727 replies to this topic

[frog]

I think I'm getting confused. Even before I drop anything, there will be new symptoms emerging still? How do I minimize them? 

[invalidusername]

OK - another long catch up there. Just one point to add to Hat sage advice, and that is Ashwagandha can often take longer than 2-3 days to stabalise, so I would give it closer to a week where you can. Of course this is subjective and may well be that 3 days is the case for yourself, but always best to err on the side of safety - and the party line here for safety is patience. The word that you will grow to hate the more you converse with our beloved Hat

 

New symptoms may well emerge even during a slow taper, but they will reduce in their appearance and severity, thus minimising the necessity to find the means to deal with them. But experimentation with supplements will help you soon realise an arsenal of vitamins, amino, minerals and so forth that will come to your aid when you need them. This is where the eBook comes into its own as your best bet is to learn by others experiences.

[frog]

Thanks IUN. I think my one question that remains unanswered is if I'm to expect yet more symptoms at my current 7 beads? I understand now that new things may emerge once I start to lower the dose again (though hopefully not as strongly and not for as long as a month ago) but are the symptoms done 'emerging' at my current level? Can I assume I've now experienced the worst of this particular round? 

[fishinghat]

"Thanks IUN. I think my one question that remains unanswered is if I'm to expect yet more symptoms at my current 7 beads? "

Not impossible but unlikely.

[frog]

OK PHEW. That was what I thought you were saying at first and it really freaked me out I have to be honest. Because I was just finally feeling like things are moving in the right direction

[fishinghat]

Sorry if I freaked you out frog. Sometimes it is difficult (especially at my age, lol) to put things into words.

[frog]

You've been an amazing resource and so far everything you've predicted has pretty much come true so that's why it really scared me! LOL

Onwards we march toward feeling good and stable at 7 beads. Then you will all have to deal with my nonstop questions again when I finally drop down again

[fishinghat]

We are always here when you need us.

[Polly38]

Hi Frog.

Like you I have been taking Ashwaganda and have been having horrible stomach pains. I have had stomach pain whilst weaning off this horrible drug but it has got worse recently. I took my last bead last Monday so have been taking Ashwaganda, which works well for the low level anxiety I have had whilst weaning off but the stomach pains have been horrible.

To test out whether it was the Ashwaganda, I stopped taking it for a few days and the pain eased considerably! I took an Ashwaganda this morning as I was feeling a bit anxious and within 30 minutes of taking it, the pain came back and is still with me! I am sure it's the Ashwaganda, which is a shame as it calms me down. I was researching information about Ashwaganda earlier and it warns not to take it if you have a stomach ulcer. I don't have an ulcer but I do have a polyp in my stomach, so I think it is aggravating it. Are you still taking the Ashwaganda and do you still have stomach pain?

A question for Fishinghat- are stomach pains and mild anxiety normal during withdrawal please? I'm just trying to work out if it's the Ashwaganda or part of the withdrawal.

Thanks very much.

Polly

[fishinghat]

"A question for Fishinghat- are stomach pains and mild anxiety normal during withdrawal please?"

Actually bad stomach pains for a month to 6 weeks and horrible anxiety is part of most members symptoms.

It does msound like it is the Ash. That is a shame

[Polly38]

Thanks very much FH. Apart from the stomach pains and mild anxiety I don't think I'm doing too badly and have Suntheanine and CBD oil for the anxiety if I need it.

I will keep you updated on my progress without Cymbalta.

Thank you.

Polly

[frog]

Hi Polly! It's still so wild how much things affect each one of us differently. How much Ash are you taking? I read that too high of a dose can cause an upset stomach. I don't know for a fact if the Ash is behind my stomach issues but my hunch is that it's related to the anxiety I still have from the withdrawal because it's the worst in the morning and improves a lot by the end of the day and my anxiety is also the worst in the morning and improves over the course of the day. 

