1191 replies to this topic

[Lovey]

mxpro I reqd your post. Thinking and praying for you. I am experiencing a really intense kind of loneliness. I need to actively seek out my friendships and share myself with others....even if i feel extremely awkward and like i am being a bummer. that is true sometimes but they are usually able to lift me out of the funk I may be in and I gotta try. I am in a new setting until Sunday dogsitting and housewatching for a friend about 30 mins from home. Lonliness is not for humans. We are designed to be with others. I continue to work on reintegration and rehabilitation. Even a one hour visit makes a big impact. Life is not meant to be lived alone. Sending heart felt love to all.

[fishinghat]

Mxpro the intensity will fade with time. Still a lot of swings in emotion for you but it will get better.

[frog]

Lovey I think you're on the right track. I've read a tiny bit of research findings about the complex ways our brains are designed to make us crave social interaction, primarily through a hormone called oxytocin. For those with typical brains, the oxytocin makes social interactions pleasurable and thanks to dopamine we then crave them more and more. Some think that for those with autistic brains, the social interaction is seen as painful, maybe because of low oxytocin, and as a result they are less likely to seek out further social interaction. Or something like that! It's obviously super complex and the science on all this stuff is super emerging. Just thought it was interesting

[fishinghat]

You did very well frog. I am proud of you. 

 

What you described is the brain function for a extrovert. That chemical reaction is what makes them an extravert. It is interesting to not that a true introvert *I am one0 does not receive pleasure from personal contacts and can lead a very solitary life.  I have lead a very solitary life and though I have few friends (I talk to my close friends about 1 every 3 years) I greatly appreciate their friendship. I value the life and happiness of all people including ones I don't like. I just don't desire personal contact that much. 

 

Hint: No dopamine release.  lol

[Lovey]

Guys this is super interesting stuff! I believe that I fall pretty well in the middle. I have always loathed the introvert/extrovert label because I am truly neither. Its not an either or in my case, and in the case of many, but rather a scale, or spectrum if you like. In hats case, you my friend do truly sound like a real introvert so to speak;) For me I really need solitude, especially at this particular time in my healing journey...AND at the same time, I crave human interaction and bonding. I never bonded properly with parents or due to their illnesses and I am now in the throes of healing....

[Lovey]

I never bonded properly with my parents due to their unavailability and illnesses is what I meant to say. Slight typo. Thanks again I am enjoying talking to u guys here again, as I am badly in need of some more interaction!

[invalidusername]

As you say H, this is a very interesting turn of conversation.

 

For my part, I think I also fall into both, and I think it is the chemicals which change with my mood. When I am "normal", I can take it or leave it (interaction), I can often be found doing art, music, movies - quite solitary stuff, but when I am low, I need more interaction and I find very little - if any - pleasure in the above.

 

Stray strong dear one.

[Lovey]

Iun thank you. I'm in Siberia here.

[Mxpro32]

my brother mentioned something to me yesterday that I hadnt considered.  I have been really hard on myself throughout this process for being weak and not functioning to my potential.  he pointed out that I've actually been really strong by sticking this out even though its the hardest thing I've ever done.  he said hes impressed how I've never considered going back on meds to alleviate the pain short term.  it really made me feel good that he noticed.  it also made me realize I'm much stronger than I give myself credit for, and even in my weakened state, I would do whatever is required of me if push came to shove.  in other words, I feared I was too weak to handle adversity if it had come, but I know now that I'm not one to give up ever.  its just not an option.

[Lovey]

Yes that's a great realization! Very good to hear mxpro!!

[invalidusername]

Iun thank you. I'm in Siberia here.

 

Metaphorical?! 

[invalidusername]

my brother mentioned something to me yesterday that I hadnt considered.  I have been really hard on myself throughout this process for being weak and not functioning to my potential.  he pointed out that I've actually been really strong by sticking this out even though its the hardest thing I've ever done.  he said hes impressed how I've never considered going back on meds to alleviate the pain short term.  it really made me feel good that he noticed.  it also made me realize I'm much stronger than I give myself credit for, and even in my weakened state, I would do whatever is required of me if push came to shove.  in other words, I feared I was too weak to handle adversity if it had come, but I know now that I'm not one to give up ever.  its just not an option.

