727 replies to this topic

[frog]

I don't think hydroxyzine would work for me. When I took Benadryl to try to sleep one night my heart was pounding so hard it made me anxious and I couldn't sleep at all. 

 

I tried 75mg of seroquel for the second time last night but the result was the same as the first. Heart pounding, anxiety was building, I spent half the night just trying to calm myself down from feeling panicked. I see now that increased heart rate is listed as a side effect for this drug. 

I think Seroquel and I just don't agree. I texted the NP to ask for something else to try. 

With that said, how do I get off the Seroquel? Do I need to taper off of it? I've been taking 50mg at nighttime for maybe 2 weeks now? Prior to that I was taking it for a few days and then taking a break for a couple days. 

[fishinghat]

Hydroxyzine is an H2 inhibitor while Benadryl is an H1 inhibitor so a different mechanism. Like all medicines it works for some and not for others.

 

I would wean the Seroquel slowly over a 2 or 3 week period and you should be OK. That was a real low dose you were on.

[frog]

How do I wean off of it? I take 2 25mg tabs. Do I just go to 1 for a couple weeks? and then 0? 

 

I'm going to try 300mg of gabapentin tonight. That's the other thing I was given for anxiety/sleep. I tried 200mg of it before and don't remember having any adverse reactions so I guess it's worth a try? I found a number of posts from people online who took it for insomnia with good results. Though I think a lot of them were taking more than 300

[fishinghat]

"How do I wean off of it? I take 2 25mg tabs. Do I just go to 1 for a couple weeks? and then 0?"

That should work. That is a very very low dose so I really don't see much risk of a withdrawal.

[invalidusername]

It'll be your brain not shutting down and your body done for, otherwise you could just got for a run before bed and zone out

 

Have you tried slow release melatonin?

 

Might make you a little groggy the next day, but if it works, then its a plus.

 

I think you will have the same issue as before of only sleeping 2 hours or so if you try regular melatonin as it only helps you to FALL asleep, then you are on your own. I found the answer - as did the wife - with my "special K", but if you want info, please PM. I know how horrible sleep depravity is... 

[frog]

Honestly IUN I don't even know anymore what's what. I'm upside down where sleep is concerned. But I think my best guess is that the Seroquel was increasing my heart rate so my body was probably tired but it didn't feel like it was. It was happening at 50mg too I think because my husband told me I was breathing really heavily when he would come in while I was asleep. But I guess I just didn't notice it as much when I was already feeling a lot of anxiety? Maybe the anxiety has dropped a tiny bit now and I'm more aware of it and at 75 I'm REALLY aware of it and the high heart rate brings on the anxiety of course.

 

NP said stick to 50mg seroquel and add 300-600mg of gabapentin at night. Giving it a try tonight. And maybe will try for a few nights in a row to see if it helps. There are a lot of comments online of people saying it really helped them with insomnia. I know there's potential of withdrawal with taking gabapentin but maybe with its short half life, taking it just once a day will keep dependence at bay

[invalidusername]

Yes, but your brain is controlling the body. Your body will need to catch up at some point after your brain has been throwing out all this norepinephrine and boosting the adrenaline levels. Your body will of course feel up for anything as it will be in fight/flight mode all the time.

 

No harm in trying the above for a few nights. Let us know how it all goes...

[frog]

Yeah I think the propranolol sometimes makes me forget that I'm still in adrenaline mode... but I'm sure I still am. I wish I knew when the adrenaline will calm down

[invalidusername]

3 months+ for me...

 

Not an easy road to hoe I can tell you

[frog]

I apologize I don't think I know your full story. Are you still going through withdrawal as well? 

 

Also the 300 gabapentin + 50 seroquel seemingly worked and I got a pretty decent night's sleep. I woke up a couple times but just for a moment. Fingers crossed for a repeat!

[invalidusername]

No - those three months were Jan-Mar last year. No withdrawal at the moment - just working out how I can get off my dose of Citalopram. 

 

Great news on the new combo - let's hope that continues for you. A good sleep is a wonderful thing...

[frog]

I'm in my 10th week of this nonsense. It's getting easier bit by bit but it's definitely still bubbling around underneath since I still can't sleep right without all these meds. Hopeful that over the next month things settle down even more. As of today I'm down to 4 beads. Woohoo! Chugging right along. The end of Cymbalta is in sight. 

 

Also I really liked the new therapist! She was very attentive and a great listener and didn't dismiss anything I told her about my withdrawal struggles. She's out next week but I'll be seeing her weekly after that. Really looking forward to working out some of my social anxiety triggers as well as all the feelings of guilt I tend to drag around with me all the time. 

 

IUN you've already come out on the other side of some real tough withdrawals. Citalopram is just a drop in the bucket at this point. YOU CAN DO IT!

