1191 replies to this topic

[frog]

 

I remember some 2 years back when Hat said the exact same thing to me...

 

MX - This certainly is tough, but it will come around. For me, your "products" was my car. Prior to my episode, I had put so much work into developing it into one of the finest cars on the road. I tweaked the engine, made everything lightweight, uprated everything, but I would get that same thing like you say. A small spark when I looked out the window every morning and look at the car, but it would soon extinguish. There was no enthusiasm and all the time I had put in seemed like a waste. 

But let me tell you... I look out the window every morning now, and I am in awe of it again! I am back actively finding things to do on it! There is still the odd day here and there, but this is life. If you were happy every day, you wouldn't be human, you'd be a game show host (if anyone remembers the classic 80's flick... I quote Winona Ryder there!).

 

FROG - This is textbook. Your brain is supposed to do that. It is build to recognise such things - regardless of whether they are good or bad for us. The problem is the anxiety that occurs when there is no threat. Whilst there is a threat, the only thing you have in your arsenal is to let it be. The more you fight it, the worse you will make it.

 

For the times where there is not threat, just talk back to your anxiety... "bring it on bitch!"... "do your worst!". Tough for sure, but following the work of Claire Weekes, this is a way to get past it. 

 

 

I hear you. I guess with the GI stuff it's hard to figure it out if there is in fact a threat or not. I think that's because I don't trust my body at all, so it feels like there is in fact always a threat. I think if I could get the symptoms completely under control and not have any episodes for like... a month or something I could more confidently talk back to my anxiety and get past it. I'm concerned that I'm conditioning a response to this "threat" but maybe the issue is just that the threat is actually still very real and not just a perception and that's why it's hard to let it go. 

 

Mxpro I wish I knew the answers to those exact same questions! If I don't confront my stressors, fears, and anxieties am I just conditioning a stronger avoidant response as a result? I think sometimes I also push myself because I know I can do it and I know I should be able to do it and i like coming out on the other side saying oh yeah I did that! But for whatever reason every subsequent time it's just as much of a struggle to do the same thing again...

[Mxpro32]

I was at 50ml of solution which was .1mg klonopin.  I've been dropping 1 ml per day and I'm down to 37ml.  my anxiety hasn't been too bad so I kept going. my anxiety has been better since I lowered my concerta dose (I'm down to 27mg from 36mg.  originally I was on 54mg).  

[Mxpro32]

I hear you. I guess with the GI stuff it's hard to figure it out if there is in fact a threat or not. I think that's because I don't trust my body at all, so it feels like there is in fact always a threat. I think if I could get the symptoms completely under control and not have any episodes for like... a month or something I could more confidently talk back to my anxiety and get past it. I'm concerned that I'm conditioning a response to this "threat" but maybe the issue is just that the threat is actually still very real and not just a perception and that's why it's hard to let it go. 

 

Mxpro I wish I knew the answers to those exact same questions! If I don't confront my stressors, fears, and anxieties am I just conditioning a stronger avoidant response as a result? I think sometimes I also push myself because I know I can do it and I know I should be able to do it and i like coming out on the other side saying oh yeah I did that! But for whatever reason every subsequent time it's just as much of a struggle to do the same thing again...

 

I'm thinking when I feel fairly normal in every other aspect of my life, and that is the only thing causing intolerable anxiety and emotions, then I'll know that its an avoidance issue.  as long as I'm barely able to keep a decent mood once in a while if I don't push myself too hard in any way, its probably best to not push it.  My kids werent home yesterday for the first time in a while and I had some good emotional processing and had some productive tears.  I think I've been bottling things up when everyone is home.  a lot of the time I feel the emotional build up and wish I could cry or feel the emotions, but it feels like a sneeze that won't come out.  I felt better after crying yesterday.  I'm still not sure if I'm genuinely processing built up emotions, or if my emotions are chemical in nature and it just feels better to cry.  its probably both.  

