1191 replies to this topic

[Mxpro32]

Overall I have been I guess. It feels like I have been taking steps backwards though. The anxiety has been decently bad for a while, but I attribute that to the Klonopin withdrawal. The depression has been mostly gone till this week. It feels different though. It's like anxiety depression. I'm restless, anxious, depressed, and really tired.

[Mxpro32]

I feel like the insomnia is taking a toll, but I can never tell if the depression causes the insomnia or the other way around.  my nerves still feel fried too.  upset customers set me off.  I'm always anxious and feeling like something bad is going to happen or I'm screwed somehow.  

[fishinghat]

There is this phenomena called "benzo fatigue". It is an overwhelming tiredness that feels like you haven't slept in days. Hard to get motivated, in fact hard to even get up and move. The one thing you can do is stay on the same dose of Benzo for 3 weeks minimum and see how much this resolves. Doing the benzo this soon after the Cymbalta withdrawal makes it even tougher. Take a break for awhile and just see what happens. 

[Mxpro32]

yeah, I was wondering what the effect of dealing with two withdrawals simultaneously would be.  I would have waited, but the klonopin was making me depressed.  another thing I just remembered.  I tried the magnesium threonate for a couple days before the stretch of depression.  then I read some people were becoming dependent on it and couldn't sleep without it so I stopped.  then I went into 4 days of depression.  the 2 days I was on it I slept really well, but I was taking it in the morning too so I felt pretty drowsy all day.  I wonder if that has anything to do with it.  

[Mxpro32]

what are your thoughts on the 50mg trazodone i've been taking for sleep?  it works well to get me to sleep.  is there any potential for that interfering with my healing from the other meds?  its so weird.  I've been constipated like I was with my early depression, and my difficulty swallowing has been really bad again.  I feel like i'm choking every time I take a bite.  

[fishinghat]

 The magnesium threonate is a good bet too. 

 

There shouldn't be an issue with the trazadone keeping you from healing. 

 

The difficulty swallowing brings us back to the benzo withdrawal and anxiety. I still think a 3 week break in benzo withdrawal would do wonders.

[Mxpro32]

I think I will do that.  today hasn't really materialized the depression I thought was coming.  its more of a fear, panic, anxiety, with a feeling of impending doom.  I feel like I want to run away, but there is nowhere I can run to get away from my internal struggles.  then if I'm able to breathe and actually relax for a minute I start yawning and feel like I'm going to fall asleep.  I think I'm really exhausted from not sleeping well and the adrenaline is the only thing keeping me awake.  sorry for complaining so much.  Its just nice to have somewhere to get it out.  

[fishinghat]

"I think I'm really exhausted from not sleeping well and the adrenaline is the only thing keeping me awake."

 

That is exactly what happens.

 

Don't worry about the complaining. That is what we are here for. I too used up a lot of forum space and time doing the same thing.

[Mxpro32]

I think the combination of bad anxiety and exhaustion from not sleeping is leading to the depression.  my anxiety is pretty bad today, but I can't stop yawning and feeling like I'm going to fall asleep.  exhaustion and anxiety is not my favorite combo

[fishinghat]

Patience Mxpro. It will fade.

[Mxpro32]

Patience Mxpro. It will fade.

 

 

I sure hope so.  I am really struggling with the idea that I'm broken forever.  its starting to freak me out

[invalidusername]

MX... Apologies for absence for a couple of days, but just to jump in here with my 10 cents.

 

Whenever I have had a bout of stress-induced anxiety, it seems to always follow with some depression. Thankfully that seems to be the marker of the end. But despite their being two sides of the coin, it makes sense that you will get low as a result of having to deal with so much anxiety. It rarely goes the other way I find.

 

The best and only way to deal with depression is to treat it like a wave. Just let it come. There is nothing you can do, so jut let it come. It is such a difficult one to learn, but if you let it be, you soon learn to forget that it is there. The more attention you give it, the longer your mindset stays focused on it. 

 

I know it is so difficult to ignore, but acceptance is the key. 

