1191 replies to this topic

[invalidusername]

This sounds more like an issue with the circadian rhythm. This is controlled by the release of melatonin and its subsequent change to serotonin. If there is an issue whereby this conversion occurs too early, this is what would happen. 

 

Hat is the man for sleep disorders relating to withdrawal, so you'll need to wait to hear from him tomorrow as I cannot be sure how the two correlate.

[fishinghat]

IUN hit on the key. Uncontrolled neurotransmitters, especially serotonin, causes the wake sleep cycle to go crazy. You may be very sleepy in the afternoon, wake at 3 AM, sleepy the next morning, and so on. This fades as stability increases with time. I know years ago many members said it was beneficial to sleep when ever you can. If you get sleepy in the afternoon then take a nap. Many claimed this help expedite recovery from anxiety.

[Mxpro32]

I was reading that if the body doesn't have enough serotonin, there isn't enough left to make the melatonin it needs? Would 5htp help? Saw my psychiatrist last night about it. He said switching to clonazepam could help, but he said they would fill the prescription because I still have Xanax. He said double the .5mg to 1mg when I go to sleep in the mean time. I slept 5 hrs instead of 4 and was still sleepy when I woke up and eventually went back to sleep.

[invalidusername]

In theory that would happen, but this is not a disease to speak of, this is your brain balancing. If you start feeding it more supplements it won't know how to level itself out. And again, I would bring up the "one thing at a time" statement.

 

5HTP shouldn't be used lightly, there is much more to it than people are aware. I have a whole book on its use and should be read by anyone before using it. As Hat often says, supplements can be every bit as dangerous as medication used in the wrong manner.

[fishinghat]

Agreed IUN. I posted a couple articles yesterday on 5htp and there certainly are concerns as well as its own withdrawal. I just posted a list of sleep meds and their effectiveness on Driven's thread. You might want to look at it.

[Mxpro32]

Well, doubled the Xanax before bed as recommended by psychiatrist and was wide awake at 3:00. Trying not to dwell on the insomnia, but it's so frustrating

[Mxpro32]

I'm struggling with knowing what I have control over. I'm exercising and meditating daily. I'm working on my attitude and coming to peace with my feelings in the moment, and not making it worse by stressing and ruminating about it. Is this just a matter of the passage of time, or is working on getting my head straight going to help? I just have this dark depression that rarely lifts.

[invalidusername]

Depression is a wave that cannot be fought. Best you can do is acceptance. Go about your life as you would if you didn't have the depression as best you can. Accept there will be times when it hurts. Don't ruminate on how long it will last, how long it has been around.

 

Unfortunately there isn't a xanax equivalent for depression that will give you that occasional break from it as it can for anxiety. This is what is so tough. The only thing that helped me was my Kratom - but this isn't for everyone I understand.

 

Your head will level itself out over time - "working" on it sounds too much like a chore that will invite more issues.

[Mxpro32]

By "working" on it, I mean using cbt techniques to try and reframe negative thoughts, trying to control ruminating, exercising, and meditating. I'm also working on acceptance. I guess I'm wondering if any of these techniques for helping with depression going to help with the withdrawal depression, or is it just a matter of minimizing suffering and letting time pass? I also read somewhere that cbt and other recovery techniques aren't effective if you aren't sleeping well. I know my depression is way worse when I'm not sleeping enough, which is every day where I have to get up and get my kids to school. On weekends I will lay in bed and sorta sleep till 10:00 which really helps.

[fishinghat]

Those are excellent techniques but it is really just a matter of time. Those techniques take a little edge off but that is about all.

[Mxpro32]

I'm starting to realize that. I just hope the sleep comes back sooner than later. I'm trying to view this as a challenge which I can use to develop patience and coping skills that will help even when my brain gets straight.

[Mxpro32]

So last night, I did my meditation before bed, took some benedryl, then 1mg of Xanax as my Dr. Suggested, and fell asleep at 11pm and woke up 3 hours later wide awake. I spent the rest of the night laying there trying to at least rest. I'm concerned I'm building tolerance to the benzo, but I can't fall asleep period, or stay asleep without it. What am I to do?

[Mxpro32]

There is also more anxiety/fear when I wake up than there has been. I've felt anxiety in general ramping up a little, especially in the morning.