[frog]

I think that's very fair and it sounds like you have a lot going on. If I were in your shoes I wouldn't assign much pressure to not being able to find motivation to do certain things either. 

 

For myself I feel like there's still a distinct difference between what I guess I would call up days vs down days. I definitely still lose a lot of self confidence on the down days. I feel less avoidant on the up days, but it's still a struggle and the anxiety still kicks up when I'm dealing with these perceived threats. 

[fishinghat]

Excellent Mxpro. Considering that you are weaning 3 drugs simultaneously it is no wonder you have some anxiety and sleep issues. If you need to it is Ok to take a little break if you need to. You are doing great.

[Mxpro32]

I still have plenty of up and down days.  I feel like I'm up the last few days, but even up days are a little touch and go, lol.  I consider days where I am feeling emotions that seem to have meaning (even if I'm crying about them) as up days.  the days where I'm inexplicably depressed or overwhelmed with anxiety for no discernible reason, I consider down days.  once in a while I have days that are enjoyable and effortless.  I call those my great days.  I'm hoping what I consider great days will eventually become more the norm as I actually feel normal on those days.  

[Mxpro32]

the way the nature of reality has changed for me as my brain heals has been the most curious aspect of this process. early on I felt like nothing was real and I didn't know who I was anymore.  then I checked out for a while.  a few times I've felt like my perception was opened wide, like I would imagine psychodelics do.  it was very surreal how the whole of reality all of a sudden seemed bizarre in how real it seemed.  it was like I was seeing the world with fresh eyes with all preconceived biases and emotional correlations removed.  like really grasping the nature of being a biological being floating through space on a planet.  nothing was taken for granted and my mind was blown.  lately I'm having something similar, but a more depressed bleak version of it.  the reality of being a biological being that is aging and ultimately dying is dominating my thoughts.  everything seems pointless, but for different reasons than any previous depression I've ever felt. I see the ultrasound of the new baby, and instead of being excited like I was with the first 2, I'm overwhelmed with how bizarre it is that this creature is growing in my wife, and not in the being in awe kind of way.  at times I feel like most of my learned human associations and meanings have been stripped away, like I'm an alien observing human life devoid of the natural motivations that make you human.  this perception changes regularly, and I'm trying to look at it with curiosity instead of being disturbed by it, but it would be nice if I could feel like a normal human being at some point.  these perceptions and lack of normal motivations can trigger my depression if I focus on them.  I seriously spend a decent amount of time wondering what a normal person would do, or what would motivate them to do anything.  its like I've lost myself.  if I think about what I was like when I was younger and took life for granted in all the right ways, like a naive human enjoying human things, I start crying.  it feels like a curtain has been pulled back and I've seen behind it and I can't go back.  I know its probably just my chemicals getting straight, so I'm hoping they straighten out and I can be motivated and feel normal human things again.  

[frog]

Love this description. So interesting. We know there are ripple effects when you mess with your brain chemistry as the brain shifts and adjusts and compensates so given the mix of things you've been on it's certainly possible you're rediscovering parts of your brain that had been hidden away for lack of a better word. Hopefully it settles down though and you settle into a 'normal' 

 

Up days are definitely not perfect. I can still be exhausted or feel unmotivated, but for me on the up days I just feel mental fortitude, most clearly I feel like fear takes a backseat and I have confidence in my future and that things will eventually be back to normal. The bad days I just feel nothing but heavy dread. That all my fun, carefree days are behind me and I will forever be impacted by these debilitating GI issues. And other people who have similar problems spend their whole lives isolated and so now I'm going to have to be isolated as well and I'm just 32 and oh my god my life is over and I will never experience joy again. I've been a catastrophizer my entire life and I've always had social anxiety but I think it was kind of like a muscle you work out. I would force myself to go and I would have a nice time because I do like being around friends and over time it got easier and less scary to do. Now with the shutdown I feel like the muscle has atrophied. I am legitimately anxious when I think about going back to the office full time or making plans to hang out with people again. I guess I never actually dealt with where the social anxiety was coming from I just got used to it and now I'm out of practice...

