335 replies to this topic

[RoaldDahl]

Hello friends,

 

How is everybody doing?

 

An update from my side.. 

 

I lost my job 2 weeks ago. I couldn't function normally anymore. Too tired, can barely focus and have 0 drive. I feel exhausted. 

 

The direct switch from Cymbalta to Citalopram and the benzo aftermath has ruined my life. 

 

I don't know what to do anymore. I seem to be healing but am I really? I still can't go on long drives. My body feels like a stranger and stressed out every day and I am so goddamn tired. Not much hope left anymore. Don't know if it are still withdrawals or that I am permanently recked. 

 

That was my quick update. 

 

I am trying to hold on but it becomes unbearable. 

 

I want to quit the Citalopram as well. I feel like it does absolutely nothing for me. What would you guys do?

[fishinghat]

So many options. Time and patience will help the most but in the mean time things can be hard to bear. I guess for now I would say to pick one symptom and focus on addressing that and then move on to the next. It would be my opinion that sleep would probably be first. What do you think?

[RoaldDahl]

I think I will force myself on a better sleeping regime first fishing. It's extremely hard for me to fall asleep but once I do i can sleep 10 hours without a problem. 

 

Im going to a neurologist soon to just have a checkup, maybe some things can be seen on scans but I doubt it. 

 

Sometimes I get so hopeless. I am off the Cymbalta since March and benzo's since 28th August. Its very discouraging to not even have half of a normal life again. 

[invalidusername]

Hey RD....

 

Loosing a job is one of the most stressful things up there with divorce, moving house etc. Don't downplay the importance of this. The inactivity it breeds is a dangerous thing indeed. I, for example, have been indoors for 4 days in a row now and all drive and enthusiasm has gone. The continuous lockdown and being in the same room with a mentally ill wife who talks about nothing but her problems, plus the fact that I am losing my therapist in a couple of weeks, has just got too much. I know how you feel at the moment my friend. It is tough. So tough.

 

But we have been here before and today is not your forever. Sometimes it is not a case of looking where to go, how to combat it, but let it play out. Our bodies are supposed to have these reactions to what they are being given. Thinking we can overcome it somehow when it is not supposed to happen will only draw more attention to the issue. 

 

But I am by no means belittling the circumstances. I feel awful, just as you must be at the moment. Sorry I am not the best of help at the moment, but you can at least take some solace in the fact that you are not the only one going through this...

[RoaldDahl]

Hello guys!

 

IUN, how are you doing buddy?

 

Update from my side:

 

Having less brain fog since this week! Had 3 days for the first time with actual clarity. Unfortunately today is a bad day and the fog and nervousness is bad.

I am still extremely tired non stop and my body feels flu-like every day. It's really killing me The last 3 days were so good mentally that it felt actually good for a first time. I could laugh and cuddle with my gf. 

Today is the absolute opposite. I still cannot handle stress at ALL. Everytime I get into a stressful situation my brain simply shuts down. The nerves in my entire body but especially my legs feel annoying. 

 

I often wonder if this is worth it and if i should change back to Cymbalta again...

 

I dont know how you could handle this for so long fishing, you are mentally so strong it's unbelievable. 

[fishinghat]

RD, not strong, just stubborn (according to my wife).  lol

 

Every time you have a good spell it swings back into a bad period  BUT with time each good spell gets longer and each bad spell gets shorter. I use to keep a log of how many good days I had in a row and then how many bad days followed. After a few weeks I could see the pattern slowly improve and it gave me hope. 

 

The nervousness in the legs is actually called restless leg syndrome and I find about 10 minutes or so of leg stretches help me a lot. During my withdrawal I sometimes had to do 8 or 9 periods a day to keep my legs "happy".

 

Hang in there. We are here for you.

[invalidusername]

"not strong, just stubborn (according to my wife)."

 

You gotta hand it to her, your wife has a handle on you there Hat

 

"I still cannot handle stress at ALL. Everytime I get into a stressful situation my brain simply shuts down. The nerves in my entire body but especially my legs feel annoying." 

 

This is how it happens and I would have put it in the exact same way during my similar days. It'll all be documented somewhere on here... But the not handling of stress is so common with this drug. It took me almost 2 years to get back to where I should be. Admittedly there were contributing life circumstances, but I knew what I could handle before and being self-employed I would thrive on it. I don't have days off!!

 

And restless legs are such a pain in ass! I remember Hat giving me the same stretching advice way back. It does help. 