 

Stomach and anxiety have been my entire last 4 weeks of withdrawal so I think it's definitely safe to say you're just experiencing withdrawal symptoms. My anxiety was through the roof for a good 3 weeks but is now steadily getting easier. And the nausea has gone away completely which was suchhhhh a big improvement. 

[Polly38]

Hi Frog!Thanks so much for your reply. It's so reassuring to know that it does get easier. I am 8 days off completely so I'm really hoping things ease soon. I'm very much like you in that things are worse in the morning and ease over the day.

My Ashwaganda tablets are 600mg and the pack says you can take between 1 to 3. I only ever take one a day though. I'm going to leave it out for a few days and see if my stomach improves.

Am I right in thinking you came off completely but went back on 7 beads. I hope you don't mind me asking but why did you go back to 7 beads and how long did you stay off completely before you reinstated the beads?

Thanks.

Polly

[frog]

OH congratulations on being done! If you're just having mild anxiety and stomach pains it sounds like you're doing great and well on your way to being free and feeling good. 

 

My Ash is 300mg and they bottle says to take 1. I take 1 in the morning and 2 an hour before bed because for a week or so I was struggling to fall/stay asleep because of extra nighttime anxiety. See if your stomach clears up with not taking Ash and if it does seem like it's the Ash maybe you can try taking a lower dose of it to avoid the stomach problems but still get some anxiety relief.

 

You're right I did come off, basically cold turkey from about 18mg, about 2 months ago. A few weeks after I got run over by a withdrawal bus and had unbearable anxiety, nausea, crying, you name it. I was basically ready to just jump back on the full dose to make it go away. FH here advised that some have gotten relief from reintroducing just a small handful of beads and that way it's much less to taper off later once stable. So I was off for a month before bringing back the beads. 

[Polly38]

Thanks so much Frog! I really hope so🙏. I don't blame you for going back on some beads with those horrible symptoms. It sounds as if you are on the right track now, which is great!

This forum is such a godsend and everyone is so supportive, particularly IUN and Fishinghat- so thanks to everyone!!

I will keep you posted about the Ashwaganda.

Thanks.

Polly

[Mxpro32]

But but but... being patient is not my strong suit even in the best of times lol. 

I've been on the 7 beads + Ash for just about 2 weeks now so I'll evaluate again after another week. The timing really could not be worse with the holidays upon us for stress management. Fortunately we're not leaving the city for Thanksgiving but we're flying across the country (with a layover!) for Christmas so I'm really going to need optimal stress management by then. 

It still seems so confusing to me that these awful mood symptoms hit a full 3 weeks after I stopped taking Cymbalta. Everyone else seems to experience symptoms either alongside their taper or immediately after stopping. Any thoughts about that? 

mine came in brutally about 4 weeks after I was completely off.  anxiety off the charts, crazy depression, and a 4 am wakeup call of adrenaline.  

[frog]

Your story actually made me relieved that it's clearly not SO uncommon to have a delayed reaction. I think you and I share a similar experience with all this

[Polly38]

So today I have got up feeling like I've got the flu. A heavy feeling on my chest (like congestion), feel feverish and congested. Us this normal on day 9 and will it pass?

God I hate this😥.

Thanks.

Polly

[invalidusername]

Hi Polly...

 

Just like I told you... somewhere between days 7-10 is the "second gate" to pass. 

 

Some get this at the first gate after 3 days, other like yourself, get this in week 2. This may well peak over the next 24 hours but will then start to abate and by the end of the week it will be much more tolerable.

 

Hang in there - this is all perfectly normal.

 

IUN

[frog]

Hi guys. I had a fun anxious thought last night: I suddenly got really worried that I wasn't in fact improving like I thought I'd been and that it's just the Ash supplement that's doing all the work and making me THINK things are way better. And if I took the Ash away I'd be right back to where I was a few weeks ago. Is that possible? I'm trying to tell myself that these are just bad anxiety thoughts and not reality because as soon as i started having these thoughts I started getting very anxious even though I was taking the Ash same as always. Does Ash build up in your system and cause cumulative effects or does it just work when you take it? If it just works when you take it then I guess that would solve my question that it's NOT just the Ash.