[Mxpro32]

boy, I am getting tired of life being so hard.  lately my stress intolerance has been bad.  every little thing overwhelms me.  I was able been catch the anxious thought and short circuit it before I go full panic, but it would go straight to feeling hopeless and a little depressed.  for a while when I had anxiety, it was just there and not linked to any stressful thoughts in particular, bu the last couple of days my anxiety has been getting strong and my mind is looking for things to stress about.   everything seems like a catastrophe.  my mind is hunting for things to panic about.  I feel like my control over the panic is precarious.  so basically, I'm depressed and feeling like Im constantly about to be majorly screwed by something.  it feels like threats are everywhere, and the doom is inevitable.  I'm also exhausted from lack of sleep.  I really can't believe everything is still this bad 10 months off.  I'm starting to wonder if I'm going to need some meds eventually.  I'm not there yet, and I never want to go through this again, but lack of progress is really making me question things.  I just feel like crying.  

[fishinghat]

Mxpro, what supplements have you tried? Have you looked through the post on "Things that can help"?

[frog]

This is a bit random but are you getting much exercise? Last week I was getting extremely agitated and uncomfortable in my body. My chest was super tight and it was making it harder to breathe, which was making me more anxious. I was feeling on the verge of tears constantly and just depressed. Every day it just felt like some pressure inside of me that was building and building and building and not finding an outlet. I ended up going on a bike ride for a bit (first one in over a year and I'm in terrible shape so it was great cardio for me) and I ended up feeling REALLY good after. It burned off most of that anxious nervous energy that was driving me bananas. I actually felt so relaxed for once that at one point while I was sitting watching TV I finally noticed that I hadn't been anxious at all. (Ironically, that thought itself gave me a little jolt of anxiety). It carried over into the next day too for the most part. 

 

Anyway I know motivation is super hard right now but I think forcing yourself to get your heart rate up even once a week might help rebalance some of the excess neurotransmitters and hormones that might be floating around as a result of being under so much stress all the time. I'm going to start trying to force myself to get moving a little bit more too

[Mxpro32]

Mxpro, what supplements have you tried? Have you looked through the post on "Things that can help"?

I'll have to look again.  Im sure I have them all in my closet as I've bought just about every supplement that has been recommended.  lately I've just been taking nac, fish oil (2 in the morning and 2 at night), and glycine before bed.  I'll take suntheanine when anxiety is bad.  hard to tell if it helps.  I had a friend recommend phosphatidylserine to help with cortisol levels at night.  

[Mxpro32]

This is a bit random but are you getting much exercise? Last week I was getting extremely agitated and uncomfortable in my body. My chest was super tight and it was making it harder to breathe, which was making me more anxious. I was feeling on the verge of tears constantly and just depressed. Every day it just felt like some pressure inside of me that was building and building and building and not finding an outlet. I ended up going on a bike ride for a bit (first one in over a year and I'm in terrible shape so it was great cardio for me) and I ended up feeling REALLY good after. It burned off most of that anxious nervous energy that was driving me bananas. I actually felt so relaxed for once that at one point while I was sitting watching TV I finally noticed that I hadn't been anxious at all. (Ironically, that thought itself gave me a little jolt of anxiety). It carried over into the next day too for the most part. 

 

Anyway I know motivation is super hard right now but I think forcing yourself to get your heart rate up even once a week might help rebalance some of the excess neurotransmitters and hormones that might be floating around as a result of being under so much stress all the time. I'm going to start trying to force myself to get moving a little bit more too

 

 

I haven't been exercising.  its been 109 degrees here.  I was riding my dirtbike once a week when it was only 100 degrees.  when the weather was nicer I was cycling.  I do probably need exercise.  I may have to get up early to do it, but I usually lay in bed hoping to go back to sleep.  I read an article the other day where the author described what it was like going off of cymbalta for a month.  he described what it was like worrying about every little thing. worrying about his finances to the point he was convinced he was going to go broke and be unable to pay his child support and lose his kids.  basically worrying at a ridiculous level like we do.  he went back on after a month cause he couldn't take it.  the things my mind is finding to freak out about is ridiculous.  I'm seeing life altering threats everywhere I look. it feels like its inevitable that I'm screwed.  

