSK

Vanadium V 23 0.06 ppm AAS

Chromium Cr 24 0.05 ppm AAS

Manganese Mn 25 0.27 ppm AAS

Iron Fe 26 38.9 ppm AAS

Cobalt Co 27 0.60 ppm AAS

Nickel Ni 28 0.13 ppm AAS

Copper Cu 29 0.56 ppm AAS

Zinc Zn 30 2.38 ppm AAS

Gallium Ga 31 <0.001 ppm FSK

Germanium Ge 32 <0.001 ppm FSK

Arsenic As 33 <0.01 ppm AAS

Selenium Se 34 0.05 ppm AAS

Bromine Br 35 2.1 ppm TXRF

Rubidium Rb 37 0.04 ppm AAS

Strontium Sr 38 0.014 g/kg AAS

Ytterbium Y 39 <0.001 ppm FSK

Zirconium Zr 40 <0.001 ppm FSK

Niobium Nb 41 <0.001 ppm FSK

Molybdenum Mo 42 0.01 ppm AAS

Technetium Tc 43 Unstable artificial isotope N/A

Ruthenium Ru 44 <0.001 ppm FSK

Rhodium Rh 45 <0.001 ppm FSK

Palladium Pd 46 <0.001 ppm FSK

Silver Ag 47 0.031 ppm AAS

Cadmium Cd 48 <0.01 ppm AAS

Indium In 49 <0.001 ppm FSK

Tin Sn 50 <0.01 ppm AAS

Antimony Sb 51 <0.01 ppm AAS

Tellurium Te 52 <0.001 ppm FSK

Iodine I 53 <0.1 g Potentiometric

Cesium Cs 55 <0.001 ppm FSK

Barium Ba 56 1.96 ppm AAS/TXR

Lanthanum La 57 <0.001 ppm FSK

Cerium Ce 58 <0.001 ppm FSK

Praseodymium Pr 59 <0.001 ppm FSK

Neodymium Nd 60 <0.001 ppm FSK

Promethium Pm 61 Unstable artificial isotope N/A

Samarium Sm 62 <0.001 ppm FSK

Europium Eu 63 <3.0 ppm TXRF

Gadolinium Gd 64 <0.001 ppm FSK

Terbium Tb 65 <0.001 ppm FSK

Dysprosium Dy 66 <4.0 ppm TXRF

Holmium Ho 67 <0.001 ppm FSK

Erbium Er 68 <0.001 ppm FSK

Thulium Tm 69 <0.001 ppm FSK

Ytterbium Yb 70 <0.001 ppm FSK

Lutetium Lu 71 <0.001 ppm FSK

Hafnium Hf 72 <0.001 ppm FSK

Tantalum Ta 73 1.1 ppm TXRF

Wolfram W 74 <0.001 ppm FSK

Rhenium Re 75 <2.5 ppm TXRF

Osmium Os 76 <0.001 ppm FSK

Iridium Ir 77 <2.0 ppm TXRF

Platinum Pt 78 0.47 ppm TXRF

Gold Au 79 <1.0 ppm TXRF

Mercury Hg 80 <0.03 ppm AAS

Thallium Ti 81 0.06 ppm AAS

Lead Pb 82 0.10 ppm AAS

Bismuth Bi 83 <0.10 ppm AAS

Polonium Po 84 <0.001 ppm FSK

Astatine At 85 <0.001 ppm FSK

Francium Fr 87 <1.0 ppm TXRF

Radium Ra 88 <0.001 ppm FSK

Actinium Ac 89 <0.001 ppm FSK

Thorium Th 90 <0.001 ppm FSK

Protactinium Pa 91 <0.001 ppm FSK

Uranium U 92 <0.001 ppm FSK

Neptunium Np 93 <0.001 ppm FSK

Plutonium Pu 94 <0.001 ppm FSK

 

 That computes to be...

20 mg magnesium

And 1 to 3 mg of nearly all the minerals found in your vitamins.

High magnesium and zinc are strongly associated with anxiety.

