1191 replies to this topic

[invalidusername]

When was your last drop? And by how much?

[Mxpro32]

I went from .25mg to half that 4-5 days ago. It's hard to tell though because the scale doesn't give consistent readings in this range. Sometimes it reads as low as .09mg up to .12mg.

[invalidusername]

Hmmm - that is right on the cusp of the levels balancing out, but I would be inclined to meet it half way if you can get your scales to read in the region of .17-18mg. I do feel that you should maintain the withdrawal, but a 50% at this point is too much. If after 3-4 days there is still no improvement, then it will be a case of restoring that last dose and stabalising. You know what you can manage in terms of symptoms, so ultimately it is your call, but in terms of the BP I feel you should bump it up that little bit to balance things out if it has been 5 days already.

[fishinghat]

Raising the dose may help but data shows it is a 50/50 chance. Once the dose is raised then you just have that much farther to fall later. Considering it has been 5 days since your last drop I would wait it out. It should only take another week or two to settle down.

[Mxpro32]

I measured my doses last night. I think I went from .25mg to .1. I measured out some .15mg doses and took 1 last night. It seems to have reduced the anxiety some and I slept slightly better. I didn't mean to drop to .1, but that's what the remaining doses I had measured out to. It's confusing because the 1mg tab weighs 2 mg, then my scale is in grams so there is math involved. A .15mg dose measures out to .03g on the scale. My blood pressure this morning is 125 over 83. I wonder if my concerts (Ritalin) raises my blood pressure? It would have been kicking in yesterday morning when my BP was taken

[Mxpro32]

I took my concerta an hour ago, now my BP is 143 over 89

[fishinghat]

A little confused with your math.

"1mg tab weighs 2 mg"

Surely you mean 2 grams not mgs.

You are right, it looks like the Ritalin is helping to elevate your bp.

[invalidusername]

An hour is still relatively early, it reaches peak plasma level around 6-8 hours. Are you able to measure your BP again?

 

It could be the Ritalin, but it needs to be tested in similar environments, and the best way is to take resting pulse.

 

Hat once told me how this is correctly done, but can't remember!

[fishinghat]

IUN, it depends if it is extended release or instant release. It reaches max effect in 2 to 4 hours for instant release and 3 to 8 hours for extended release.  It should be noted that the time it takes to have an effect varies considerably

 

There is a detailed section in the ebook on the specific way to take bp and pulse.

[Mxpro32]

a whole pill weighs .2 grams.  concerta is the extended release.  about an hour after I take it I feel a rush of energy similar to caffeine.  then about 8 hours later, I have a huge crash where I get emotional, feel like I'm going to cry and start yawning like crazy.  I used to be on 54mg and I never felt the crash like that.  I might lose a little focus or get a little sleepy.  now I'm on 36mg.  I just checked my blood pressure and it was 133 over 90. 

[fishinghat]

OK so a 1 mg tablet weights 0.2 grams (that equals 200 mg). So 1/200 of your tablet is medicine. So a .15mg dose measures out to .03g of pill. Right, got ya.

Just for a comparison I drop my dose 0.01 mg every 3 days with no symptoms during my benzo withdrawal.

[Mxpro32]

.01mg is .0001 grams.  my scale is nowhere near that level of precision.  mine only reads 0.000 grams.  mine will go from reading .000 to .005 or .007 just sitting there on the counter.  I've been going from .05 grams to .04 grams, etc.  every week.  

[fishinghat]

I understand. Do what you can. Just take plenty of time between drops.

[invalidusername]

IUN, it depends if it is extended release or instant release. It reaches max effect in 2 to 4 hours for instant release and 3 to 8 hours for extended release.  It should be noted that the time it takes to have an effect varies considerably

 

There is a detailed section in the ebook on the specific way to take bp and pulse.

 

Of course it is in the eBook - I of all people should know that! And didn't consider the release variable - very good point. But data taken over several day will draw a pattern, thus showing whether it is med or withdrawal causing the spike in BP.

 

 

Just for a comparison I drop my dose 0.01 mg every 3 days with no symptoms during my benzo withdrawal.

 

Coming from the man whose favourite saying is "time and patience". That says it all! That is dedication to withdrawal there...