[fishinghat]

Mxpro...

 

Phosphatidylserine   (Theoretically reduces corticol.)

Phosphatidylserine  is an important phospholipid cellular membrane component which plays a key role in cell cycle signaling, specifically in relationship to apoptosis (programmed cell death). When the Phosphatidylserine in the cell membrane turns around (The head of the molecule pointing out and the tail pointing in) it acts as a signal for macrophages to engulf the cell.

 

In May, 2003 the FDA gave "qualified health claim" status to phosphatidylserine thus allowing labels to state "consumption of phosphatidylserine may reduce the risk of dementia and cognitive dysfunction in the elderly" along with the disclaimer "very limited and preliminary scientific research suggests that phosphatidylserine may reduce the risk of cognitive dysfunction in the elderly." FDA concludes that there is little scientific evidence supporting this claim.

 

Originally acquired from the bovine brain, mad cow disease put an end to that. Most is now extracted from soybeans. Phosphatidylserine can cause side effects including insomnia and stomach upset, particularly at doses over 300 mg.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23312676

Well tolerated.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23723695

safe for human consumption.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21807480

Well tolerated

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/12385596

Soy derived Phosphatidylserine is safe for human consumption.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC4237891/

A Phosphatidylserine/phosphatidic acid complex normalized the hypothalmus-pituatary-adrenal axis in acutely stressed males. It normalized cortisol levels.  They used PAS 200 (200 mg of both compounds) and PAS 400 (400 mg of both compounds). Only the PAS 400 showed the beneficial response.

  

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2503954/

Reduces cortisol levels after exercise.

  

Several of these studies showed that the compound Phosphatidylserine had no effect on blood pressure or pulse. With the combination (PAS) returning the hypothalmus-pituatary-adrenal axis to normal function in the chronically fatigued. Adrenaline increases and cortisol decreases with an increase in energy levels. This increase in energy is what causes the insomnia side effect. Should be taken in the morning.

 

Not compatible with adrenergic agonists (eg. Clonidine). Most reviews of this product are positive but do reflect that it is an adaptogen (your body adapts to it in time and begins reducing its natural production).  Many reviews state it only helps for a couple months at a time. There are many who say it makes them sleep like a baby and many who say it causes insomnia. This is probably due to whether or not the person is suffering from a chronic adrenergic state (stress over a long period of time elevating adrenaline levels) OR from adrenal insufficiency which is due to a relatively short term intense stress which causes a burst of adrenaline followed by a drop in adrenaline. This is what causes the knees to shake and a person to feel exhausted after say a car accident.  

 

http://www.cymbaltaw...rove#entry59862

 

Ramona - I've read that there is a supplement called Phosphatidylserine that reduces the amount of cortisol your adrenals are over-producing. Anyone familiar with this? I checked with a pharmacist over the weekend and he said I shouldn't take Seriphos while on Cymbalta. 

 

Bethhalffull - I saw a new shrink. She recommended ...  phosphatidylserine. When I investigated the second ingredient it is supposed to limit cortisol.

 

I could find no medical journal article associating Phosphorylated Serine with lower cortisol levels. I did find several articles on its effects on the adrenal gland but no reference to its efficacy for either anxiety or depression.

[frog]

I haven't been exercising.  its been 109 degrees here.  I was riding my dirtbike once a week when it was only 100 degrees.  when the weather was nicer I was cycling.  I do probably need exercise.  I may have to get up early to do it, but I usually lay in bed hoping to go back to sleep.  I read an article the other day where the author described what it was like going off of cymbalta for a month.  he described what it was like worrying about every little thing. worrying about his finances to the point he was convinced he was going to go broke and be unable to pay his child support and lose his kids.  basically worrying at a ridiculous level like we do.  he went back on after a month cause he couldn't take it.  the things my mind is finding to freak out about is ridiculous.  I'm seeing life altering threats everywhere I look. it feels like its inevitable that I'm screwed.  

