335 replies to this topic

[invalidusername]

Awesome RD - well done. I know how the highway (or motorway for us Brits) can be a source of anxiety.

 

Last weekend I stuck in a gridlock for 50 minutes!! I don't mind when the queue is at least moving, but no, this was bumper to bumper at a standstill. That was a test for my anxiety I can tell you!!

 

But back to you - very proud. Keep it up.

 

The mrs is doing ok. She is very conscious of my stress levels so she is keeping a lot to herself and is able to all the while she has visits from the mental health team. Without them, she could crack and unleash it all on me!! One day at a time for her, but she is going a lot of mindful stuff that has been set by the MH team and it seems to help.

[RoaldDahl]

Fishing/IUN need advice friends. 

 

I am at the end of week 5 of being clean of the benzo's now. I still have a hard time during the night. I got really low BP, dizzy and feel extremely uncomfortable. This happens almost every night. Might this be the Citalopram I take at 4 PM? Might it still be the Cymbalta which my body is missing and adjusting to? Can this still be from the benzo withdrawal? 

 

I will give it more time anyhow. Still extremely tired. 

[fishinghat]

Any withdrawal causes stress and that almost always raises bp. I noticed that you are taking the Citalopram at 4 PM  which happens to be around the time your blood pressure first starts to drop in the evening anyway. I would suggest changing to taking the Citalopram around 10 or 11 AM when your bp tends to be at its highest. 

 

The FDA reports that 2.3% of those taking Citalopram report developing low blood pressure. A likely source of your problem. Something else to consider is taking half your dose first thing in the AM and the other half early in the afternoon.

 

Hang in there RD. You are doing well. 

[invalidusername]

I would have said exactly the same as Hat here. Peak plasma level will typically be around 4 hours after taking the dose which will coincide with your bodies natural time for winding down. 

 

Due to the extended half life of the Citalopram, you will be able to switch overnight with minimal effects. So do not take your dose at 4pm, perhaps move to just before sleep, then tomorrow, take the dose in the morning when you wake. 

 

You may feel a few symptoms as a result of the delayed dosing, but they will be minimal.

 

We then need to give it a good 3 days at the new dose time to see if this has cured the issue. 

 

Again, as Hat said, we could split the dose over twice a day, but given the longer half-life this is likely to have less of an effect, so would opt for the above in the first instance.

 

Let us know how it goes. 

[RoaldDahl]

Hello Friends!

 

How is your wife doing IUN?

 

Update from me and some questions for IUN and Hat:

 

Finished week 6 of being clean of the benzo's. Saw improvement on the amount and severity of my panick attacks. Only had 2 attacks this week which lasted about 20 minutes each. 

However, I still am extremely tired, feel flu like, weak, shake a lot and my legs feel like theyre made out of iron. Could this still be benzo withdrawal entering week 7?

 

How much is my old cymbalta usage still in play?

 

Btw I found a video which shows exactly what happened to me when I quit Cymbalta for the first time in 2017 and I had it for 2 months straight: 

[fishinghat]

It takes your nervous system up to 2 years to fully recover from a benzo withdrawal. This tiredness is often referred to as "benzo fatigue" and can last a couple months after the last dose. Your previous Cymbalta wean would make your nerves more sensitive but I imagine this is mostly due to your benzo withdrawal.

[invalidusername]

Hi RD...

 

I had exactly the same tremors as shown in that video, but they progressed to pseudo non-epileptic seizures (PNES). It seems that my brain has "learnt" that now and whenever stress gets to a certain point, it will kick off again. I really hope that it subsides, but the key is in not letting the stress get to that point in the first place.

 

Glad to hear that you are still improving and Hat is the benzo guy, so he has you covered on that score.

 

The wife is ok-ish. She was discharged from the crisis team last friday and now under the community team so has less contact. Weekly visits instead of daily, and no emergency number during the day - only at night. It is a big jump. She is having good days and bad days with regards to her panic. She isn't quite where you are as she says that it is always there in the background, it is just a question of how much she can tolerate, or ignore it. But based on where she was 4 weeks ago, it is for sure an improvement...

 

IUN

[RoaldDahl]

Hello friends,

 

First of all, hope you are all doing alright!

 

An update from my side: it's been 8 weeks now since I've stopped the valium taper and I seem to go through withdrawal. I just don't know if this is all worth it. I didn't have anxiety like this while being on Cymbalta. Ever since I stopped I have experienced the most horrific anxiety attacks ever. 