[fishinghat]

What can I say. I am 93% off a huge dose of lorazepam and have lead a "normal" life during my withdrawal. Yeah.

[Mxpro32]

What can I say. I am 93% off a huge dose of lorazepam and have lead a "normal" life during my withdrawal. Yeah.

Normal? What's that? I slept through the night last night since I upped the dose to .15mg

[Mxpro32]

Slept through the night again last night. I think going back to .15mg was a good call. I got a refill, so I'm going to keep going slow.

[invalidusername]

Slept through the night again last night. I think going back to .15mg was a good call. I got a refill, so I'm going to keep going slow.

 

Glad to hear it. Keep us posted

[frog]

Glad to hear you're sleeping better again!

My sleep has sucked the past week. I've been tapering down the Seroquel. I was primarily worried about being able to fall asleep as I tapered/and when I got off. I haven't had any issues with falling asleep thus far but I keep waking up way too early. Last night at 5:30am and at 4:30am the night before. 

 

I know for me I feel stuck between a rock and a hard place. This may be a bad time to get off a sleep aid given how much stress I've been under recently making it unlikely that I will sleep that well on my own (I know a lot of people who don't take any meds whose sleep has been messed up through all this). On the other hand it's a great time because I don't have to worry about sleeping badly and then having to commute to work, be in the office all day, etc. 

 

Wish I knew if the waking up too early was just part of the taper process and if I stay at this dose a little while longer it'll even itself out or if my body's just not ready to get off.

[fishinghat]

Stay at that dose for a week to 10 days and see if things improve. If they do then it was just the Seroquel withdrawal.

[frog]

It's been 10 nights as of tonight. Does that mean my sleep is unlikely to improve? If I continue on with the taper is this just going to get worse? 

[fishinghat]

It will eventually improve but I was refering to staying on that dose for a week or 10 days longer. Sorry for not being clear. So, say by June 25th, it should be improving.

[frog]

Got it! Thanks for clarifying. Yes I'm planning on just hanging here at least through the weekend. If nothing else I think the big spike in anxious energy I had a few days after the last drop was most likely the Seroquel. I haven't had the same awful feeling since. 

[Mxpro32]

I've had some pretty interesting feelings lately.  I feel like all of my emotions and physical sensations are very raw and vulnerable.  instead of the general anxious feeling, I feel like the reality of the world and my vulnerabilities are way more real, and it spooked me at first.    life seems very profound, like how crazy it is that we are these organic creatures floating through space on a huge rock.  I know I sound like I'm on drugs, and it almost feels like I am on some drug that expands your perception, but I'm not.  its not a manic type feeling either.  its more like a rabbit dropped off on the serengetti with all of its senses heightened.  like the opposite of numb.  physical touch is way heightened too.  my libido is through the roof, and sex feels so good I lasted all of 5 seconds last night (sorry if tmi).  my startle and stress response is way sensitive too.  I was watching a supercross (dirt bike) race on tv, and the race got exciting, and my heart jumped out of my chest and I had an overwhelming fight or flight response.  every thing I took for granted in a sense, or even things I would stress about seem so impermanent and it feels terrifying.  like my business income, my health, etc.  last night, I couldn't fall asleep until 2 am because every time a thought of something bad potentially happening would cross my mind, I would have a jolt of fear and adrenaline.  then when that almost wore off, I would have another thought and do the same thing.  then my daughter came in our room and woke us up at 6:30 and I couldn't go back to sleep.  I still feel decent and not too tired today.  at first it felt like this was all a negative thing, like just more anxiety, but I'm realizing its probably my brain turning back on and feeling again.  things are real again instead of feeling disconnected from the world.  I think this leaves the possibility of feeling positive emotions more strongly as well.  I imagine this is my brain swinging too far the other way and it will come back a little as not to be overwhelming.  anyway, this has been a very profound and interesting few days.  the lingering effects of cymbalta withdrawal are crazy.  

 

I've also realized I was having more side effects on the cymbalta than I realized.  I've discovered this by just noticing how things are different now.  I used to hate the heat and sweated profusely.  I would wake up with my bed drenched.  now the heat doesn't bother me so much (it gets to 110 degrees here in the summer).  I also noticed I remember things way better now.  I can go pickup dinner and remember the details of everyones order with ease.  or go shopping without a list and not forget anything.  I used to have a terrible memory on cymbalta.  I've also noticed how even when my sleep is terrible now, I'm never really that drained or tired.  I'll be a little sleepy and my mood may take a dip, but otherwise I still feel ok.  on cymbalta I was always tired and physically drained no matter how much sleep I got.  