 

I do the same thing (laying in bed hoping for more sleep). 109 sounds miserable to be sure hopefully it'll cool off soon so you can get back out there. 

 

The worrying thing is wild. I was already a worrier before all this so I feel like all my insecurities are being preyed upon. My mind is only drawn to negative reinforcement which is frustrating.  In a way though I think it's also made me realize that I've always been like this. Overanalyzing and always bracing myself for the worst outcome. I'm so risk averse that I become paralyzed and do nothing. So maybe now that it's thrown in my face so clearly, it's as good of a time as any to start chipping away at it.

 

In any case, I wish we knew so much more about what exactly our brains are going through right now. Even though it's pretty terrifying I think it's fascinating too and knowing that there's some kind of method to the madness would also relieve some of the anxiety. I also get really scared that I'll have to get on some kind of medication to make this finally go away, but I'm still trying to just deal with it naturally for now. I think we both want to feel normal because the world is so abnormal right now. Hang in there Mxpro! I do think there's a light at the end of the tunnel but the world might have to return to normal first...

[Mxpro32]

I've been taking the ps100 (100 mg) at bedtime.  not sure I've noticed a difference, since I've kinda been all over the place lately (other than always getting 5 hours of sleep).  

 

yeah,  I've always been a worrier too, and this just makes it way worse.  I would worry a lot before, with occasional bouts of panic when my business looked like it was going under.  now that panicked screwed feeling is more the norm that doesn't go away.  this has made me very risk averse as well.  when it comes to the carrot or the stick, I'm all stick.  i'm preoccupied by avoiding bad outcomes and potential disaster, and my brain has no ability to imagine anything that would motivate me to work toward.  the creativity my panicked brain has shown in coming up with disaster scenarios is almost laughable.   I imagine the world being a very uncertain place right now isn't the best incubator of calm sanity.   its hard to return to normal when the world isn't normal.  my mood has started to turn around a little this afternoon.  I'm starting to come down from the panic and see things a little more clearly.  I still feel anxious, but not as bad.  I'm kinda noticing that trend of feeling a little better in the afternoon and evening lately, which is weird because I anticipated feeling better while my concerta was doing its thing, since I just lowered that dose.  I was talking to a friend, and he had the idea of writing the 2 year mark on the calender and just making it to that point before making any decisions.  then, if I'm not significantly better I can consider meds, which I really don't want to do, and I imagine I won't have to, but at least its an option in my head so I know I have options and won't always feel this bad.  

[frog]

It's an interesting thought, that the withdrawal aggravated and amplified our existing risk aversion tendencies. I know for me also the risk aversion really flares on the "down" days. And not only do I start to dwell on all the potential risks, but I lose any sense of self confidence in dealing with the potential risk, and it's frustrating because I don't see any reason why I wouldn't figure out a way to get through whatever it is. My mind just chooses to focus on the potential danger and not the solutions to dealing with it. I think facing this mental block is a long time coming for me, though, and I've asked my therapist to start addressing this in our sessions by actually working through real scenarios that are coming up and help quiet the fear by rebuilding my coping strategies. The way my therapist described it, it's like my just latches on to the fear aspect and I feel scared and then nothing beyond that. I just hit a wall of fear and get paralyzed and am unable to look beyond that. Overall I just feel like this has all really laid bare that I never had great coping strategies in the first place, so I guess this is as good of a time as any to take control of that. I'm crossing my fingers that it helps! Now and in the long run too. 

 

I hope you're finding some ways to help cope as well.

 

And yes your friend is absolutely right. You can always go back to medication, that option will always be there if you need it. I think at the very least you should wait until you're not actively tapering anything and go from there. 

