727 replies to this topic

[fishinghat]

Super post frog.  I especially can identify with the fear of fear!!  Hang in there. It will take time to get your confidence and comfort level back.

[Mxpro32]

great post frog.  "Essentially I think everything I'm dealing with now is just a consequence of how traumatic the withdrawal was:"  it just struck me the other day too how the withdrawal was traumatic in its own right.  Even when times are good now, I find myself drifting into fear of feeling like that again.  its a level of suffering I had never experienced, and its traumatic and scary to think of falling back into that.  when I do feel bad now, its a tiny fraction of the misery I felt then, but my fear that I'm drifting back into that makes me amplify what I'm feeling.  I'm working on seeing and feeling things as they are now, and not as signs that I'm going backward.  I got to wondering why I never went back on meds when I was so miserable, and my conclusion was that withdrawals were SO terrible it showed me how powerful and terrible psych meds can be.  One of my friends who didn't understand what I was going through and had a tendency to belittle it told me the other day that I was strong, and that he doesn't know many people who could endure that level of suffering without going back on meds.  I think now that I'm doing better, it highlights the contrast of how I was and makes it easier for him to see.  When I told my wife what he said I burst into tears.  tears are something I'm grateful for as I never cried or felt powerful emotions on Cymbalta.  

[frog]

Thanks FH and yes I think when I used to come here when I was deep in it and I would read your posts saying it could take 6-8 months to get better, I remember thinking OMG I don't think I can suffer like this for that long. I won't make it. And then 6-8 months came and went and I was better but still had so many new issues and I was so defeated thinking that something was wrong with me and I would never be better. But I am realizing now 1.5 years later that the withdrawal itself 6-8 months is the worst part but recovering from the trauma of the withdrawal lingers farrrrrr beyond that.

 

MX yes your post captures exactly what I mean. I still think everything is a sign that I'm going backwards to that really dark, helpless place and I could be stuck there for a long time and that really rattles me the most. I'm still having a hard time accepting that that will probably never happen again. I may have little bumps in the road now and again but they pass quickly. But the suffering during those months was so tremendous that the fear lives really strongly within me every day. I'm hoping it'll keep fading with time on its own as it becomes more of a distant memory but I also know how powerful things like PTSD can be so I don't know if I should be taking more of an active role in this.

 

And yes I agree with you, I also feel that through all of this I have learned that we really know so little about these psych meds and how they really affect us (and of course that they affect us all differently). 

 

I went down to 1/2 tablet of Seroquel last night with no issues All the tools I've learned from my CBT-I doc are helping me to self soothe at night and let sleep come. And I'm lucky that once I'm asleep I sleep through the night ok. 

 

And I just booked a flight to San Diego in July with my husband. Dip my toe into the pool with a 1.5ish hour flight and a relaxing long weekend. Hoping the panic before the flight is not too horrible but I was definitely already starting to spiral a little bit even after I bought the tickets...

[invalidusername]

Hi Frog...

 

Great read that post the other day and had lots of things flash up from my past and present, but it is only natural that you will have a touch of PTSD after going through a traumatic withdrawal. You were forced into a position that was out of your control. You stuck with it as best you could, but old habits die hard.

 

Regarding the flights - I can see this for exactly what it is as I went through the same. I used to travel so often for my uni work to take samples to the point that I really enjoyed flying - like you say. I have been in recovery for roughly the same time as you after I finally levelled back out on the Citalopram. I find myself saying the same thing about flights as you say... maybe by the end of the year... but I think you are right on the money. Whenever that first flight will be, it is going to be one to break the pattern. It also concerns me that I travel alone and those that I see abroad have no background on my condition. I think it would help greatly if I could travel with someone, but the Uni wouldn't covers those costs obviously!

 

Not downplaying your flights at all, but I am a lot better with car journies, and if I was in the same country I would consider driving, but on our little island of the UK, there isn't much one can do unless you want to face a multitude of security gates; the first from UK to France, and then countless across Europe. It is the knowlege that I MUST get a plane back home, and if the first flight goes bad, then... Apologies if I am making you anxious!! Just wanted you to know you are not alone in this!

 

A HUGE congratulations on booking the flight though. SO proud of you. I think this will be a great first dip in the pool as you say. 90 minute flight and your husbands support. The way I think about that is that it is not even the length of most movies - so no sooner will you have taken off, you will be landing! Use the propanalol if needed, but sometimes knowing it is there is enough. This is how I am tackling my valium withdrawal. I am down to 5mg/7.5mg every other day - soon to be 5mg every day. It is tough, but when I have a bad day and reach for it, I just take it 5 minutes at a time. I think, it will still be there if in 5 minutes I still need it. Am conscious of the fact that each time I have that extra dose in a day I am putting a hurdle back in the withdrawal timeline.