 

Wonderful that this is noticed in you. Sometimes knowing that you have an option is enough not to have to take that route. It is often when you cannot see a way ahead that we grasp at anything within our reach. Through some of the darkest days of my depression, I got through knowing that I had a number to call and someone from the crisis team would turn up within an hour or two. 

 

Keep going MX... you're doing great.

[frog]

Mxpro I agree with your brother completely. I have noticed the same in myself. It is often the things that are negotiable (where there's an option to not do it I guess) that I get the most scared and talk myself out of wanting or doing, and then beat myself up about. Whenever it's something nonnegotiable, like say when I was 2 weeks into withdrawal, barely functioning, and had to start a new job, I still rise to the challenge. When I looked back on it recently, I still have no idea how I did that. But I think it's the kind of person I've always been anyway just like I'm sure you were before this. When something has to be done you just suck it all up and just do it. I also really empathize with being hard on yourself. My therapist and I have broached the topic a bit recently and I hope to dig more into it. I grew up in a culture where tough love parenting is common for kids and as much as I have 0 doubts that my family loves me and meant well I think I really internalized the constant criticism and am impatient and hard on myself relentlessly. When my therapist offers that I should try to be more compassionate with myself, I'm not sure I even know what that means or what that looks like?

 

Regarding the introvert question, I think I'm an introverted extrovert? LOL. I definitely walk away from social interaction feeling fulfilled and happier, but also a bit exhausted after. However I can't go too long without it either or I start to feel isolated and depressed. It's been hard with the pandemic

[Lovey]

Yes a metaphor. FEELS LIKE SIBERIA. ACTUALLY IN THE USA.... not sure which is better jk...its tough not having family to lean on. I am building on my frienships as much as possible. Proud of all of us on here.

[Mxpro32]

Mxpro I agree with your brother completely. I have noticed the same in myself. It is often the things that are negotiable (where there's an option to not do it I guess) that I get the most scared and talk myself out of wanting or doing, and then beat myself up about. Whenever it's something nonnegotiable, like say when I was 2 weeks into withdrawal, barely functioning, and had to start a new job, I still rise to the challenge. When I looked back on it recently, I still have no idea how I did that. But I think it's the kind of person I've always been anyway just like I'm sure you were before this. When something has to be done you just suck it all up and just do it. I also really empathize with being hard on yourself. My therapist and I have broached the topic a bit recently and I hope to dig more into it. I grew up in a culture where tough love parenting is common for kids and as much as I have 0 doubts that my family loves me and meant well I think I really internalized the constant criticism and am impatient and hard on myself relentlessly. When my therapist offers that I should try to be more compassionate with myself, I'm not sure I even know what that means or what that looks like?

 

Regarding the introvert question, I think I'm an introverted extrovert? LOL. I definitely walk away from social interaction feeling fulfilled and happier, but also a bit exhausted after. However I can't go too long without it either or I start to feel isolated and depressed. It's been hard with the pandemic

being self employed makes that tough.  everything takes will power because it is optional in the short term.  I don't know how to do self compassion either.  I try to take it easy on myself, but my fears of being screwed if I don't push myself really hard always take over.  as if I can't afford to be easy on myself, when really I can.  

 

I always considered myself an extrovert because I love being social and the life of the party, but my counselor said she thinks I'm an introvert.  I definitely need my alone down time to recharge my batteries.  its been really hard having my wife home all the time for this reason.  

[Lovey]

It's an interesting point of self discovery. It looks like a lot of us are re-examining and reassessing where we fall on the spectrum. I enjoy other's company and need others to talk to. AND I need my alone time to reflect, recharge, and create. As I observe, its not an either/ or. It also changes with the day. These ideas and terms are helpful in opening discussions about personality attributes but as humans, we are too complex to be labeled as one or the other in my opinion.

[Lovey]

Hi, I am alive. Anyone else around?

[fishinghat]

Just checking in one last time for the day. You OK?

[invalidusername]

I'm still here... 2am in the UK - just had supper

[Lovey]

Hi fh and iun....I am ok. Needed to have some connection....thanks for responding...