[invalidusername]

I wish that were so... but having been pushed and pulled through so many meds since, it has made me ultra sensitive. I know I have got to do it at some point, but after 2 years of trying to get my head in gear, it is nice to breath the clean air for a while. I am for sure not staying on the Citalopram after my Dad ended up with Parkinson's because of staying on Prozac too long. 

 

Great news about the therapist - a good one is hard to find - stick with her!!

[frog]

Weekly update: 

I'm still on 4 beads and going to stay there until I have a few easy days in a row because I've had a rough go of it this round. I had dropped to 4 last Tuesday and starting Friday evening my anxiety worsened and it's been circling around since then. I had a better day on Sunday where my husband and I were able to go to Ikea and a few other errands and stop by my cousin-in-law's for an hour to see her off on a research residence in Louisiana. But that's about it. My current symptoms are pretty much all anxiety and anxiety related: heart pounding, shortness of breath, panicky. It's not all day long but it's on and off for a good chunk of it. Saturday and today there's also a lot of frustration and a lot of crying. The propranolol does a lot for the anxiety symptoms but I'm on my own with the crying and irritability and sadness like today. I'm frustrated because prior to Friday I felt like I was having more good days than bad and now I'm struggling again. 

 

I'm taking 50mg seroquel and 300mg gabapentin at nighttime to aid with sleep. It works fairly well most days. I wake up 1 or 2 times in the night but usually can fall right back asleep. After about 6 and a half hours I usually wake up for good and can't fall back asleep. Naps are unfortunately not available to me during this process. I can't fall asleep without the Seroquel. I can get really close, like all the feelings of falling asleep, but my brain won't allow me to slip into sleeping. I guess the adrenaline is still too high for actual sleep? This is roughly week 14 since I cold turkey'd 20mg and week 11 since the anxiety/adrenaline sky rocketed. I did add some beads back in for relief about 10 weeks ago which is what I'm weaning off now, but I'm still counting all these weeks as part of the recovery process.  I looked through old posts and saw a couple that mentioned that 12 weeks is when things started to get much easier with a lot more breaks in between bad days. That's what I'm hoping for. I'm hoping the drops are just throwing a wrench into things at the moment so I look forward to being past this part. 

[invalidusername]

It'll still be up and down as you are coming off the beads. You might have the dip around 3 days as it levels out, and then a bit of elevation but it will continue to be up and down whether it is around the time of a bead drop or not. The brain is still catching up from previous drops as well. So they will keep coming and going. There is no rhyme or reason to it I'm afraid. No-one can really make a prediction as to whether one day will be better than another. Luck of the draw - it all depends on what you brainum wants to do that day!

 

I remember the sleep pattern going exactly like that. I would go from little sleep, to then getting around 5 hours, then 6 hours, but as soon as I would wake, that would be it. Took a while, but eventually came around. Now I have gone the other way!! As my routine is returning and getting back to work schedule, my body is done for!! So I am sleeping around 9 hours a night! But this will too level off as my body gets to tolerate and I should level back to my usual 7 1/2 hours again.

 

Such a joy ride all this stuff

[frog]

Thanks for replying IUN. If as you say the ups and downs are just gonna happen as long as I'm dropping should I push on and do another drop? Is it better to hold for a while at 4 before resuming? I feel stuck

[invalidusername]

Been asked this question SO many times!!

 

The answer is simply that it needs balance, and only you can decide when is right and this is why we are always telling you to listen to your body as best you can. You could take years to reduce the dose and having quite a good withdrawal (not that I ever thought "good" and "withdrawal" could ever be in the same sentence!!), but the drop is still a drop, so regardless of how slow you go, your body will still feel that drop. So staying too long on one dose, your body could get too accustomed to it and it might feel it more - not usually the case, but I am saying that there is no escaping that hit from each drop. 

 

Lets say you messed your leg up real bad. It heals after 6 months. You start walking on it again for a couple of minutes and your muscles ache like buggery. You say, but that is going to happen - should I not just start walking normally as it is going to happen no matter what I do. True. And you could in theory get the recovery quicker, but there will be a lot of pain involved but less patience. Or you could take a nice long time doing just a wee bit at a time, but this is a lot of patience and frustration. Instead, you need to find a happy medium and everyone is different for this and the best jury to decide the pace... if you.

[frog]

Makes perfect sense. I think my only fear about accidentally going 'too fast' is compounding the fallouts from the drop. I don't know how to be sure I'm going slow enough to avoid that so at least I'm just dealing with the effects of one drop at a time if that makes sense

[frog]

FH --

I remember you saying that your digestive issues lasted only 6-8 weeks. I'm in week 11 and I'm still basically running to the bathroom after most meals. It was getting better and now it's worse again. I did start dropping the last of my beads a few weeks ago and last week I also started taking some gabapentin at night to help get better sleep. This is the only new things I've introduced. 

 

It took me like 2 months to stabilize when this nightmare started. Is it going to take that long to stabilize on the four beads? I would really like to have at least a couple better days before pushing on with another drop. 

[fishinghat]

"I would really like to have at least a couple better days before pushing on with another drop."