 

Anyway - good post and thanks for sharing so us - and all of those who will benefit in the future.

 

IUN

[frog]

Thanks for sharing IUN. 

 

It's interesting because anxiety has been flaring up here and there the past couple of days in preparation for our other small car trip this weekend. And it was frustrating because I kept trying to tease out what it was that I was actually anxious about because I didn't feel like anything specific was coming up at all, just an overall foreboding kind of feeling of dread. Which is super frustrating because it's hard to talk back to your anxiety when you don't even know what you're anxious about. But it occurred to me that I think I'm just anxious about being away from home. This is homebase, security and safety. After withdrawal and spending so much time at home during covid too (as we all have) I think the mental connection between home and safety is really deep right now. So it doesn't even matter if it's driving, flying, walking whatever. Leaving home is just scary. I really hope this feeling eventually passes though. I miss traveling and the holidays will be coming up so I want to spend time with our families across the country again. I just don't want to have an anxious meltdown every time that happens... 

[fishinghat]

For me it took a few years to really get comfortable going out on a regular basis whether it be a trip to the store or just a sightseeing drive but with small steps it got easier.

[frog]

It definitely takes time and small steps agreed  

 

One thing I find that can make it a bit easier is to focus on the positive or exciting/happy things about whatever it is I'm feeling anxious about going to. It's harder to feel anxious about something you're genuinely looking forward to. Easier said than done though of course. My brain loves to exclusively focus on all the potential dangers and it can be hard to change the channel. But I think that's definitely one of those fake it till you make it things where your attitude just changes over time. 

 

I'm trying to do that with this weekend's trip and remind myself that even though I won't be close to home, it'll be so nice to enjoy some warmth and sun and take a couple days off work to relax and eat some good food and spend some quality time with my husband. All things I normally really like! 

[invalidusername]

I have found a means of easing my way back, which may or may not be useful to others;

 

1) Spend a few minutes outside, either walking near to home, or driving within a 3mile/5km radius

2) Increase the amount of time outside incrementally whilst maintaining the distance from the home

3) Then move the distance boundaries a little perhaps 5mile/8km and start again - just a quick trip to pick something up perhaps

4) Increase that time again - maybe a shopping trip whilst staying close to the car

5) The car then becomes an extension of the home

6) Then increase the distance from the car - maybe a walk around a mile or so radius

7) Increase the distance further and continue...

8) You will reach a "saturation" point where the distance is no longer a factor

 

I am at point 6! I have got to do a 300 mile journey shortly. I am toying with the idea of doing it in one day and returning home, or whether to take the plunge and do an overnight in a travel tavern or similar. If I think about it I will for sure get anxious like you say Frog, but that is par for the course, otherwise we wouldn't have these steps to follow

 

Will be thinking of you as your trip approaches.

 

IUN

[frog]

These are great!

 

We just got back from our roadtrip down the coast (a bit over 300 miles) and stayed at a hotel there for 3 nights. Overall it wasn't too bad but I had an issue on the last night and the day we needed to go back. The last night we went to a fancy multicourse dinner but all of a sudden while at dinner I took a bite and got SO woozy I thought I was going to faint right there at the table. My husband thinks I may have gotten dehydrated. I hadn't been drinking much water on the trip, it's true and he's probably right about the cause. But of course given the events of a year ago it was hard to not get freaked out that I was still being haunted by withdrawal. But by far the worst part was dealing with my IBS. Or more accurately dealing with the FEAR of the IBS. Depending on how my bowels are feeling any given morning, some days I feel good and relatively carefree about it (like the day we left on Thursday) and then other days I feel like diarrhea could strike at any moment and getting into a car for a long drive is the scariest thing I could possibly do (like yesterday when it was time to drive home). I think a lot of this is mental and most likely if I could stop obsessing over my bowels nothing that bad will happen but wow is that easier said than done when you're faced with the potential consequence of urgently needing a bathroom and not being able to access one. It drives me crazy to be honest. I feel like I'm spending way too much mental energy worrying about where and if there will be a bathroom everywhere I'm going or keeping mental tabs on how far away I am from one at any given time. I never thought about this stuff before. 

 

Does anyone with IBS have any tips? I know there's Imodium but it does tend to constipate me even taking part of a pill so I'm worried that it might just be kicking the can down the road if I take it one day but not another. 

[fishinghat]

I am a firm beleiver in insoluble fiber (app. 30 mg/day) for IBS-d. You might try around 1/6 of am Imodium. That is all I use when I do have issues (which anymore is very infrequent).

[frog]

Those Imodium caps are SO hard to cut. They like to crumble. But maybe I could try taking some for a few days this week and see if it makes me constipated. If not that could be a great solution for trips for peace of mind. 