[fishinghat]

I am glad to hear that your senses are beginning to kick in unimpeded by the Cymbalta. That is a good thing.

[frog]

So interesting. This has not been my experience off Cymbalta at all lol!

I did have the jumpiness you mentioned, being easily startled. But that has mostly worn off. My memory seems worse than before. I'm constantly grasping for certain words and coming up empty. I've gotten used to it but it's pretty annoying. My short term memory has never been the strongest, but now I feel like my long term memory is worse too. I've also been sleeping kind of crappy the last week+. Waking up too a couple hours too early, feeling tightness in my chest like something is sitting on it, and it's hard to fall back asleep. I feel pretty wiped out most days as a result. The subpar sleep also makes me more anxious during the days, I suppose the stress on my body of not getting the full nighttime recovery. I'm not sure if the Seroquel drop is responsible for the sleep getting a little worse again, but my gut feels like it's the stress response not letting me feel fully relaxed enough to sleep and the Seroquel was just covering that up. 

 

I can totally relate to the random thoughts floating in and out while trying to fall asleep and each one being accompanied with a little jolt of fear/adrenaline even if the thoughts themselves aren't that troublesome. That was part of the reason I had to start Seroquel in the first place. I couldn't relax enough to actually drift off. Each time I got close, I would get jerked awake. I also remember when I initially struggled with the insomnia, despite getting little to no sleep I felt mostly fine during the days, even a little wired. So I'm wondering if a lot of what you're experiencing is related is a heightened stress response related to lack of good sleep?

[invalidusername]

"like a rabbit dropped off on the serengetti with all of its senses heightened"

 

MX - you really have a way with metaphors!! That gave me the laugh I really needed this evening after a tough day.

 

"That was part of the reason I had to start Seroquel in the first place. I couldn't relax enough to actually drift off. Each time I got close, I would get jerked awake."

 

FROG - Been there, done that. Hated it. For sure is stress responses. I went with Kratom as opposed to Seroquel as I was, and still am, right against meds. I also experienced a lot of twitching during meditation which really annoyed me. But I guess as it is somewhere between wake ans sleep, it was going to happen. Glad that it sorted itself out in the end when my adrenal circuits stopped going tits up every 5 minutes.

[Mxpro32]

I haven't felt like this before.  before I felt fully alive and aware but it was mostly an enjoyable experience.  this was more profound feeling, but not all bad.  just fully alive and aware of everything intensely.  like all of the taken-for-granted, habitual go with the flow jadedness was stripped away and I was absorbing everything  in its naked reality.  thats intense and a little scary, but also kinda awesome.  it wasn't your standard worried about things anxiety.  

 

I've noticed that lack of sleep makes me more anxious as well.  I think its similar to a tired child bouncing off the walls to stay awake.  on those days, if I meditate and do deep breathing, I almost fall asleep and can't stop yawning.  

 

I think sleep issues are common in a lot of people right now, and its even worse for us due to our exaggerated stress and startle response.  

[frog]

Not sleeping well typically gives me anxiety the next day as well. It's an annoying cycle. 

 

I worked on my sleep hygiene a bit last night. Turned off the TV almost an hour before bed (I was playing a game on my phone after though. I am only human!) and then tried to relax in bed for a half hour or so before closing my eyes. Slept for 9 hours! Yay! Probably a coincidence but was encouraging.

 

I haven't been able to take a nap in over 8 months and I miss them so much. Same problem as yall are saying. My body will start to relax and get drowsy but my brain refuses to hit the off switch and keeps popping thoughts into my head that illicit little jolts of adrenaline. That's why I have to take Seroquel for bedtime to put me to sleep. I'm nervous if natural sleep will ever happen again if I'm honest. I've been using my nap attempts as a yardstick for whether anything has changed, and thus far it hasn't

[Mxpro32]

I've noticed I tend to sleep better on the days I can keep my stress response down all day by avoiding stressful thoughts, focusing on my breath, etc. It's like my body takes a while to come down from the adrenaline surges.