1191 replies to this topic

[Mxpro32]

Yesterday was a tale of 2 halves. The first half of the day I was depressed and and like I needed to cry, then about 4 pm I started feeling An upwelling of emotion and started laughing hysterically at a stupid meme, then I started feeling better and had a really nice evening.  I slept like absolute garbage last night.  Less than 5 hours with frequent awakenings.  I’m at 11 months off and it’s been 11 months of insomnia.  I’m almost convinced a lot of my emotional issues would go away if I could just get some damn sleep.  It’s so frustrating.

[invalidusername]

Sleep has a lot to do with these things - make no mistake.

 

We require rem sleep cycles to activate the backwashing of the brain via use of cerebral fluid - the resistance of which can cause all manner of emotional traumas. This is why sleep deprivation is used frequently in torture. It is one of the most harsh means of testing the emotional resilience of a man.

 

I really wish you could sneak some of my "special k" passed your mrs.... it would really help your sleep no end

[Mxpro32]

I'd be willing to try it.  makes me a little nervous since I can't seem to predict how things will effect me.  

[fishinghat]

P.S. Coming off a benzo does reduce REM sleep.

[Mxpro32]

my mood has been a lot better the last few days, mainly in the afternoon and evening, but my sleep has been way worse.  I'm sleeping from 1 to 530 and waking up 1 or 2 times wide awake and taking a while to get back to sleep.  when I wake up at 530 I am wide awake and can't get another wink of sleep.  usually I can drift in and out for a couple hours before I get up.  

[frog]

I feel like if I were sleeping so terribly for so long I'd be ready to throw the kitchen sink at it every night: magnesium, ashwagandha,melatonin. I'm not 100% sure but I think the gabapentin I was taking previously was helping me to stay asleep a bit longer (300mg at night). I hate to suggest any more medication, but sleep is so important. Since stopping the gabapentin my sleep was horrendous especilaly last week. I was waking up at 5:30am nightly, sometimes able to go back to sleep, sometimes not. Could be coincidence but I'm getting in a little more sleep this week with the use of some of the above. Going to bed earlier could also maybe help? If your body clock wants to wake up at 5:30 maybe going to bed earlier will result in some extra hours? 

[fishinghat]

Ashwagandha or sublingual melatonin are good options.

[Mxpro32]

I feel like if I were sleeping so terribly for so long I'd be ready to throw the kitchen sink at it every night: magnesium, ashwagandha,melatonin. I'm not 100% sure but I think the gabapentin I was taking previously was helping me to stay asleep a bit longer (300mg at night). I hate to suggest any more medication, but sleep is so important. Since stopping the gabapentin my sleep was horrendous especilaly last week. I was waking up at 5:30am nightly, sometimes able to go back to sleep, sometimes not. Could be coincidence but I'm getting in a little more sleep this week with the use of some of the above. Going to bed earlier could also maybe help? If your body clock wants to wake up at 5:30 maybe going to bed earlier will result in some extra hours? 

magnesium doesn't help, might even make it worse.  if I go to bed earlier, I can't fall asleep, and if I do I just wake up earlier which is even more frustrating.  I think I'll try the ash again.  the trazodone knocks me out pretty quick to fall asleep if I take it later.  if I take it earlier, I still don't fall asleep until later.  I could try the melatonin again too, but it didn't work before when I tried.  

[fishinghat]

Be sure it is a liquid form and let me know what brand and I will recommend a dosage to try.

[Mxpro32]

liquid form melatonin?  mine are sublingual tabs

[fishinghat]

I found that liquid works better than the tabs as they usually contain some magnesium and are less soluble through the mouths surface. You can try the tabs again if you want to. It won't hurt anything. What are their dosage?

[Mxpro32]

3mg

[fishinghat]

OK, the maximum dose would be 0.7 mg, anything over 1 mg is detrimental to sleep. So I would start with around a 10th of a tablet. Hold it under the tongue until fully absorbed and try to not swallow any more than necessary.

[Mxpro32]

I tried the extended release melatonin I bought a while back and it did the trick.  I was able to go to sleep before eleven, woke up at 5, then fell asleep until 8.  Now I'm pretty groggy, so hopefully it doesn't make me tired all day, but its probably worth it even if it does.  I tried the extended release melatonin months ago and stopped for some reason, but I don't remember why.  

[fishinghat]

Give it a try. If it doesn't work you can always try the sublingual.

[frog]

I take Seroquel nightly to go to sleep. Whatever the smallest dose is. I literally cannot fall asleep without it. 

 

Last night I actually slept a pretty good amount which was a relief. I took melatonin and ashwaghanda. Maybe the ash helped maybe not, but it doesn't hurt so hey why not

[Mxpro32]

Give it a try. If it doesn't work you can always try the sublingual.

 

I tried it last night and I slept really well.  I fell asleep before 11, woke up at 530 and then slept til 8.  was a little groggy this morning, but no more than I would be before when I slept through the night. 

[fishinghat]

Remember your body builds up tolerance to melatonin so it will stop working after a few days. Lay off for 4 or 5 days and you should be able to use it again.

[Mxpro32]

I'm planning to use it a few days at a time to catch up on sleep

[invalidusername]

I tried the extended release melatonin I bought a while back and it did the trick.  I was able to go to sleep before eleven, woke up at 5, then fell asleep until 8.  Now I'm pretty groggy, so hopefully it doesn't make me tired all day, but its probably worth it even if it does.  I tried the extended release melatonin months ago and stopped for some reason, but I don't remember why.  

 

Exactly - this is the downside to the extended release melatonin. There is always a downside. Hopefully a few days will give you confidence in getting that sleep cycle back in order. I remember the days well, being terrified of waking up. I dare not go to the bathroom as it might wake me up even more... You have my sympathies MX, really you do.