I went to our home owners association meeting tonight for nearly 2 hours. SO hot plus the mask. I am very pleased with myself for making it thru with grace and speaking on the issue that needed to be addressed. I made moves on some small art works on paper today too. Slow but steady rebuilding ...good talk sesh with counselor on the phone.
IUN nobody here calls it supper but I do!! funny! What's on the menu for tonight?

[invalidusername]

Hey H!!

 

Still going at 3am... only just had supper. I was very very lazy. I had a pizza but with a bunch of salad. Really shouldn't eat sat fats (cheese) this late, but nothing else would have cooked in short time. So much work to do today - next two days looking equally as busy. Going to be one of those weeks.

 

Sounds like you have been quite busy yourself - and well done for the meeting, and wearing a mask in this weather would have made me very uncomfortable for sure.

 

Supper can also be used to refer to a light snack before one sleeps, but then it can be used as the word to denote the last large meal of the day. I am strictly three squares a day, and if I feel peckish during the day, I have a stash of nuts and dried fruit. I just take a handful of that for a boost.

 

Good to hear that you also started out on more art works!!

[Mxpro32]

when I'm having anxiety, the mask make it much worse.  everything covid related makes it much worse actually.  I do best when I try to pretend it doesn't exist and go about my business.  I'm always drawn in to researching the latest though, and my anxiety spikes.  I'm trying to limit my exposure to all things apocalypse, and limit the time I give to negative thoughts.  it works when Im able to do it.  

 

funny story.  last night I went to sleep at 1am and woke up at 5.  I laid there in bed trying to relax and let the anxiety dissipate.  I like to do this so I can start my day peacefully instead of panicked.  some days it works better than others.  well this morning I was finally feeling relaxed and peaceful, and a teenager whipped around our cul de sac and lost control and plowed through our dry creek, hitting a bunch of bolders and knocked our sago palm down.  well, I jumped up with a start!  there went the peaceful start to the day lol. 

[frog]

Holy moly. That's quite the wake up call. 

 

Agreed about mask anxiety. I think it has something to do with it making it tougher to breathe. When I'm having a lot of anxiety, I have a lot of tightness in my chest and my breathing feels more labored, and I think with the mask on it feels similar. And that makes me anxious. Plus it gets hot under there. Seriously the most glorious feeling is ripping off that mask and feeling some fresh, cool air on my face. 

 

The pandemic is really hard to grapple with. I just don't see a way in which my anxiety can calm down for good with so much uncertainty going on. Whether I research it or not, I already feel convinced that nothing's going back to normal for a long long time. I won't feel "normal" until I can go back to the office and that's not happening until maybe October at this point, though even that feels impossible at this point to be honest. 

I imagine it feels a little different for those who have homes with yards and whatnot, but my husband and I live in a teeny one bedroom apartment. It's tough. 

[Mxpro32]

we have an acre lot with a bunch of concrete for the kids to ride on, a bunch of grass, a trampoline, a play structure, an rc track, and it still sucks.  for one thing its so damn hot (over 100 degrees) we can't do anything outside.  I am so ready for the world to be normal and all of the uncertainty to calm down.  the indefinite nature of the pandemic is really hard to accept.  it feels like my cymbalta withdrawal all over again, with no definite end date.  with all of the civil unrest, it feels like we may never return to normal.  it sounds petty, but fall and college football is my favorite time of the year.  I was really looking forward to it to help me feel normal and give me something to look forward to, now college football is going to be cancelled.  our school district made plans for kids to go back to school for half days, then our governor made the decree that in classroom school wasn't allowed.  my kids are getting so bored, and I'm concerned about how far behind they will be.  my daughter may not be able to go to kindergarten.  it just feels like were in a holding pattern.  all of this adds to the anxiety of the new kid on the way.  we don't know what the world is going to be like, what we are going to do for daycare, etc.  