My taper was too fast and brutal as well. 

 

I don't know if I can still be ''fixed'' and it makes me incredibly sad. 

 

Each morning I still wake up with an anxious feeling. My body hasn't feeled relaxed for a single day. I dont know if it's PAWS or something else but life just isn't worth it to me this way. I'm not suicidal but I have been in this mess since February and I am losing hope. 

 

I will try to hold on for another month without benzo's and see if I get any relieve. My symptoms come and go. They definately aren't as intense as in the first four weeks that I have stopped tapering but my god is this hard. I am being tested each day and I would just wish to feel normal for once. I am sorry for ranting but I am truly suffering a lot. I really hope this is all still withdrawals from the mess that I went through with oxazepam/zolpidem and then a valium taper. I have 0 support. My doctor says it's impossible that I still have withdrawals and wants me off the citalopram and onto a heavier antidepressum. I really don't want that. 

I dont know what to do anymore friends. 

[invalidusername]

RD...

 

Am I glad to see you!

 

I bring interesting news. You may or may not have known, depending on how much of my history you read on here, but after my Cymbalta withdrawal, and during it, I have suffered seizures. The only thing that stopped them, other than Kratom, is Valium. So 2 years ago I was prescribed it to prevent them. I have since required them to keep them under control. I hit tolerance at 5mg, and had to go to 10mg. Long story short, I haven't needed them nearly as much and it wasn't until I realised that I still have twice as many pills left over at the end of the month than normal, that it came to me. I was unknowingly almost cold turkeying myself!!

 

For the last couple of weeks I have had all manner of crap just like you. Headaches, very stuffy head, zaps, eye pain, muscle aches and some very troubling depression. But the fatigue has been out of this world. 4 days in the sack last week. Nowt I could do. Got me so low. Oddly enough the anxiety hasn't hit, but then again, I have been through a lot of CBT to deal with it. But like you are saying, life can be down right horrible - especially in the mornings.

 

Hat uncovered this for me a few days ago as I just couldn't see it. So I am day 2 back on a 10mg daily dose and I need to settle before thinking it through properly, but I am very worried knowing what it can do. Makes me almost not want to do it.

 

Your doctor is an idiot (sorry Hat - taken your saying!). Of course this is still withdrawal. Too early to be considered PAWS too, so don't worry. And what does he define as a "heavier antidepressant"? All AD's are relative to the person. If things don't improve it might be better supplementing rather than playing the AD roulette. You DON'T need any more tapers for a while, trust me. I have been there and thank God, I am still here to live the tale. Cymbalta, Citalopram and Lyrica all at once. If I can do that, you can get through this. We're all here for you.

 

IUN

[fishinghat]

IUN is right, your dr is an idiot. Of course this is still withdrawal. You are at the stage where you are about to turn a corner and start improving, just hold on. If you can, 600 mg of N-Acetylcysteine  twice a day can help take the edge off. Another option is around 0.2 to  0.5 mg of melatonin sublingual (under the tongue) until all is absorbed. Just hang in there. There is light at the end of the tunnel.

[invalidusername]

There is light at the end of the tunnel.

 

Just to confirm, that light at the end of the tunnel is all-embracing sun light, not a train coming the other way

 

A little anecdote a friend once told me!!

[fishinghat]

That is an oldie but a goodie.  

[RoaldDahl]

My friends,

 

I don't know what I should do without you guys. Wish you guys lived closed so we could drink a beer once this mess is behind us. 

 

I will fight through this withdrawal. I have seen improvements but it's going superslow. I hope to see more improvements now that I am entering the 3rd month of being of benzo's. I will start taking the NAC 600MG again. 

 

My doctor advised me going to a heavier AD in this case towards a tricyclic AD. I really don't want to switch again. Coming of Cymbalta already gave me a traumatic experience. 

 

tricyclic antidepressantttr

IUN, I would definately follow the slow taper which Fishing adviced. If I can pull through this rapid taper you can do it through a slow one! We're all rockstars in here. How's the wife doing?

[invalidusername]

Wish you guys lived closed so we could drink a beer once this mess is behind us. 

 

Amen to that!

 

Both myself and the wife are day 2 of NAC 600mg twice daily. Will report back on its progress.