 

I won't push the "Special K" any more, but to say you know who to ask if you want more information. It saved me when the melatonin started making me depressed after it built up in my system. But do heed Hat's advice, less is more with this stuff. Very tempting to just chug a half bottle of the liquid stuff, but it will only do the opposite.

[Mxpro32]

The extended release worked great the first night, then not so good the second night, and not at all last night.  Disappointing.

[invalidusername]

Interesting. That's one to update the book with Hat...

[Mxpro32]

well, it seems my 4 day stretch of good mood is coming to an end.  the last 4 days were pretty effortless and enjoyable.  I was laughing a lot and generally enjoying my life.  the things that usually cause anxiety and panic were seen with clear perspective and weren't overwhelming.  I was working in the shop, and yesterday I painted my sons room.  today, I have no motivation to move or do anything.  I can tell my wife has plans for me today and is starting to get irritated.  she wants me to paint the nursery now, but I feel down in the dumps and don't want to do anything.  I feel pessimistic and slightly anxious, and I kind of feel like crying.  it took me a while to get this window, I'm hoping I don't go too long before the next one comes.  

[invalidusername]

That's the way... focus on the next one being just round the corner. Unfortunately, we can never know when the strong of good days is going to end. But the way to deal with them is to just accept that they have happened and see the bad days as the "odd ones out", not the other way around. I have had about 40 or so days before I hit burnout yesterday, and I am telling myself that this is perfectly normal. Anyone in my situation would have reached the same point having looked after their partner for so long, whilst working, shopping, having zero social life and doing nothing for myself...

 

Try your best to curb the pessimism if you can. We need to divert the focus away as much as we can.

[fishinghat]

Expectations are a significant stress when in this sensitive state. That is a large job so you may want to break it down into small steps. 

 

Step 1 - Buy the supplies .

 

Day 2 - Get the room ready

 

Day 4 paint one wall

 

Day 5,6,7 - repeat,     

 

Day 8 cleanup room.....

[invalidusername]

My brother makes a very good point.

 

The brain needs to get back to functioning the reward centres of the brain. You need to make sure that you give yourself manageable steps that you can achieve with minimal stress. 

[frog]

MX I'm sure it was so disappointing to have the 4 days come to an end BUT I hope it was also encouraging that there are better days ahead. And longer stretches eventually too imo. Sorry that you're feeling pressure from your wife. I imagine from the caretaker perspective it sends mixed signals when we feel well for a while and then suddenly feel worse and unable again, since we look the same from the outside and they don't understand how it feels inside. I think to FH's point breaking it down into manageable chunks is a great idea. 

 

FH I've seen some mention of extended release melatonin causing grogginess but the liquid not. I've been doing a liquid for a couple weeks now to help fall asleep, which it has done, but I've been having trouble staying asleep and I have a suuuuper hard time with the grogginess every morning as well. Could it be the melatonin? This is what I take https://www.cvs.com/...g-prodid-407603 and I do 5 drops nightly which supposedly equates to 5mg???

[Mxpro32]

today I had some depression and that upwelling of emotion again, where it feels like bad anxiety, but I feel like crying or laughing, and usually yawning, lol.  having the 4 good days made it easier to handle though, because it really feels temporary.  I know I'm going to get to that grounded place eventually.  I'm not even going to take the extended release melatonin any more as its not doing anything.  my sleep has been terrible.  the grogginess I felt the first night was actually nice.  it felt normal instead of wide awake early in the morning. ts very disappointing to have it work so well for one night and then no more.  maybe I'll try the liquid if I wake up in the middle of the night.  not convinced it will work though, nothing seems to. 

 

my wife has been really patient through everything.  the problem is, she sees when I'm functioning better and jumps on my back like a jockey and starts whipping me to get as much of her list done as possible before I stop functioning again.  problem is, that pressure isn't helpful in keeping me from going down again.  

 

16 more days and I'm off of the klonopin!

[Mxpro32]

My brother makes a very good point.

 

The brain needs to get back to functioning the reward centres of the brain. You need to make sure that you give yourself manageable steps that you can achieve with minimal stress. 

 

 

I've been better at functioning in my shop lately.  the key is to not have expectations or push myself too hard, or compare where I'm at now to where I once was.  I set some goals for the day and plug away at it, and if it becomes overwhelming, I call it a day.  

[fishinghat]

Frog

 

5 mg? Way too much. No wonder you are groggy in the morning. Are you swallowing the liquid or letting it be absorbed in the mouth? 

 

Unluckily manufacturers of melatonin play games with the manufacturing process in order to make a "more effective" product. In your case your product contains beet root extract. Apparently considerable amount as it is the next ingredient listed after water. Beet root abstract contains amounts of a family of compounds that lowers blood pressure and would help with the sleeping process. I know there are possible side effects from it but don't recall what. I have it in my library so will post it this morning (Hopefully). Manufacturers of melatonin have been found to add benzos, ash, hydroxyzine and other ingredients that are not listed on their labels to improve the product. Beet root extract is another example of the kind of game playing they do. The beet juice explains why you are still getting some improved sleep from this product. The 5 mg of melatonin is way too much and accounts for the grogginess in the morning. 

 

Let me pass on what I am doing just to give you something to think about.  

 

My product does not contain beet root extract. If I am having trouble falling asleep I take 2 drops (0.2 mg) of the liquid melatonin and am asleep in about 5 to 10 minutes. Know with the withdrawal you are going through it may take 0.5 mg or so. If I wake up in the middle of the night i can take it again as long as I use it sublingual. It goes into the blood stream faster that way and therefore takes effect faster and wears off faster so you do not have the morning grogginess.

 

I will post the information on the beet root extract a little bit later.