[frog]

There is also more anxiety/fear when I wake up than there has been. I've felt anxiety in general ramping up a little, especially in the morning.

 

Same here Mxpro. Although I'm currently weaning off my remaining 7 beads (at 4 beads now) so I thought it was related to that. 

[Mxpro32]

I'm just scared of what I'll do if the benzos quit working to help me sleep

[fishinghat]

How long you two been on the benzos?

[Mxpro32]

1 1/2 months of .5mg at bedtime and .5 when I wake up in the middle of the night. Just tried 1mg at bed time twice

[fishinghat]

The reason I ask is that for most benzos they fade out around 4 weeks. The only option for a benzo then is to up the dose every 4 weeks. That is how so many get hooked on large dose. I had posted a list of sleep meds. Many of those are not addictive. Did you look over the list?

 

Are you having any depression with your symptoms?

[Mxpro32]

I'll look for the list. Yeah I've been having some depression.

[Mxpro32]

My depression has been really bad most days. Why do ask?

[fishinghat]

Most sleep aides make depression worse.

[invalidusername]

It is really about letting it pass, but when it is coupled in with withdrawal it can hang around longer than the usual spate of depression. Mine would come and go withing 4-7 days, and then a respite, but during withdrawal, it could last so much longer with only the occasional rays of light, but as Hat has already said, these moment will get longer and the bad less frequent. Patience is so difficult I know, but when there is sod all you can do about it, worrying and getting annoyed about it will only draw it out longer.

 

Accept that you are in a hole right now, but keep looking up to the opening at the top so you are reminded that there is a way out. If you are always looking down, you never see a way out.

[Mxpro32]

Yeah, I'm starting to realize the only control I have is how much worse to make things by stressing, and worrying about them. Today was more anxiety than depression, which was actually better. I have experienced a lot more anxiety early on in this and I'm better at accepting it and not fighting it. I even dealt with a stressful customer today.

I also felt more neutral at times today, which is much better than super depressed.

[fishinghat]

"Yeah, I'm starting to realize the only control I have is how much worse to make things by stressing, and worrying about them."

Oh that is so true.

[Mxpro32]

Well the adrenaline thought it would make an appearance again. It's been gone for a while, but yesterday the heart started pounding. It pounded all night so I slept even crappier, and it's still pounding today. Then an ungrateful customer who I did a bunch of free extra stuff for treats me like shit and my anxiety goes through the roof. I definitely thought I was done with the adrenaline as it's been gone for a while now.

[invalidusername]

It doesn't take much to bring it back unfortunately, but it will get less sensitive as time goes on. I had this for three months and thought it would never end. But you have to keep thinking that the brain suddenly gets it right, then something triggers it and it shoots a load more norepinephrine thinking "hey, I was wrong with that dose" and off it goes again, but the more you stick to your "normal" life, the more chance it will have of getting the right "default" settings for your adrenaline production.

 

Hopefully that makes sense...

[Mxpro32]

I took my family to LA for the weekend to go to universal studios. I had a good day until I get an email from a customer who wants to cancel an order we just shipped Friday. The order loss and shipping is costing me thousands. My anxiety went through the roof. I could barely breathe and it pretty much ruined my trip. My kids, 4 and 6 had a blast, but I wish I wasn't missing these experiences dealing with this crap. I did breathing exercises and calmed myself a little, but last night the anxiety was so bad I slept even worse. When I woke up in the middle of the night, my anxiety was a nightmare. Now today I'm exhausted and depressed. These stressful moments seem to wreak havoc on my recovery.

[invalidusername]

...and they will. I also seem to attract them from nowhere. I woke up to a answerphone message from a call at 4am from a client who was shouting that he was taking me to court because I had taken too long to finish a job and he had lost work. That did pretty much the same to me. I manned up and called him back and told him that the fault was with the equipment that he bought and it was his responsibility to deal with them and not me... do your worst with the court! But it didn't help me much...

 

Unfortunately life is like this.

 

Don't wait for the storm to pass my friend, learn to dance in the rain...

[Mxpro32]

I've felt pretty normal for a couple days in a row now. Kinda nice. The tricky part is not getting impatient and pushing too hard on the good days. I'm trying to take it easy on myself even on the good days

[invalidusername]

Magical moments those...

 

Somewhere I can hear Hat singing Perry Como