I would even say a fairly good week before dropping again. You took your time to stabilize after the last drop so this set back should be a lot shorter. By the way, one reason my digestive issues were shorter was the fact I was on probiotics when I started my weaning.

[frog]

Not exactly. I reintroduced 7 beads almost 3 months ago after cold turkeying. Then I finally felt stable enough to started weaning those around Christmas. A bead per week drop. Got down to 4 beads last week on Tuesday, was doing ok, then Friday I got a bad wave of anxiety in the evening and the anxiety has been much stronger every day since then which I'm attributing to the drop. So I've dropped 3 beads since stabilizing for 2 months previously. 

 

I definitely want to be feeling better before I go forward, I'm just so disheartened that it might take a really long time to feel good again and THEN this process will repeat itself several more times until 0. 

 

Would it be a good idea to try a probiotic for me? I read another thread here about probiotics and it sounds like it could contribute to some bad symptoms if there's dieoff from bad bacteria? 

[fishinghat]

Probiotics m(good bacteria) when taken will begin to overcome the bad bacteria in the gi tract. As the good bacteria take over the bad bacteria starts to die off and this releases toxins. In most people this is not an issue and they are able to jump tight into a full dose of probiotics (20 billion colonies per day). However in some people there is a need to start with 5 or 10 billon colonies and slowly work up from there.

[frog]

Is there a recommended brand that works well? 

 

Also since I actually dropped a few times before hitting this stronger setback do you think it'll take a long time before I stabilize again and am ready for another drop? My digestion is a mess again but I THINK my anxiety is improving a little day by day. Although those sound like famous last words...

[invalidusername]

Can't recommend, but just a word of caution about buying from Amazon. A lot of supplement manufacturers are offering a free order, or money off... if the leave good feedback. So buyers leave feedback immediately to claim these "rewards", so what you read may not be entirely accurate.

 

Amazon are aware of this and trying to clamp down on it.

 

Just a heads up to look elsewhere to get the full picture of a review for this sort of stuff.

[frog]

Thanks IUN! As a millennial I am usually pretty cautious about what I'm buying on Amazon and my husband even more so. With that said over a month ago he ordered me some Omegas on Amazon that seemed good only to find they seemed SUUUUUPER sketchy when we got the delivery. Needless to say I never took a single pill and we sent them right back. Agreed it's best to avoid Amazon when it comes to supplements. At least here in the US supplements are wildly unregulated so must stay vigilant. 

[invalidusername]

Agree completely... very much a buyer beware situation.

 

And a millennial... you are a spring chicken my dear!!

[fishinghat]

I am a firm believer in Ultimate flora by Renew Life. It is pricey but it has the best balance of bacteria colonies. There is a new brand also with good reviews but I can't remember it now. When buying probiotic remember that each bacteria species has its own way of breaking down food so the more variety of species on a brand the better the effect.
 
 
I feel old enough to be a millennial twice over.

 

[frog]

I'm 32 so I'm in the middle of the millennial pack. And also learning the hard way that Cymbalta withdrawal doesn't really care how old you are. 

 

Still struggling to get over the hump on the 4 beads. I was feeling like the anxiety has been a little lower day by day but last night my mind was pretty busy around bedtime and seemed to overcome the sedation effect of the Seroquel I take for sleep. It woke me up to go to the bathroom shortly after I fell asleep and then I basically refused to slow down and fall asleep. I feel like every night my brain fights the sedation. Most nights the Seroquel wins and puts me to sleep but it's sort of an uncomfortable feeling to wrestle into sleep. Has anyone taken Seroquel and had this problem? Are there other sleep aids that are gentler? Or do they not work as well? 

 

I started taking gabapentin an hour before the Seroquel to help calm my mind and also to keep me asleep for longer. The combo worked most nights but I guess it's not failproof. I feel like my sleep is SO SO fragile. Just when I start to feel confident in my ability to have a night of sleep every night, it's ripped away from me. 

 

FH-

The Ultimate Flora looks good but the lowest amt I can find is 15 billion. Is that too much to start with? Should I expect to have worse gastro symptoms when I start to take it? 

[fishinghat]

This is a common problem with all sleep aides, prescription or OTC. Your body is trying to regain control of your neurotransmitters. So, for example,  some time adrenaline is high and the sleep aide is not enough to overcome it. Sometimes the adrenaline is low and you sleep like a log. Until your body stabilizes you will fight this.

[gail]

Hello Frog,

It's to be expected. But, we see improvement with the anxiety so that's pretty good. We're talking cymbalta here, the crazy drug.
I have been on Seroquel for three months, then it pooped on me.
I take gabapentin for neuropathic pain. I never heard that it was good for sleep.
And trazodomne for sleep, takes a bit to kick in, one week or so. Absolutely no side effects.

Most complain about anxiety and about sleep. The path you're on is normal.

Remember, it's a wane and wax process, progress is not linear. Life is not linear, what is?