[Mxpro32]

i guess I wasn't always risk averse.  I started my own business and have taken all sorts of risks with confidence in the past.  on cymbalta I lost a lot of my drive and motivation, so I think the risk aversion took center stage whereas before I felt the risk but my drive would overcome it.  what I'm dealing with now is a whole other level, and it sounds very similar to what you describe.  I can't stop scanning for potential threats and freaking out, and like you describe, I'm unable to look beyond the fear.  its all encompassing.  I'm scared for all the near term threats, and scared of all of the bad things that can happen long term, extending all the way to my death.  I see all of the potential pitfalls in life, and I see it as inevitable that one will take me out and I get paralyzed.  I get so focused on threats, I forget how to have a regular life.  like I really don't know how to do it when all I can think about are things that terrify me.  a standard life is my goal and it seems impossible.   I really think its still withdrawals controlling the fear center which controls the inner monologue.  this level of terror, panic, and constant focus on threats doesn't feel natural, especially since there are tiny windows where it just lifts with no effort from me or my thoughts.  

 

we got a new bulldog puppy a few days ago.  if you remember our beloved bulldog died a few months ago.  shes a sweetheart, but she whined last night and made my sleep even worse, lol.  still, I woke up determined to not let my inner state dictate my day, so even though I was tired, depressed, and anxious, I went in the shop and worked really hard for 4 hours.  we really have some machines that need to be built and shipped so I'm trying to focus.  there were several times where I would feel the anxiety welling up and I would press on.  just before lunch I really started to get anxious and I felt like I was going to cry.  I'm trying to decide if I want to go back out there and keep pushing just to prove I can or if I should take it easy.  

 

I'm down to .06mg of klonopin.  I started the titration with 50ml which was .1mg and I've been going down 1 ml per day.  I'm down to 30ml.  FH, if I continue at this pace until I'm off, how long until my brain adjusts to not having it?

[fishinghat]

For me at that rate it usually takes 3 to 6 weeks.

[frog]

30 more days to go!

That's so exciting. The end is in sight even if it might take a while after for things to settle down. 

 

If you can figure out how please share a photo of your puppy! I love bulldogs they are so goofy looking. I know puppies come with their own headaches but I hope she's bringing you some joy right now too. 

 

I don't feel like you need to push so hard that you're on the verge of tears. Eventually it might end up negatively reinforcing your lack of desire to be out there. I think it's clear that you CAN do it if you absolutely had to. I think that's the important takeaway. 

 

I agree that there are windows of time when the fears and the obsessions with negative scenarios fade to the background and I start to look forward to the fun, positive sides of things. It must be that there's some chemical imbalance still happening. I wish I knew what it was specifically. And I wish I knew for sure that my brain wasn't permanently stuck creating this imbalance. Sometimes it really does feel like Cymbalta broke my brain irreparably. I hope that's not true. 

[Mxpro32]

https://www.dropbox..../hazel.jpg?dl=0

 

maybe this will work.  I think I attached a picture of her.  other than keeping me up last night, shes pretty great. 

 

yeah, I did some work this afternoon, but I didn't push myself.  I know that I can do it if I have to.  now I just need to work on convincing my brain that I'm in a place where its not necessary  to panic constantly and work like crazy to be ok.  that its ok to slow down and heal.  I think I have to see days like today as positive.  my physical symptoms of anxiety were really strong, I felt overwhelmed with emotion at times, but I was able to function ok.  thats improvement.  my fear is that the rest of my life will be this way, but I think that fear too can be put in the same category with all of my other stupid fears.  for one thing, I'm only 10 months off cymbalta, and I'm still coming off of klonoping and concerta, AND we are in a global pandemic.  maybe theres still hope that life will have a little contentment one day soon.  

[fishinghat]

 "for one thing, I'm only 10 months off cymbalta, and I'm still coming off of klonoping and concerta, AND we are in a global pandemic.  maybe theres still hope that life will have a little contentment one day soon. "

 

You hit the nail on the head there. 

[frog]

OMG what a little meatball I love her!

