1191 replies to this topic

[invalidusername]

you were still having this response from cymbalta 9 months out?

 

Absolutely. I quit November 2018 and I didn't start getting to grips with the stress until around September 2019. But yes, the other meds will of course influence to some degree and one symptom will often trigger others I have found.

 

its like a lack of serotonin. 

 

Could be, but more likely that it is an inconsistency of serotonin as you balance is clearly off at the moment, just as one was. Unfortunately these things can take time. Just like my lovely Gail, I was only on the damn stuff for 10 weeks...

[Mxpro32]

That's only 10 months. Was that a typo, or was your stress better at 10 months?

[invalidusername]

Started noticing an improvement around this 10 month mark...

[Mxpro32]

Started noticing an improvement around this 10 month mark...

hopefully thats the same with me. my anxiety has been out of control all day long this week, instead of just when I wake up.  its starting to make me depressed.  I don't feel like doing anything except trying to escape this feeling.  I've been waking up like a light after 5 hours of sleep, so I usually stay up late so I don't wake up in the middle of the night.  the last two days I went to sleep at 11 and woke up at 4 and can't go back to sleep.  when I wake up at 4, its not because I'm anxious, I just jolt awake like I used to earlier in my withdrawals.  I've been laying in bed for hours trying to sleep, then around 7 or so the anxiety sets in.  basically the anxiety sets in around seven no matter what time I wake up.  i'm really tired and I feel like crying all the time and the anxiety is so strong.  its really disappointing to go backward on the insomnia and anxiety.  I'm so anxious I can't enjoy anything.    

[invalidusername]

This does still sound familiar, although I didn't have it quite that bad at 9 months; I had some days between of respite. I really feel for you. 

 

Because of the nature of the situation I refused going near any more medication as it would just further confuse the situation. Meditation and Kratom came to my rescue initially - it gave me the support where I most needed it. Whilst I maintain the meditation as best I can, the Kratom doses are not needed quite so much. 

 

Meditation takes time to get used to, but when I get those mornings myself, I can usually get back to sleep with some breathing and visualisation. 

 

The depression will naturally follow the course. I am very fortunate that my anxiety is more or less under control, but the depression is still there and I need to be aware of what I do every day to control it. Stress of work and primarily the stress of looking after the wife with significant mental health problems leaves me constantly in a state of vulnerability. 

[Mxpro32]

I'm waking up in total fear.  I feel as if all my fears and worries are coming true, even though they aren't.  I feel depressed too, but not normal depression, i feel like you would feel if you were losing everything.  like mourning what you had mixed with feeling like the future is completely unpredictable and nothing will work out in your favor.  I feel like crawling in bed and sleeping or crying, but my insomnia only lets me sleep 5-6 hours so there is no escape.  my brain is working overtime to find the threat, and when it lands on a potential culprit my anxiety goes even more nuts.  the kicker is, everything is going well for me.  I just feel like its all crashing down.  I've been doing the water titration method with the klonopin.  I bumped up from the .1mg I was on for a week to .12mg and its not helping.  of course, I was measuring the .1mg with my wacky scale so who knows.  

[fishinghat]

Benzos are weird. Only 50% of those who increase dose during weaning see an improvement. My experience in the past was that it takes around 2 weeks to stabilize. I know that feeling and it is terrible. Just be patient. It will get better. 

[Lovey]

Hi fishinghat I sent you a message can you please look when you see this. Thank you. Also for reference

[Mxpro32]

Benzos are weird. Only 50% of those who increase dose during weaning see an improvement. My experience in the past was that it takes around 2 weeks to stabilize. I know that feeling and it is terrible. Just be patient. It will get better. 

so now I just have a little further to ween since I upped the dose?  I guess I'm ok with that since I wasn't sure the water titration would translate to the same dose I was taking from the scale doses and I didn't want to lower the dose even further since my symptoms were so bad.  I was talking to a friend who has taken klonopin for years and I can tell he doesn't really believe the dose drops are responsible for my symptoms.  he says he goes from 2 mg to 1mg depending on how bad his anxiety is with no ill effect.  

[fishinghat]

It depends on the person. I was on Klonopin for 2 years. I could go from 1 mg to 2 mg to 3 mg and see no benefit. They even wanted to go straight to 6 mg. This was before I knew about water titration. It took me over a week to wean off and even the slowest drop was hell. If your friend could do this he was extremely lucky. 

[fishinghat]

I watched that video and found it very interesting. I do agree that a SPECT image should be taken on most psych patients unless the symptoms are due to a one time stress event with associated symptoms. There is a couple of issues here. First SPECT Scans are not consistant for the different psychiatric illnesses. He is right that there is an associated appearance of the brain but it does vary and that can also lead to wrong diagnosis. However, combining a Spect Scan with symptom diagnosis is a logical step. Another problem is doin g scans, especially routine scans to see if there is improvement, can significantly increase the risk of brain cancer (nearly always fatal). That risk has been estimated as a 2 to 5% increase in cancer occurring.  Those are tough choices for sure. Also he mentioned "brain recovery therapy". I have not ever heard of such a thing . Certainly if the scan shows a tumor or cyst it may be operable but otherwise most things like OCD, drug abuse damage, etc can only be treated symptomatically. Certainly Spect scans and blood panels should be given more consideration  by psychologists. The ebook has a list of blood tests that SHOULD be routine for psych patients. About 7 to 10% of all psych diagnoses can be tracked back to blood imbalances. We see figures close to that among our nenmbers.