 

Tricyclics are very much a black and white set of drugs. They work wonderfully, or ruin you. Tread carefully. Again, I would consider compounding with something that does not require an additional withdrawal.

 

The wife is doing the rapid taper insomuch that she had her pills taken away from her after her overdose. I can understand that, but there needs to be people in the health service that take responsibility for this stuff. We must have asked them a dozen times what they were doing. I have resorted to giving her a few doses from my own rx. I know I am not supposed to, but in this case I feel it is justified.

[fishinghat]

A lot of tricyclics have been linked to heart issues as well.  I think that with time and patience these symptoms will pass. I really believe it is just benzo withdrawal.

[invalidusername]

Believe Hat when he says that - he knows his Benzo information.

 

Tricyclics should be a last resort before a lobotomy

[invalidusername]

Good God - The frontalneuro specialists in Massachusetts Hospital still perform lobotomies

[fishinghat]

I wonder if they practiced on themselves first?  lol

[invalidusername]

I wonder if they practiced on themselves first?  lol

 

       

[RoaldDahl]

He friends,

 

Been a while. 

 

Some updates: I am in week 11 of being clean of benzo's now. Still on 30mg Citalopram. 

 

Let's start with the positives first! I haven't had any big anxiety attacks, it's great! Not driving a lot yet because I don't want to push myself too much. I do go on the highway but maybe for drives of 20km max. I am so thankful not to have the serious heavy anxiety attacks anymore. 

 

The worst: insanely dizzy Mainly during the night I am walking like I am drunk. However, I can focus a bit more and even watch some TV!! HUGE Victory! Still have very random twitches when I am lying in bed. Some are very intense. Getting less fatigue but it still is there and I need 9 hours of sleep at least. If I don't I feel my symptoms 10x more. I have 0 motivation for work. Feel emotionally drained. Not really enjoying things yet but I hope that will come back. Besides that I am not complaining!

 

Will keep you guys updated!

[fishinghat]

Sounds about right. You have done a good job. The fatigue should be totally gone soon and then your motivation should start returning. Very wise not to push yourself too much. Doing great just hang in there.

[invalidusername]

They way you have worded that is very positive - you are seeing the light at the end of the tunnel - this is a sure victory in the making.

 

Never forget to keep up the self-compassion. You have done a lot of hard work and you should reward yourself. Buy yourself something, treat yourself to a nice drink (if that is your thing)...

 

And its a well done from me too!

[RoaldDahl]

Hello friends,

 

How is everybody doing?

 

Update from my side: I am suffering from extreme fatigue. I can barely wake up in the morning and need to sleep during the afternoon. It is driving me crazy. I can barely function. The good part is that my severe anxiety attacks haven't returned. I am still nervous to go places but at least I am going outside of the house. I truly hope that this extreme tiredness is a part of benzo withdrawal and not cymbalta but who knows at this stage.

 

I found this guy on youtube which you might fight interesting as he withdrew from cymbalta and benzo's. He claims in his videos that PAWS and long withdrawal from cymbalta is caused by excessive candida. Curious about your opions about it. 

 

 

 

Hope everything goes great guys. I will stick to my routine of walking and going out. I am still not motivated however and exchausted. I don't know if the Citalopram 30mg is even doing anything and I would like to start tapering it down in January to at least 20mg. What do you guys think?

[fishinghat]

That is classic "benzo fatigue". Almost everyone who goes through benzo withdrawal experiences it. It will fade over time. 

 

Candida makes withdrawal worse. There are several other things that can cause withdrawal to become paws but that certainly is one of them. We have had several members who were tested and I remember that ca couple turned out to be positive for candida. Heartburn and stomach issues are more common in those going through candida and Cymbalta withdrawal at the same time.

 

Drs recommend waiting 2 years between any withdrawals. Myself I usually see pretty good success for most after a 6 month wait.

 

If you are still having the fatigue you certainly are not ready.

[invalidusername]

PAWS is a very difficult thing to correctly diagnose and it is overly used - particularly in social media circles. But when I neglected to take my benzo for a few days, thus reducing my average intake, I had exactly the same thing - amongst others. I am now on a strict withdrawal plan and holding steady on 7.5mg down from 10mg with the very occasional 10 taking its place, maybe once every 10 days. These were in place to combat my seizures which occurred as a result of coming off Cymbalta. I am pleased to say these has as good as passed, but I have a long way ahead of me to come off the benzo. 10 to 7,5 was a brave move but I seem to be ok, but I will be taking it much slower from here.