Feel free to drop in photos whenever you feel like it

 

I think it's totally fair to put fears about being stuck like this into the same bucket as all the other fears. It's not that the fear itself isn't real. It definitely is. Obviously given how little if any research there is into a condition like this it's difficult to be sure of the outcome, but you won't ever be permanently like this. If nothing else, there's always medication you can take to fix this. But I still think it'll get at least somewhat better on its own. I still feel like things are changing for me. No one week has been exactly the same. As FH says, as long as things are still changing, it's still going to get better. It's not time to panic unless you've been standing still for a while. 

[Mxpro32]

Oh things are changing, just not necessarily for the better yet. Each day and week is different. I'm sure my brain will figure it out eventually.

[Mxpro32]

I've been more stable the last few days.  sleep is a little better.  I still wake up wide awake after 5 hours, but I don't feel as anxious and restless when I do, and after a bit, I can go back to sleep.  when I go back to sleep its still pretty fitful, but better than nothing and I'm feeling better with that little extra sleep.  I'm not really having anxiety, and I'm not feeling painful depression, but I'm super flat.  like zero motivation to do anything.  even the little things around the house.  nothing is remotely enjoyable, even recreational things I should enjoy. I can't make myself do anything, but I'm really uncomfortable doing nothing too.  I end up just looking for a distraction of some sort to distract me from the emptiness.  thats the most distressing thing right now..  my wife is starting to get pissed because I'm not helping enough, but I just can't care.  my friend said he was really flat when he stopped taking his ADD medication too.   at least my anxiety is under control, and I only have 23 more days until I'm off of my klonopin.    

[Mxpro32]

now today my anxiety and depression are creeping back in.  whenever I have fearful thoughts, my heart jumps and then sinks into heartbreak, as if the bad thing already happened.  this afternoon I've got that emotional upwelling again.  where I feel like I'm going to laugh or cry and I start yawning uncontrollably.  my sleep was terrible last night.  I tried going to bed earlier but couldn't fall asleep, then I woke up every hour and a half and took forever to fall back to sleep.

[fishinghat]

Just hang in there Mxpro. Things will get better soon. 

[frog]

You're getting close to the finish line! Hopefully once you're done tapering you'll start to see some stability. And you're changing a lot of mood altering medications at once. I think it would be unfair for you to expect to feel balanced right now. I'm sure your wife is stressed running the household but it's not like you're doing any of this on purpose. Maybe this is a good time for her to reevaluate some things as well in terms of her workload. Maybe it's ok to let some things go entirely. Or if you're able to financially afford some help around the house maybe you can do that to take pressure off of everyone. 

 

I'm actually on average doing pretty darn good suddenly for the past few weeks. The bad days are less bad now. I think the adrenaline levels have finally dropped off again because I've noticed another shift in the physical anxiety that I had been experiencing (I almost never had physical anxiety symptoms before this). I'm not really getting the chest tightness almost at all anymore and as a result my breathing is better, and I just feel much less tense overall. It's probably kind of a chicken/egg scenario too on which aspect was driving the anxiety. The most interesting part is that I'm no longer getting these mini adrenaline surges that I've been getting for a while. If I even thought an anxious thought for a millisecond I would get this little rush. It's really hard to explain. 

 

It's weird.. it took 5 months for the first noticeable change in physical adrenaline problems (the panic attacks) to stop... and then it took another 5 months for the next change. My appetite is much better and it doesn't feel like there's a lump in my throat sometimes that makes me not want to eat. And overall the anxiety is less severe even around situations that normally make me anxious. I'm not experiencing super random bouts of panic as frequently as I had been. Unfortunately I'm still not sleeping well. I think somehow the gabapentin was helping me to stay asleep for 8 hours because now I can't really sleep more than 5 or 6 at a time and I almost never can fully go back to sleep once I wake up. I just lie in bed fitfully for a few more hours until the grogginess wears off. I also still get overwhelmed super easily. My panic response is still easily activated but at least recently it seems to be more tied to specific stressful situations. Last week I saw a carpet beetle on one of my jackets. We've had issues with bugs eating our clothes for a while and when I saw this little asshole I got freaked out. So I tried to stay calm and take the steps to get an exterminator, etc. But when the exterminator told me that there's nothing they could do to treat our clothes, we would just have to dry clean everything, I nearly lost it. I was so overwhelmed by the thought of how insurmountable this task was that my emotions just completely ran amok. I hate still losing control like that. 