[frog]

Mxpro, I am of the anecdotal opinion that because of the havoc wreaked on our nervous systems by coming off Cymbalta too fast, we are very sensitized to internal changes, from medication or otherwise. If you feel like your body's ability to cope with stress has suffered through this experience, and things that would otherwise not throw you off balance, are, then I think it stands to reason that medication can do the same. Maybe if you had never gone through the withdrawal youd be like your friend able to bounce around with ease, but now you're sensitized to changes. I wouldn't give much thought to what your friend thinks. He hasn't been through what you've been through so it's comparing apples and oranges in my opinion. 

[fishinghat]

I beleive your theory is 100% valid frog. It really does increase the sensitivity to stress. 

[Mxpro32]

I know for a fact my body is sensitive to everything.  I used to drink 2 cups of coffee a day, and now I can't drink it at all.  I can barely drink alcohol without having a lot of anxiety.  this last bout feels more like a cymbalta wave than the klonopin withdrawal.  the insomnia feels like classic cymbalta withdrawal, as does the depression thats coming along with the anxiety.  I've got the same hopeless feeling that I'm broken and will be like this forever.  

[frog]

I was never a big coffee drinker, but I had a cup recently (granted it was very strong, because my husband made it) I was bugging out for like 2 days. Coffee raises your adrenaline, so it's really no surprise. No coffee for me. 

 

Alcohol waxes and wanes for me. Sometimes I drink it and I feel some anxiety, other times it does what I want it to do and unwinds and relaxes me from all the tension. When it works, it's the best!

[invalidusername]

Poor Froggy!! I can well imagine how that must have made you feel.

 

The only time I had a cup of tea was when I was last in hospital and I was having to stay awake all night. Hospital tea is like dishwater anyway, but even that did the trick for staying up 48 hours!!

 

Still never going near alcohol. Not for me...

[frog]

I enjoy drinking, especially socially (not that there's much of that happening these days) and it works wonders to wind down when I'm feeling anxious or tense. But yeah these days sometimes it has the reverse effect. Haven't found any rhyme or reason to it, so I just keep trying lol

[invalidusername]

I can well believe that! Rarely do these things have meaning.

 

I just stick with Kratom on occasion when I really need to calm down. I know it isn't everyone's choice, but in moderation, it is better for me than more medication or alcohol. Not that I condone the use of alcohol in moderation of course. Just isn't for me. 

[Mxpro32]

I enjoy drinking, especially socially (not that there's much of that happening these days) and it works wonders to wind down when I'm feeling anxious or tense. But yeah these days sometimes it has the reverse effect. Haven't found any rhyme or reason to it, so I just keep trying lol

there are times when I can have a drink too.  more often than not I'm paying for it with anxiety about 45 minutes after.  I wish I could drink, because it was nice to unwind once in a while.  

 

I'm back to second guessing if I'm ever going to be better, or if life is going to be a constant day to day struggle.  if I knew I was going to get better, it would be a lot easier to have patience.  whenever I have a big backslide like this, its very discouraging.  I'm really anxious, pretty depressed, and my insomnia is back with a vengeance.  almost as bad as it was during the peak of hell.  I just feel like crying and giving up, but not functioning and taking care of everything gives me so much anxiety I can't.  I wish I could at least sleep peacefully through the night.  as it is, i feel like I never get a break from feeling terrible.  I'm terrified of every possible bad thing that could happen, I'm depressed and don't feel like doing anything at all, which stresses me out because I feel like the bad things are more likely to happen if I'm not functioning.  my wife is working from home all the time, so I never get alone time to recharge.  the kids are home too, and they are being adorable, but I have no energy for them so i'm always trying to fake it and that is draining too.  I'm trying not to be the bummer dad.  on top of it all, I've got the new one on the way and I'm worried I won't be better by then to be a good dad and enjoy the experience.  I'm having the hardest time picturing a positive future.  I always feel like something terrible is going to happen and I can't let my guard down.  I did have a really good couple of days at the beach last weekend, so I guess there is hope, but it was followed by the worst week and a half I've had in a while.  

[Lovey]

I just wantedto say hi to everyone. I read a bit of this thread. I am ok. Struggling with an increase in sound and light sensitivity. No changes in cymbalta decrease since Feb 2020. I am very troubled. Considering trying to get some type of brain imaging done. I have had 5, yes 5 TBIs in my life. I am not sure what brain rehab can be done but I hope there's something out there to help me normalize the way I perceive information. Everything is too loud and too bright a lot of the time, especially in stores.

[fishinghat]

Do what you have to do Lovey. We are always here to help in anyway we can.

[Lovey]

fh thank you. Can you copy paste the portion of the ebook with the blood toxins to check. I'm going to search now but my appt is at 6pm and just making sure as I wld like to speak to her regarding this as well. If you have the time and energy.