 

I talked with my psychiatrist a couple days ago.  I told him how my klonopin taper was going, and how I'd like to drop a dose on my concerta.  he said he knows I want to get off of my meds, but hes concerned my anxiety will be too bad once I'm off of the klonopin.  you can tell he has zero faith its possible for me to be ok without meds.  it sucks to hear that when thats already one of my concerns.  I can't believe I'm back to sleeping 4-5 hours again.  it started when I got the baby news, but thats also when this pandemic crap was picking up steam. I have so little motivation lately.  I can't make myself do anything I'm supposed to do.  I can barely find anything I want to do at all.  of course, I tend to get that way when I'm not sleeping.  it just sucks to be struggling still.  

[Mxpro32]

fh.  I was just reading about benzo titration, and they are all saying to make the mix, remove what you aren't going to take and discard it.  I've been making the mix, keeping it in a container and just removing the amount I want to take and saving the rest for tomorrow.  is there anything wrong with doing it that way?

[fishinghat]

Discard it? No sense in doing that. I and many others have been doing this for years with no issues. 

[frog]

we have an acre lot with a bunch of concrete for the kids to ride on, a bunch of grass, a trampoline, a play structure, an rc track, and it still sucks.  for one thing its so damn hot (over 100 degrees) we can't do anything outside.  I am so ready for the world to be normal and all of the uncertainty to calm down.  the indefinite nature of the pandemic is really hard to accept.  it feels like my cymbalta withdrawal all over again, with no definite end date.  with all of the civil unrest, it feels like we may never return to normal.  it sounds petty, but fall and college football is my favorite time of the year.  I was really looking forward to it to help me feel normal and give me something to look forward to, now college football is going to be cancelled.  our school district made plans for kids to go back to school for half days, then our governor made the decree that in classroom school wasn't allowed.  my kids are getting so bored, and I'm concerned about how far behind they will be.  my daughter may not be able to go to kindergarten.  it just feels like were in a holding pattern.  all of this adds to the anxiety of the new kid on the way.  we don't know what the world is going to be like, what we are going to do for daycare, etc.  

 

I talked with my psychiatrist a couple days ago.  I told him how my klonopin taper was going, and how I'd like to drop a dose on my concerta.  he said he knows I want to get off of my meds, but hes concerned my anxiety will be too bad once I'm off of the klonopin.  you can tell he has zero faith its possible for me to be ok without meds.  it sucks to hear that when thats already one of my concerns.  I can't believe I'm back to sleeping 4-5 hours again.  it started when I got the baby news, but thats also when this pandemic crap was picking up steam. I have so little motivation lately.  I can't make myself do anything I'm supposed to do.  I can barely find anything I want to do at all.  of course, I tend to get that way when I'm not sleeping.  it just sucks to be struggling still.  

 

Maybe your psychiatrist meant that with everything going on right now with the pandemic and all the other things you mentioned that this may not be an ideal time to come off meds that may be alleviating some of the burden? Just a possibility. However I think I do find that psychiatrists are like any other doctor, they prefer to medicate things. it's what they're taught to do. If you don't already I would really recommend seeking out a therapist that you connect with to help you find the compassion you're looking for. I've found mine to be nothing but accepting of all the things I've been telling her about my situation. Maybe she logs off and says "what a bunch of crap!' but at least to my face she seems extremely sympathetic and validating. It's truly been indispensable at times to have that when you're not finding it in other places in your life. 

 

With that said your house sounds amazing! But it's hard to find enjoyment in things when you're stressed and overwhelmed. I'm often terrible at taking this advice, but you have to try to only worry about the things you can control. Maybe you can try identifying some ways you can take control of the situation? For example if you can't figure out daycare can you do a nanny share? My downstairs neighbors have been doing one all through the pandemic. I know I have a tendency to catastrophize situations in my head and it leads me into a spiral of stress and overwhelm. Identifying next steps or alternative solutions always helps to dispel the lack of control... like oh yeah... I'm actually still in control of the situation. 

[Lovey]

frog!!! great advice!! Thank you. I catastrophize as well and am practicing de-escalating the situation or scenarios. I am exhausted. I love reading y'alls thoughts on here. Siberia is a lonely place ...I got to talk with a good funny friend tonight on the tele and it was wonderful. Trauma therapy tomorrow. Excited to take some more steps forward recovering my self. Digging into attachment and such. Love to all of you!