 

But back to the original comment, the fatigue is inferred by the withdraw and will pass, and as Hat said, it is a sign that things are moving too fast.

[RoaldDahl]

Hello friends,

 

Hope you all had a good and merry Christmas!

 

Update: 

 

I am not 8 months of the cymbalta and 18 weeks of benzo's. However, I am still taking Citalopram 30mg (and tbh I have no clue if it does anything for me).

 

It feels like a lost year, a year I have switched to another drug which even made things worse for me. My attacks have been traumatizing and I feel like all the suffering has been for nothing. Am I better of now than I was while being on cymbalta? No. Im still incredibly tired and my libido is low. Even worse, my anxiety is still quite high and I have literally cramps in my legs every day (and some neurological pain it seems?).

Besides that I have severe blurred vision. I cannot read the letters on the TV which is 3 meters away (I used to have perfect eyevision). 

 

I am lost. What the hell should I do?

 

Often feeling depressed. Way more depressed than I was. 

 

I feel like the damage that has been done to my body from the direct switch to citalopram and the benzo's is irreversible. 

 

This hell began in February 2020 and I am now 10 months further. 

I am left with:

 

- Severe blurry vision

- Cannot walk straight. 

- Feeling depressed. 

- Tinnitus.

 

I just don't know anymore guys. I want to feel normal. I havent felt normal in so long and been fighting every day. I am tired. 

[fishinghat]

A wasted year...I felt like I have had a wasted 7 years when I came off and am still withdrawing from the last of the meds I went on with my Cymbalta withdrawal over 7 years ago.

 

Your symptoms appear to be a classic combination of Cymbalta and benzo withdrawal. The fatigue and low libido are classic symptoms of benzo withdrawal. You should be in the last stages of that by now. Have you been checking your blood pressure? During times like this it will usually be elevated because of the stress. As the benzo withdrawal slows the systolic pressure (that is the top number on your blood pressure) will slowly drop. By tracking your highest bp everyday you can tell if you are gaining ground. The cramps in the legs, blurred vision and tinnitus are also some of the last stages of Cymbalta withdrawal. The muscle cramps should pass first. The blurred vision and tinnitus is usually minimal after the 1 year mark but a few members have had to deal with them for as long as 2 or 3 years (very unusual though).  Just remember that coming off the benzos so close to the Cymbalta withdrawal greatly increases the symptoms intensity as well as length of time. My drs have told me that it should be 2 years between withdrawals. I have found in my case that I need at least 6 months. From what you are saying I would guess (a wild guess) that you may have another 6 to 8 months with improvement during that time as well. 

[RoaldDahl]

Incredible Fishing, where did you get the strenght to continue?

 

Obviously medical mistakes have been made. I will now need to deal with the situation and pray to see improvements. I have seen them but it goes so slowly that doubt and uncretainty always creeps up. 

 

Once again Fishing, you are one bad ass mofo and I respect you so much. 

[fishinghat]

Thanks Roald. My strength came from my wife who saw me through a lot of dark nights (and days). i also had a fantastic psychologist who was great at teaching coping skills. One thing that really helped in recent years is to do an incredibly slow withdrawal from these meds. I now look at withdrawal from psych meds as a slow 3 to 5 year withdrawal, not months. I have tried to go so slow as not to have withdrawal symptoms. It works but man it takes time.  lol

 

Merry Christmas my friend and hang in there.

[invalidusername]

Hey Roald and Seasons Greetings...

 

Have read the thread and was going to say exactly what Hat said - you went on a double whammy of withdrawal which is going to take time - and unfortunately a little longer than where you are presently. Slow withdrawals can be very difficult. I am stopping my benzos at the moment which were 10mg a day. I went to 7,5mg and 10mg alternate days for 2 months, and now at 7,5mg a day which I will also do for 2 months. Although on rare occasions, I have succumbed to the 10mg dose. Current trajectory on this path sees me on them for another 12 months. But this is how it is to be. 

 

The real difficultly is that it feels they do nothing and that is where people just want to throw the towel in. It can be tough, but this time of year won't help either and don't discredit the whole covid thing. People who have never had even the slightest mental health issue have been hit with severe depression and/or anxiety. There are a lot of factors here and it has been one tough year. 

 

I pray for your strength dear friend.