 

Having read through your post over the last couple of days, I can see a pattern for it emerging, but even so, better not to question where and when and why it came about as that will only end up feeding it. Just feel it, welcome it and let it be and it will pass on.

 

It can't rain all the time.

[Mxpro32]

MX... Apologies for absence for a couple of days, but just to jump in here with my 10 cents.

Whenever I have had a bout of stress-induced anxiety, it seems to always follow with some depression. Thankfully that seems to be the marker of the end. But despite their being two sides of the coin, it makes sense that you will get low as a result of having to deal with so much anxiety. It rarely goes the other way I find.

The best and only way to deal with depression is to treat it like a wave. Just let it come. There is nothing you can do, so jut let it come. It is such a difficult one to learn, but if you let it be, you soon learn to forget that it is there. The more attention you give it, the longer your mindset stays focused on it.

I know it is so difficult to ignore, but acceptance is the key.

Having read through your post over the last couple of days, I can see a pattern for it emerging, but even so, better not to question where and when and why it came about as that will only end up feeding it. Just feel it, welcome it and let it be and it will pass on.

It can't rain all the time.

What pattern are you seeing?

[invalidusername]

It is the calm that you had after your four bad days. Then you had a lift from it, and correct me if I am wrong, but you would have been feeling very vulnerable during this time as a result of that feeling better. Not quite sure how long it would last, whether it would continue, looking over your shoulder for triggers that could prematurely set it off. Am I right so far?

 

So it is a classic example of never having any downtime  despite there being better days. You are not giving yourself a breather.

 

There is no blame, nor should there be any guilt. It is all part of the process. Eventually, you will just let these things happen and think "well there is nothing I can do, I have tried everything" and it will gradually play less on your mind.

 

Just being aware of this will help bring that all important time further forward.

[Mxpro32]

That sounds about right. The depression scared me so I was worried about it even when I was feeling better. I feel significantly better today as well. I'm trying not to think about it.

[invalidusername]

Well done... and glad to hear the better days are coming closer together.

 

It will even out in due course. I was in your position for a while myself... I know whereof I speak!

[Mxpro32]

I think I am at a point, where recognizing when I have a thought or emotion that could lead to a downward spiral and addressing it is helpful.  I think my system is still fried and on edge which makes my reaction to the thoughts and emotions quicker and more powerful, but practicing mindfulness to prevent the original stimulus from triggering a cascade of negative thoughts which triggers a cascade of negative emotion can stop it from spiraling.  I started reading my mindfulness meditation book again and there are a lot of good reminders.  like the concept of being mode vs doing mode.  learning to just BE and not try to solve every negative emotion that comes up with the problem solving doing mode.  the quickness that a stressful thought can send me into panic, or a sad thought can send me into deep sadness is astounding.  I have a hair trigger.  but that also means I'm starting to get some control if I can become aware enough to see the initial that that creates the reaction.  I think mindfulness and meditation will help me to do that.  

 

the latter part of yesterday I was pretty calm, and I slept pretty calm as well.  I woke up early, but not in an anxious state like I have been.  then I laid there for a while in and out of sleep and was overcome by a rush of adrenaline and anxiety.  it was a strange mixup of my usual pattern.  overall, today has been pretty good though.  

[ubetchaMN]

Hello, new to this forum but I would like to let everybody know on this thread that you have been a tremendous help and you have brought me quite a bit of relief knowing that what I am going through is not unusual and there IS other people out there in the same boat. 

 