[Mxpro32]

Maybe your psychiatrist meant that with everything going on right now with the pandemic and all the other things you mentioned that this may not be an ideal time to come off meds that may be alleviating some of the burden? Just a possibility. However I think I do find that psychiatrists are like any other doctor, they prefer to medicate things. it's what they're taught to do. If you don't already I would really recommend seeking out a therapist that you connect with to help you find the compassion you're looking for. I've found mine to be nothing but accepting of all the things I've been telling her about my situation. Maybe she logs off and says "what a bunch of crap!' but at least to my face she seems extremely sympathetic and validating. It's truly been indispensable at times to have that when you're not finding it in other places in your life. 

 

With that said your house sounds amazing! But it's hard to find enjoyment in things when you're stressed and overwhelmed. I'm often terrible at taking this advice, but you have to try to only worry about the things you can control. Maybe you can try identifying some ways you can take control of the situation? For example if you can't figure out daycare can you do a nanny share? My downstairs neighbors have been doing one all through the pandemic. I know I have a tendency to catastrophize situations in my head and it leads me into a spiral of stress and overwhelm. Identifying next steps or alternative solutions always helps to dispel the lack of control... like oh yeah... I'm actually still in control of the situation. 

its possible thats what he meant, but I don't think so.  hes the one that told me I would most likely need to be on meds the rest of my life when I came in with my withdrawal symptoms.  I've got a therapist I like, though it feels like I'm not getting anywhere a lot of the time.  lately it seems the thing that stresses me out the most is my own mental health.  I don't have motivation to do anything, and the vacuum is really uncomfortable and distressing.  I feel like I'm getting depressed again, and that always makes me question if I'm ever going to get better, or if life without meds will always be a struggle.  covid probably has something to do with it, but I'm back in a place where I can't see a future.  I simultaneously focus on the big picture (can't believe I'm already 40, life goes so fast), and I can only see my hand in front of my face and can't see a positive future.  I'm trying to just enjoy the moment, but I'm so antsy thats not easy.  the lack of sleep always makes all of this worse too.  I slept a whole 5 hours last night.  I guess thats better than 4 hours.  thats whats frustrating, my anxiety depression and insomnia are all back when I thought they were mostly behind me. 

 

we do enjoy our house and property.  I should feel extremely blessed with the life I get to live, but the fact I can't enjoy this perfect life is pretty frustrating.  I just mustered up the motivation and made a giant movie screen thats 9 feet tall and 16 feet wide that I can put up and take down by myself in 10 minutes.  I bought a projector on ebay that was $8000 when it was new 6 years ago.  i paid 300 for it.  it looks like a legit movie its so bright.  I plan on having friends over for outdoor movie night.  

[frog]

if it's any consolation i never needed anxiety or depression medication before I went on Cymbalta and before I suffered from this withdrawal in November, and now I also find myself constantly fretting that the only way to stop suffering from daily anxiety would be to start taking something. So I certainly don't think this is any reflection of your "natural state" 

 

But I do often question if I've just permanently screwed myself up now. 

 

I also have a lot of "situational" anxiety about and related to the IBS that I can't get under control. I feel like I'm in a constant inner battle between desperately wanting to do things I know I would enjoy like driving a couple hours away and taking in some scenery or going on a walk somewhere in this beautiful area we live in, and then terror over the possibility of being caught on the road or on a trail or in traffic with a sudden issue. So I end up with a lot of I guess... anticipatory anxiety. It sounds crazy but sometimes I'll even be watching TV and seeing people doing things around town, riding bikes, picnicking, whatever, and I get anxious as I imagine myself in those situations and how scary it would be. I've been managing things better through a combination of fiber supplements and a little bit of Imodium, but I've yet to regain a feeling of comfort or safety still. I have an appt finally with a GI doctor in a week and a half, but I've had enough experiences with seeking medical help and getting no answers at this point, that I'm unable to get my hopes up too much. I'm dreading having the doctor basically shrug their shoulders again. I know there's a couple of drugs out there for IBS-D as well but reading about them has not made me excited either. One got taken off the market almost immediately after it came out in the late 90s because of adverse reactions and the other is some type of opioid... sigh.