[frog]

Mxpro I've felt this way over and over through this whole process. I still constantly get caught in the trap of feeling a bit better and starting to feel optimistic about the future, about recovery, about one day making social plans without being burdened by anxiety and panic the whole way. And then I'll get a stretch of days where I'm miserable again and in a hole. In disbelief that after 9 months it's possible that my brain is still in 'recovery', doubting that it's even "recovering" any more, assuming it's now just stuck this way, and that my IBS will never get under control again to where I can go outside without fear. All those fears feel every bit as real every time, but I think it's fascinating that they do go away for stretches. I guess it's interesting that we're able to hold both of those types of thoughts in our minds simultaneously and sometimes one set emerges to the front, and sometimes the other. So it's still exactly like before, on the bad days, the adrenaline isn't as well controlled, and the fear is more prominent; on the good days the brain is managing better and the fear is on the back burner. But I feel like in the beginning, I went at least a couple months if not more without so much as a full good, easy day. Now I think the better days on average are about as common as the bad days, and maybe as time goes on the good days will even outnumber the ones, and maybe the good ones even will get better and easier? 

Then again I say all this in the middle of a stretch of "easier" days, so ask me again in a week. LOL

 

 

I'll just re-state what FH said, if things are still in flux, then things are still changing. As in, if you're still having up periods along with your down periods, then it suggests our brains aren't done calibrating. If a few more months go by, and every day is roughly the same, then you might have hit the ceiling. FH please correct me if I misinterpreted. 

[fishinghat]

Items proceeded by an asterisk are analysis that are routinely performed by many Psychiatrists.

Omega 3 and 6

Amino Acids

to include...

Tryptophan

Threonine

Isoleucine

Methionine

Phenylalanine

Tyrosine

 

Vitamins

to include...

C

*D

E

*B vitamins

 

 

Minerals

Calcium

Iron

Magnesium

Potassium 

Sodium

Zinc

Manganese

Selenium

 

Lipid Profile

Cholesterol

Triglycerides

 

Misc.

Choline

Flouride

 

Psychiatrists also often perform the following tests

Testosterone

Estrogen

*Thyroid Function

Liver Function - (FH - The AD manufacturers usually recommend an annual Liver Function Test (LFT) to keep an eye on that issue. 

Parathyroid Function

Pituitary Function

[fishinghat]

You are exactly right frog.

[Lovey]

mxpro, frog, I am right there with you, a variety of good-bad days, and stretches of time including both. I have made zero changes in 5 months and I am still adjusting....still on 18/18 beads per day. a.m. dose and p.m. dose of 18 beads. Hat, once you were totally off the cymbalta how long till you felt stability and equalized, successfylly recalibrated ? Is there an average you observed. iun maybe has insight as well or anyone for that matter. I am having more visual problems and auditory processing problems. A lot of overwhelm, and very high anxiety. I am utilizing xanax carefully, as needed. I welcome any feedback. Thank you for pulling up that info fh. Ideally, I would love to get all those items checked. We will see how it goes tonight at my 6pm appt via tele medicine with my General Practitioner. Asking for a neurological referral and bloodwork panel. Bless you all and lots of love.

[invalidusername]

Frog - that was a class bit of prose there. Just like I said earlier in another post - you are gifted with the words. I could really feel myself back a while ago when all this was happening to me. 

 

The worst part is wanted to start planning stuff and be confident that you will be in the right mindset and physically able to follow it through. You always feel that your life is controlled completely by the withdrawal. You never know until you are there yourself. Telling people who have never done the anti depressant sh*t is futile. It simply cannot be imagined. It has to be lived.

 

H... sorry... Lovey (I have got that stuck in my head still!), we have serotonin receptors all over our head. People often think it is just all stuffed into the frontal cortex and the lobes, but they are all over the place, which is why hearing and vision can be affected. We have had many a user complain of vision problems. In fact, I think it was around last Christmas when we suddenly had an influx of them all at once. I fortunately didn't have either, but during my time here on the forum I can tell you that it is quite common. 

 

Much love and blessings to both my girls!!

[Lovey]

Dr appt. went well. Very well in fact. Got a neurology referral and we are going to do some bloodwork. Thanks again everyone!! Special shout out to fh for pulling up all that specific data on such quick return.

I am being mindful to practice at self love and compassion and self care. I painted today, journaled and cooked a nice meal for myself. My insurance i think does cover neurofeedback which may be an Avenue of use to me also. xo

[fishinghat]

"I am being mindful to practice at self love and compassion and self care."

 

Very good idea.

[Mxpro32]

well, I feel like the lights are starting to flicker back on.  I went from nondescript overwhelming anxiety and depression, to real emotions flooding back in.  its a bit overwhelming, but it feels real and I'll take it over what I was feeling.  I've had some tears and it felt good.  I try to remind myself that these emotions, even though they can be a bit overwhelming are a blessing.  on cymbalta I wasn't capable of feeling anything like this.  my mom died and I couldn't cry.  I'm hoping eventually I will still have these emotions, but they won't be so raw and overwhelming.  whats it like when you are a ways out of withdrawal and everything goes more back to normal?