short story(long) I am 40 years old happily married to a supporting wife and I have wonderful children.   I was on 60mg Cymbalta for over 12 years, worked fine only issue was the constant fatigue.  I wanted to see if "grass was greener on the other side" and find a different anti-depressant that would be as effective but not make me so tired. Trusting my PA since he was suppose to be the "expert", he had me taper in a 4 week span to Prozac.  This created major panic attacks and anxiety and so I quickly switched back thinking the problem would be taken care of.  Obviously it wasn't and I continued living in a world of high anxiety, derealization and panic all awhile he kept increasing the Cymbalta to 120mg.  With no trust or confidence in this PA and at the end of my rope, I opted to go back  to my childhood Psychiatrist (who practices in another state) who was willing to take me on again and has helped me slowly tapper off and onto another anti-depressant (Pristiq) while also taking 20 mg of Librium at bedtime while I navigate these waters.  I have been Cymbalta free for 5 1/2 months but I have had a roller coater ride with anxiety in the process.  I would go a couple days feeling fine and thinking it was all behind me to get hit out of the blue with an anxious episode. Looking back, I have made a lot of progress during this timeframe,  I do CBT and mindful meditation and I still continue to have anxious episodes but not nearly as severe and or long to recover from.  I have been able to go a week or two feeling like my old self but my biggest fear was exactly what was described in this thread, that the rest of my life will be like this and there is NO LIGHT at the end of the tunnel.  I don't consider my self suicidal but there was a time at my lowest point where I could see someone feeling like this and thinking that there were no options left.

 

Hearing from you that it can take up to 2 years (hopefully less) is so extremely reassuring. I have been obsessively searching all ends of the internet and could never find an answer on "how long until my brain "heals" or get back to what I consider normal until I found this thread.

 

I have accepted the fact that I will probably always be on an anti-depressant and that is just who I am and I should not be embarrassed about it. I know the risks of long term benzo usage but I am hopeful once I get this under control I can safely and slowly tackle getting off that.

 

Again, thank you so much for being vulnerable and putting into words what you all were going through for me to read and take comfort from.

[fishinghat]

 

 

welcome ubetchaMN.

 

Glad to hear that you have gotten off the Cymbalta. I assume that your dr informed you that Pristiq also has a significant withdrawal. 

 

i would say that now it is a waiting game to see how far you settle down. The progress will be a little like a rollercoaster but should get better. Try to minimize your stressful activities and get plenty of rest and you should be OK. don't worry about whether you will be on antidepressants the rest of your life. You can deal with that decision when the dust settles. 

 

Let us know if there is anything we can do to help and please feel free to come back anytime for any reason.

[Mxpro32]

apparently I was on pristiq 4 years ago before I started the cymbalta.  my insurance stopped covering the pristiq.  I don't remember having any issues with the switch, but I remember being happier on the pristiq.  cymbalta numbed me out and made me exhausted all the time.  

[ubetchaMN]

Thank you so much for the information and kindness.  My doctor and I did not talk about the Pristiq withdrawals but we chose it because I had a Genesight test done and it was one of the medications that showed to be the most compatible with my gene makeup.  I assume if I ever get to the point of getting off of it the tapering process will look much different then what I did for Cymbalta and hopefully the withdrawal process will not be unbearable.  At the very least I will be my own advocate to make sure it goes extremely slow.

[Mxpro32]

lately I can feel halfway decent if I don't try to accomplish anything.  today I tried going in the shop and just playing with some of the new products I was developing.  I was trying to do it with no pressure, but trying to decide what to work on felt like a big deal.  once I started working on something, it became clear how much work it was going to take to make any progress and I felt overwhelmed.  I started feeling really emotional like I needed to cry.  its so frustrating to look around at all of the cool products I've put a ton of work into and now I can barely do anything without getting overwhelmed.  I guess its good that I can feel somewhat normal and not in emotional pain if I don't push myself.  thats a lot better than the torment I used to be in when I was just trying to keep my sanity and make it through an unbearably miserable day.  I just wish I could get some ambition and mental toughness back.  I thank god I have a business that can essentially run without me as I'm not sure I would be able to work for someone right now.  its hard when I'm trying to accomplish something to not compare myself to where I used to be and where I want to get.  where I actually had intrinsic motivation to work and make progress toward goals.  everything seems pointless and overwhelming.  when I have a flicker of motivation, it gets extinguished so easily when I try to do something with it.  

[fishinghat]

I remember that stage. You don't feel too bad and you thing you should be able to do something. Your motivation is low and if you try a little work on something you just slip back into a highly emotional state. You will get there but don't push it too hard. i started out working on something simple for 15 minutes and then after a week kicked it up to 15 minutes twice a day. etc, until I got use to things and my brain settled down a lot more. 