 

It's so frustrating right now because I was really starting to feel like the anxiety was lifting and leaving but as soon as I had that one anxious thought it was all right there again rising. It seems like on the whole when I'm going through my normal go to work come home routine, the anxiety pretty much stays away but even the POTENTIAL of a little change in the routine gets my stress up. Or maybe it's just like what you've all mentioned before that it sort of comes and goes. Some days it's just more present than others no matter what you're doing or not doing. 

[fishinghat]

One thing that really surprised me during my withdrawal...When going through a tough time I felt like I and not ever had any breaks and that the symptoms would never go away. When I did het a break and feel better I felt like it was all over and I would never feel bad again. Of course both were incorrect.

[frog]

That's exactly how I feel. It's so different from how any normal recovery works (where once you turn a corner and start getting better you just get better and better and better) that it's really hard to wrap your head around. Why does the brain get better then worse then better then worse? 

[fishinghat]

Cymbalta, like other antidepressants, effect the neurons in the amygdala and hippocampus in the brain.

These are the centers for paranoia, anxiety, fear, insecurity and other emotions. The recovery of these altered neurons and reestablishing control of the associated neurotransmitters is hit an miss as the body tries to recovery. Some times your body overcompensates for a given symptom and sometimes it simply does not respond mush at all. This leads to the rollercoaster experience.

[frog]

So essentially I'm probably out of the true withdrawal phase and in the recovery phase, and basically the over and unders will be less and less severe as time passes? 

[invalidusername]

Perfect description by Hat there. As I like to put it, the brain needs to re-catalog all of the emotions again. It has forgotten the recipe of chemicals that the "old" you needed to control each of them, so it needs to go through each trying different levels - see how you react - and then try again until it comes right.

 

Ash is a cumulative effect. It can be used as an "as needed" supplement, but the symptoms will return quickly. It is better during withdrawal to use it routinely every day and build it up in your system. This can take around 10-14 days for full effects. So if you have been doing this and stop, your system won't hit an immediate withdrawal. It will take a few days to run clean of reserves.

[frog]

I thought I was just feeling better on my own. I hate the idea that I'm only feeling better because of a supplement because it means I'm now dependent on it for feeling better

[Lovey]

I feel this re cataloguing taking place!!!! Wow, I thought I was crazy but this post has given me so much validation of my experience and hope that my brain, body and me will all get in sync sooner than later.

Minute by minute, thought by thought, I face feelings of fear after fear after fear.... I am sizing up each thought and situation, assessing with vigilance, is this a threat? Is this an emergency?

[Lovey]

I have survived many truly traumatizing events and situations in my life, from my earliest formative years, and beyond. Trying to learn that I am relatively safe now and it is a challenge, but I am a badass and with God's help I will overcome!

[frog]

Rough day today after having an overall pretty good day yesterday, maybe one of the best days in a month even. More overall anxiety throughout the day, little appetite, getting overwhelmed easily at work. Came home and cried for 20 straight minutes and still feel like I could start again at any moment. Is this the recataloging you're referring too or is this just more of the ups and downs of withdrawal? This is awful. How long is this going to last

[Mxpro32]

One thing that really surprised me during my withdrawal...When going through a tough time I felt like I and not ever had any breaks and that the symptoms would never go away. When I did het a break and feel better I felt like it was all over and I would never feel bad again. Of course both were incorrect.

Very good description. Every time I start feeling bad again I'm devastated because I really believed I was getting better. Then once I feel bad, it feels like it's going to last forever and I feel like I won't be able to handle it. Physical pain recovers in a linear fashion. It's confusing when this doesn't.