It should also be noted that at 0.10 ppm lead it would be classified as a hazardous waste by the EPA. Lead is a neurotoxin.

 

Cream of tartar 

No issue

 

Lemon juice 

High in sugar

Small amounts of minerals.

No issues.

 

There has been no medical research done on Himalayan sea salt but the forums are full of suggestions that this product greatly increases adrenaline production. If true it would be one of the worse things to take if suffering from anxiety. Anxiety is primarily related to an overabundance of adrenaline. 

[fishinghat]

Kava

 

https://pubmed.ncbi....h.gov/31813230/

Not effective for anxiety. Patients demonstrated poorer memories and many developed tremors as well as signs of possible liver disease.

 

https://pubmed.ncbi....h.gov/31265262/

Can cause liver damage.

 

https://pubmed.ncbi....h.gov/30396607/

Kava only has a very short period of effectiveness against anxiety and wears of quickly. Can cause liver damage.

 

https://pubmed.ncbi....h.gov/29791008/

Dermatologic, hepatologic, and cognitive adverse effects may occur.

 

https://pubmed.ncbi....h.gov/31643949/

Products labeled as kava have been linked to the development of clinically apparent acute liver injury which can be severe and even fatal.

 

Several counties regulate its use and even a couple of countries have made sale of it illegal. Wiki

https://pubmed.ncbi....h.gov/16153141/

Kava is transformed in the liver by the CYP2C19 enzyme which indicates it may effect the absorption of many other medications and suppliments. 

[fishinghat]

Oh yea, I forgot to mention that kava effects serotonin levels and may make withdrawal worse.

[invalidusername]

There are lots of different strains of kava and thus very difficult to say how one will affect different aspects of a withdrawal. 

 

If used, moderation is key. One can quickly get used to a dose and require updosing until they are taking very high doses. 

 

You also need to make sure you are getting from a reputable trader who has had the kavalactones certified. But if what you have works for you, then stick with it, but be mindful of the potential effects that Hat mentioned, but overall, I have found Kava quite therapeutic. 

[Helpforhubs]

Fishinghat and IUN,

 

It's been a long time since I've revisited the site.  I want to thank you for all of your advise and research.  

 

My husband weaned off of the amino acids, stopped the adrenal cocktail and now just takes fish oils, and when needed, L-theanine.  He is still mostly flat on his back.  He now is entering a new phase:  Emotional and crying.  He has waves of weird thoughts about humanity that he cannot describe in words.  He just says that it freaks him out. Says he has depersonalization at times.  He feels like it will never end.  The tightness in his chest still comes in waves.  He is overall exhausted but might be due to sleep disturbances, bouts of insatiable hunger that keeps him up, frequent urination, and acid reflux. 

 

 

2 of the symptoms are lifting:

Restless leg has been gone for about a month now

Burning brain feeling is lifting/not as intense

 

Wondering if the crying is a good sign that his brain is healing?  Hoping this is the last of the suffering.  It's very difficult to watch. 

 

Thank you so much for all your support. 

[fishinghat]

This is  normal step in the withdrawal process. This is your brain trying to relearn how to control your neurotransmitters in the brain. The levels of serotonin, adrenaline and epinephrine are swinging up and down far more than normal. With time these swings lessen and emotional stability greatly improves. 

 

There are some supplements that can help provide some relief if he would like to try some. Let me know and I will provide some suggestions.

[invalidusername]

Exactly as Hat said. Emotional is good because it shows things are on the change, which means that normal is but more changes away. If things remained as they were, that would be a cause for more concern.

 

So, we have been about 6 weeks since we last heard - and please feel free to come back as frequently as you like - don't be a stranger. We want to help you both through this as best we can.

 

The weird thoughts are much more normal that many would think. I still get these along with derealisation when I get too stressed - ironically, in the middle of one right now having overdone it for 3 weeks without stop. My own silly fault - but trying to recoup lost funds from covid.

 

This is the important thing to remember, he is not alone - far from it. 

 

Again as Hat said, a few specifics and we can help suggest ways forward for more relief.

 

Blessings to you both.