[frog]

I think I'm in a similar phase. My therapist talks to me a lot about the pressure I put on myself, which I see now I do constantly. Although she hasn't offered any advice on how to better ease off it. I guess noticing it is the first step though if you're going to try to break out of something that's a subconscious process. 

 

Anyway the pressure I put on myself is to do the things I was excited to do when we first moved to California: being outdoors a lot more, socializing with new people and making friends, exploring more. When I've had some scary moments in the past year with regard to my GI problems, if it happens when I'm out of the house I start to get extremely panicky. I think my body has now been conditioned to panic when I'm out of the house and there's even the tiniest bit of discomfort with my gut. If I even start to think about leaving the house I get scared of having a repeat experience and it creates a second layer of panic. If I remove the pressure of needing to go out into the world and do things, I feel better. But it makes me scared that if I keep that up I will never be able to go outside without freaking out so I feel the need to push myself to do it

[Mxpro32]

I'm always torn too between taking it easy and trying not to let my stress spike too much so I can heal, and wondering if I should be pushing it a little to acclimate to the stress.  so far, any attempt to push it spirals me into depression or being emotionally overwhelmed.  I don't think its an anxiety due to avoidance thing, but it does feel a little like conditioning.  I've associated certain things with freaking out, and working in my shop is one of them.  in that regard I wonder if exposure to the stressor would help.  on the other hand, I think if my nerves are able to heal and calm down, I will be better equipped to tackle things like that.  I think I'm having standard benzo withdrawals lately.  I am on the constant lookout for threats.  I can't see anything positive, and the future seems gloomy and scary.  if I'm able to not entertain those thoughts too much, I can feel decent as long as I don't push myself.  so I guess I'm still stuck wondering how much control is really possible at this point, and what the best step forward would be.  either way, I'm struggling having compassion for myself.  when I struggle in the shop it spirals due to comparisons of how productive I used to be.  I can't just accept my current state of productivity without beating myself.  

[fishinghat]

Pushing it is seldom of benefit. It just adds more stress and causes that downward spiral. With time things will get easier. Have to heal in order to have the strength to move forward.

[invalidusername]

I remember some 2 years back when Hat said the exact same thing to me...

 

MX - This certainly is tough, but it will come around. For me, your "products" was my car. Prior to my episode, I had put so much work into developing it into one of the finest cars on the road. I tweaked the engine, made everything lightweight, uprated everything, but I would get that same thing like you say. A small spark when I looked out the window every morning and look at the car, but it would soon extinguish. There was no enthusiasm and all the time I had put in seemed like a waste. 

But let me tell you... I look out the window every morning now, and I am in awe of it again! I am back actively finding things to do on it! There is still the odd day here and there, but this is life. If you were happy every day, you wouldn't be human, you'd be a game show host (if anyone remembers the classic 80's flick... I quote Winona Ryder there!).

 

FROG - This is textbook. Your brain is supposed to do that. It is build to recognise such things - regardless of whether they are good or bad for us. The problem is the anxiety that occurs when there is no threat. Whilst there is a threat, the only thing you have in your arsenal is to let it be. The more you fight it, the worse you will make it.

 

For the times where there is not threat, just talk back to your anxiety... "bring it on bitch!"... "do your worst!". Tough for sure, but following the work of Claire Weekes, this is a way to get past it. 

[invalidusername]

Pushing it is seldom of benefit. It just adds more stress and causes that downward spiral. With time things will get easier. Have to heal in order to have the strength to move forward.

 

Exceptionally wise words, Hat.

[Mxpro32]

last night I had my hopes up for a good nights sleep, as I was sleepy all day with almost no anxiety.  I went to sleep peaceful at 12:30 and woke up 5 hours later wide awake with no anxiety.  while its nice to wake up without anxiety, its a little discouraging that the insomnia isn't caused by the anxiety.  I thought if I got it under control I would sleep well.  now I'm thinking its still related to the cymbalta and not my klonopin withdrawal.  who knows.  I'm trying not to be too frustrated, but with my lower dose of concerta, I actually feel sleepy and exhausted all day when I don't sleep well.  

[fishinghat]

How long since the last drop in benzo?