 

I still have my usual amount of stress here but my homeopath has come to my rescue as there is so much going on I knew I would need some support and I refuse to bump up the valium after sticking so well to my withdrawal...

[RoaldDahl]

Hi guys,

 

I can't take this shit anymore. My heart palpitations and the constant stress in my body. I am on 30MG Citalopram and it feels like it does absolutey NOTHING for me. Would propanolol maybe give some relief?

[fishinghat]

It should help with the physical symptoms but limited help emotionally. Clonidine and hydroxyzine are other good options. None have withdrawals.

[invalidusername]

Really sorry to hear you are going through this.

 

30mg should be doing something for you - that is 75% of the max dose. Are the palpitations very frequent? Are you sure they are a side effect of the Citalopram?

 

Agree with hat on the use or propanalol  - they would be a quick fix, but not ideal as a long term solution. 

 

I have had a lot of use with Citalopram and been off and on, tapered, withdrawn... Can you remind me when you did the switch to Citalopram? 

[frog]

I took propranolol for a number of months about a year ago. I was having multiple panic attacks a day. Actually it kind of felt like I was just in one constant panic attack sometimes. The propranolol really helped with those. Then they went away on their own and I stopped taking it. Like FH said it'll help with physical symptoms like heart pounding or sweating or tunnel vision. Sometimes that in and of itself can lower anxiety because often anxiety comes as a response to those things. But beyond that it won't help you feel less nervous

[RoaldDahl]

I took propranolol for a number of months about a year ago. I was having multiple panic attacks a day. Actually it kind of felt like I was just in one constant panic attack sometimes. The propranolol really helped with those. Then they went away on their own and I stopped taking it. Like FH said it'll help with physical symptoms like heart pounding or sweating or tunnel vision. Sometimes that in and of itself can lower anxiety because often anxiety comes as a response to those things. But beyond that it won't help you feel less nervous

 

Thanks Frog! I got the Propanolol but haven't tried it yet. 

 

A quick update from my side;

 

The fatigue is not leaving. Mentally I am a lot sharper and in a better place though! The brainfog seems to become less but I keep training my memory. 

Mentally in a better place than when I last posted! 

Still a lot of nervousness/aniety in my legs. Blurry vision is becoming less and I can focus enough again to sit behind my pc/read a book. 

I had 2 seperate days with insane pain in a muscle (no specific reason for it) which left on the 2nd day. No idea if it has to do with the cymbalta/benzo's. 

 

I am still on 30mg Citalopram and want to lower it to 20mg. Would it be a good time to start doing that?

 

The side-effects of the Citalopram are worse than Cymbalta (libido wise). I have no morning erections anymore which is really weird. 

[fishinghat]

Benzos cause a phenonema called 'benzo fatigue". There are period(s) where you are so tired you just can't seem to move. Those go away after you have been off a while.

 

Cymbalta can cause a loss of testosterone which of course would cause ED. You might get your level checked out.

 

As far as reducing the Citalopram ... How long have you been off the Cymbalta. The research says wait two years to wean off the next drug. My experience is to wait for 6 months after you get feeling better from the previous wean. The nerves are still very sensitive so don't rush it.

[invalidusername]

Sorry for late response - missed this one somehow.

 

I am with Hat on this one. The nerves are very sensitive at the moment, so I would advise against rushing into another drop too quickly. 

 

Being a long term user of citalopram it would seem that the only jump you can do is in 10mg. The 10mg pills are not scored so the med is not guaranteed to be evenly distributed in the pills itself - meaning, you could break it in half resulting in one half having all 5 mg of the citalopram and the other half none at all. The 20mg however ARE scored, so in theory you can (carefully) cut these into quarters to get something close to 25mg. 

 

The other way is to use the liquid version (which no-one will supply me in the uk due to the expense), or water titration - but that is usually reserved for the sub-10mg doses. Don't, whatever you do, take 30mg one day and 20mg the next to get 25mg - even if it is suggested by a medical profession. It will not work as the half-life isn't long enough.

 

Let us know how you get on...

 

IUN

[RoaldDahl]

Hi Fishin/IUN,

 

I haven't started lowering my Citalopram yet as I want to get more stable first and not be in withdrawal anymore. They pharmacy gave me the drops in case I want to lower my Citalopram so that's great!

 

Update from my side:

 

Had a really good week last week from Wednesday to Sunday. Actually saw numerous people and went out a bit. Very little anxiety and for the first time a superclear mind. Felt calm and collected. 