[Mxpro32]

You're getting close to the finish line! Hopefully once you're done tapering you'll start to see some stability. And you're changing a lot of mood altering medications at once. I think it would be unfair for you to expect to feel balanced right now. I'm sure your wife is stressed running the household but it's not like you're doing any of this on purpose. Maybe this is a good time for her to reevaluate some things as well in terms of her workload. Maybe it's ok to let some things go entirely. Or if you're able to financially afford some help around the house maybe you can do that to take pressure off of everyone. 

 

I'm actually on average doing pretty darn good suddenly for the past few weeks. The bad days are less bad now. I think the adrenaline levels have finally dropped off again because I've noticed another shift in the physical anxiety that I had been experiencing (I almost never had physical anxiety symptoms before this). I'm not really getting the chest tightness almost at all anymore and as a result my breathing is better, and I just feel much less tense overall. It's probably kind of a chicken/egg scenario too on which aspect was driving the anxiety. The most interesting part is that I'm no longer getting these mini adrenaline surges that I've been getting for a while. If I even thought an anxious thought for a millisecond I would get this little rush. It's really hard to explain. 

 

It's weird.. it took 5 months for the first noticeable change in physical adrenaline problems (the panic attacks) to stop... and then it took another 5 months for the next change. My appetite is much better and it doesn't feel like there's a lump in my throat sometimes that makes me not want to eat. And overall the anxiety is less severe even around situations that normally make me anxious. I'm not experiencing super random bouts of panic as frequently as I had been. Unfortunately I'm still not sleeping well. I think somehow the gabapentin was helping me to stay asleep for 8 hours because now I can't really sleep more than 5 or 6 at a time and I almost never can fully go back to sleep once I wake up. I just lie in bed fitfully for a few more hours until the grogginess wears off. I also still get overwhelmed super easily. My panic response is still easily activated but at least recently it seems to be more tied to specific stressful situations. Last week I saw a carpet beetle on one of my jackets. We've had issues with bugs eating our clothes for a while and when I saw this little asshole I got freaked out. So I tried to stay calm and take the steps to get an exterminator, etc. But when the exterminator told me that there's nothing they could do to treat our clothes, we would just have to dry clean everything, I nearly lost it. I was so overwhelmed by the thought of how insurmountable this task was that my emotions just completely ran amok. I hate still losing control like that. 

 

thats awesome.  I'm glad you are doing well.  I know exactly what you mean with the adrenaline spikes at the hint of a stressful thought.  I've mostly been better about those too, until today.  seeing how my entire experience changes so quickly gives me hope that this is still withdrawal related.  I went from being completely flat, feeling nothing with no motivation to move, to today having a powerful upwelling of emotion that makes me want to laugh or cry or both, while simultaneously yawning uncontrollably.  if I resist the wave of emotion, it turns to powerful anxiety.  the sleep thing is the killer.  everything changes for the better when I get good sleep.  when I don't, I start falling apart.  I hope we both start sleeping well soon.  I'm assuming my klonopin taper is messing my sleep up.  I'm sure your gabapentin issue is causing yours.  

[frog]

Yes I am here to confirm that you are still changing. In like.. March-ish I noticed a huge improvement when the panic attacks went away. Then since like May I went through weeks of feeling like nothing was getting better at all and I was starting to lose hope all over again (my god how many times have I gone on that rollercoaster during the last 10 months) but lo and behold over the past month something just suddenly shifted again. It's not completely back to normal, but it's dare I say just about completely tolerable (minus the whole sleep thing ugh). Keep going! It is going to get better. I can say that with certainty now