However, on Sunday I crashed completely again. Became very ill/flu-like (not covid) with extreme fatigue. It's such a freaking battle it's unbelievable. 

I am however grateful that I can sit behind a PC again and read/play some games to distract myself. 

 

After my crash on Sunday I got quite some negative thoughts, seeing no way out of this. I just have to remind myself of the positive times. But bloody hell, I feel like I have a serious brain injury. 

 

The best part: the anxiety in my leggs has FULLY DISAPPEARED! Hooray!

 

The bad part: feelings of severe depression coming and going. It is really weird as these thoughts only stay for 30 minutes/an hour and disappear. Horrible. I was never a depressed person before so this must be from the withdrawal. 

[fishinghat]

Fantastic!! You have turned the corner and things will still improve more. It just have to watch overdoing things as they can certai nly cause a setback but with time you will become more resilient.

[invalidusername]

I was never a depressed person either before I went near anti-depressants, but this is the nature of the beast that these pills are. But some great news! This is where things start looking up - more better days than not. In the midst of the depression it is normal not to see a way out, despite you having come out of it many times before, but the way around this is just to remember that the depression is a symptom of the illness, the cast on your broken leg if you will. 

 

Just put your brain to one side knowing that it is broken and in need of healing. As difficult as it is, just let the depression "be there" and go about your day as you would normally, thus sending a message to the brain to say that this depression is wrong, it isn't me... that way it will disappear sooner. Play games, go out - whatever you will. Don't let it stop you doing what you had planned if it wasn't there.

[RoaldDahl]

Hi guys,

 

Thanks for the feedback. 

 

Could you guys give me your honest opinion?

 

I never used to be really scared while on Cymbalta. Travelled a lot etc. 

 

With Citalopram and the entire ordeal with the withdrawal of Cymbalta and Benzo's my self-confidence went to an all-time-low. I am scared to drive far/on the highway and I am super nervous about finding a new job as I am so limited. I still have a general anxious feeling in my body every day which doesn't seem to give up. It's so tiring. 

I should have never switched to Citalopram, that was a really really big mistake. I don't even know if it does anything for me. It sure doesn't feel like it. 

Do you guys think it will give up once I give it more time to recover? 

[fishinghat]

How long ago did you make the switch to Citalopram ?

[RoaldDahl]

I made it last year April fishing

[fishinghat]

Basically 1 year. Have you seen any improvements in the last 2 or 3 months?

[RoaldDahl]

In the last 2 months I have seen a bit of progress. I could actually watch tv again. Since 2 weeks it is possible to play videogames a bit again. Besides that it's quite horrible, especially during the night. A lot of times heart palpitations/nervous feeling in my body while nothing is stressing me. It feels like after quitting the Cymbalta so abruptly my entire hormone household got shot to pieces. I can almost consider myself handicapped at this moment. I was handicapped in the first 9 months for sure. I couldn't do a thing but lie in bed. 

[fishinghat]

Just my humble opinion but it sounds like you are still recovering from the Cymbalta withdrawal and that the Citalopram is not doing anything for you. I had a similar situation. The drs tried 4 different antidepresants on me before finding one that worked. It sounds like it may take you a long time to recover. If you are still progressing slowly then trhere is hope that that will continue. If the Citalopram is not helping then I would almost recommend switching it out for another one to see if it would work any better. That is a tough call though.

[RoaldDahl]

Yea, I'm not going to switch again. That will be the end of me tbh. 

 

I will stick it out until July and if I am not significantly better by then I have to rethink my options. 

 

I just can't believe that withdrawal can be this hard and take this long. The only thing that gives me a bit of hope is thinking that it actually is still the benzo/cymbalta withdrawal and that it will get better but I see little improvements. At the rate it currently is going it will take me 3 years to recover and I cannot do that anymore. 

[fishinghat]

I understand.

[invalidusername]

You are following my journey just a couple of years behind. I switched to Citalopram but I still had Cymbalta withdrawal whilst I was on it. Seems like nothing would stop the withdrawal unless you went back on it.

 

The whole driving too far/anxious thing I can relate to very well and it took me a long time to get around that one. To be honest, I am still anxious about driving further than around 50 miles from home, but that is partially due to the fact that the other half wouldn't get anywhere near that, so having an agoraphobic wife doesn't give me much of a chance to challenge myself!

 

Don't forget that we have all been held back by lockdowns and so forth - so don't be too quick to judge yourself on this score.

[RoaldDahl]

Thanks guys, your opinions mean the world to me. 

 

IUN, when did you get a bit of relieve? I am not in the terror anymore I experienced the first 6 months but IT IS SO HARD. Most days I wake up and feel rly ill/flu like. The flu-like feeling is not something I read about with others in withdrawal. It's annoying. Brainfog was permanent the first 7 months but it comes and go now. 

 

When I posted I was too negative. Sometimes it just becomes too much as I cannot believe what this year has done to me/put me through. People should be compensated for this, it's criminal what these drugs do to you. 

 

When did you lower your Citalopram IUN? Did you notice any changes?

[invalidusername]

Mine is a long story dear friend.

 

My citalopram days started in 2006 when I had a near fatal car accident. I recovered from the PTSD after about 18 months, but the doctor told me to stay on the Citalopram... his words were, you wouldn't take insulin away from a diabetic. Utter nonsense, but at the time I knew no better. This is what reps tell doctors to keep the money coming in to the big pharma.

 

When I realised what had happened, I went to the doctor (in 2016) who told me to drop (from 30mg) to 20mg for one week, 10mg the next and stop. Bad move! Took me from a position of being a very positive guy with his own company to a complete wreck. I then decided to learn more myself. This doctor was an idiot.

 

I tried cymbalta when I thought I needed a change of drug (as I initially went back on the 30mg Citalopram once I realise what had happened). But a lot of bad life circumstances had happened which was causing my stress, depression and anxiety. When nothing else worked, I simply thought that my system was fine when on Citalopram, so that can be replicated. So that is why I went back, and I did recover. I was going to start a withdrawal just before the covid kicked off, so that put pay to that, so I am still on my 30mg dose. But once I switched back, it took around 6 months along with an angel of a therapist to see real improvements. 

 

But I had the brainfog the same as you, headaches, dizziness, weakness... you name it. It is all documented here on the forum. Just like Hat, I have been here through it all. Hat and I have seen some very dark days on this forum between us, but we are here - as much as everything else - to show people that it CAN be done. I never would have believed it, but I did it. It has changed my life for the better, and as crazy as it sounds, I wouldn't change it. It has given me a much clearer perspective, it has made me grow spiritually and has given me some of the best friends I will ever encounter in my life. My family here means the world to me, and I would do anything for them.

 

Your time is coming RD. Trust me....

[RoaldDahl]

Hi Guys

 

Update from my side. 

 

In general doing a bit better anxiety wise. I am currently alone for a while and that really makes me anxious however. I keep constantly thinking something is wrong with me (do we call this looping thoughts)? The last year and the traumatic panic attacks have caused so much damage for me. 

 

I used to love being alone, now I literally am afraid and don't know how I will get through the coming days. This shit is brutal to say the least. 

 

Tinnitus is becoming a bit less but still 24x7 there. I am glad however its not that loud anymore. My heart and heartpalpitations are still ongoing. 

 

I feel like getting of Cymbalta the way me doctor advised me was the biggest mistake in my life. I am really really doubting if I should get back on that poison or not.

 

Thanks for the story IUN, gives me some perspective. I sure hope so mate. Im not having a great year lol.

 

My confidence is completely gone. I am constantly worried about myself. It fucking sucks, I never ever had this. 

[frog]

Hang in there. You're doing great. Losing control of your brain and body like this is truamatic and shakes your perception of what is normal and safe. It really is the case that you need to slowly rebuild your confidence as well as tolerance for day to day life. It doesn't happen all at once and you shouldn't expect it to. I remember having tremendous anxiety if my husband so much as went to the grocery store for an hour or two. I could barely leave the house. I also doubt that your fear and anxiety today is EXCLUSIVELY related to the thing you're actually anxious and fearful about. My best guess is that for now all negative emotions will feel amplified, that's how it happened for me. I could only think about the negative and scary things and focus on them obsessively, like constantly thinking about how my life was over and I would never be able to go out with friends to a restaurant much less go visit my family or go on a fun vacation. Except that it was the middle of the pandemic and nobody was inviting me to do any of those things. I would watch TV and see people going out and it would make my heart pound. Thankfully most of that is behind me and I think it'll still get better as life returns to some idea of normal. For the record even though I thought about it MANY times I never went on any other SNRI or SSRI, but I also never took Cymbalta for anxiety in the first place which made the withdrawal even more infuriating. The only thing I take now is a bit of Seroquel for the insomnia I developed (working on getting off that now) and L-theanine supplements which actually helped me a lot. 

 

Good luck!