[frog]

New thought... well not really new but a RENEWED thought. I don't think I have IBS? Or at least I don't right now. I think I'm having irrational gut related fears that are making me anxious and panicked and making me perceive that something is wrong. It's like a self fulfilling terrible prophecy. I worry about my gut and endlessly scrutinize every sensation. Occasionally my assessment is correct which perpetuates the supposed need to keep worrying about it. But like.. 95% of the time there's no ACTUAL danger and it's the 5% of the time that's keeping me imprisoned to this irrational fear that came out of some bad experiences that happened when I was going through withdrawal. Normal people get bad diarrhea sometimes too but they're able to ignore it as a one off situation and move on. I can't seem to move on and I feel like I'm developing really bad mental habits and phobias around this topic including scrutinizing what and when I eat, rejecting certain activities based on worries about being trapped without a bathroom, the list goes on. I think I gave my brain permission to worry about my gut when I was going through withdrawal and now it's just taken on a life of its own and I can't turn it off and I feel like a prisoner in my own damn mind. 

 

The good news is I think step 1 is starting to recognize when our fears are completely irrational when they feel SO real. As we speak I'm looking for a therapist that specializes in CBT for IBS. I want to use the same approach that helped me move past the insomnia I thought I had (turns out I didn't really... I just needed to reframe my mentality around sleep and learn a couple of tricks). I have a LOT more panic and fear around my gut than I did with sleep so I imagine this will be much harder but I feel like I'm still early enough into it that I can break this habit before it becomes a full blown phobia. 

 

Wondering if anyone here has had much experience with CBT for anything similar? I'm guessing it's somewhat similar to CBT for sleep: keeping a daily log for tracking, learning how and why the mind is working this way, learning some strategies on how to interrupt and reframe negative thoughts, putting it into practice/exposure (scariest part).

[fishinghat]

Your assessment is rational but only a very good therapist coulkd determine such a thing and treat it.

[frog]

CBT is actually considered very effective in alleviating IBS overall: https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC5530860/

 

I thought some parts of this were very interesting, particularly the role of brain and pain perception for people who are diagnosed with IBS:

Visceral hypersensitivity is one of the hallmark features of IBS and refers to an increased tendency to experience pain or discomfort in response to clinically normal bowel functions. This has been demonstrated in research studies during which IBS patients have much lower pain tolerance for rectal balloon distension than healthy controls.13,14 Nerves of the enteric nervous system in patients with IBS send amplified pain signals to the brain in response to normal GI functioning. This is why normal amounts of gas in the intestines or muscle contractions of the colon can be perceived as highly painful for someone with IBS.

This visceral pain sensitivity reported in patients with IBS is attributed in part to abnormal pain processing in the central nervous system.15,16 Recent research utilizing brain imaging techniques has identified abnormalities in central sensory processing among IBS patients. Namely, patients with IBS demonstrate greater activation of emotional arousal networks than healthy controls in response to visceral stimulation. Furthermore, during these studies, healthy controls activate brain regions responsible for downregulating pain (medial prefrontal cortex), whereas patients with IBS do not.16 These central processing differences contribute to symptom severity in patients with IBS.

The GI tract is highly susceptible to the effects of stress, and stress is a significant contributor to brain–gut dysregulation in IBS. Research has shown that stress is associated with the onset of IBS and with more severe symptoms.17,18 Stress can influence visceral pain perceptions and directly influence gut motility.19 Furthermore, research indicates that patients with IBS may have abnormalities in autonomic nervous system functioning, which can contribute to disruptions in brain–gut pathways.20,21

[frog]

woof it's been a rocky couple of weeks. Anxiety has been back with a vengeance. It hasn't been this bad for this long in many months and starting to get to me, you know the usual spiraling thoughts about how it's never going to get better again etc which, wouldn't you know it, just makes the anxiety even worse! 

 

I'm experiencing a lot of phobic thoughts and behavior related to gut issues/IBS and they're really feeding the anxiety monster. It's getting harder to leave the house because to do so I have to analyze every square inch of my digestive system and make sure I know where all the possible bathrooms might be along the way, at the location, etc., judging distances from one to the next so I'm never too far, constantly on the verge of fight or flight. I think this is pretty common defensive response for what I went through, but it is still maddening. I can literally be watching a TV show where people are stuck in traffic or out in nature (big fears for me right now) and I immediately start to get those pangs of anxiety. I don't like leaving my house because I feel the most relaxed here and going out means varying levels of anxiety or even panic

 

I had a consultation this morning with a CBT trained doc who deals frequently with patients with various chronic health issues, often related to the gut. It felt a lot more emotional than when I talked to the Insomnia doc, so I guess I'm on the right track as far as the source of all of this anxiety. I'm willing to give it at least a few sessions to see if I see even a hint of change/improvement in my thinking because even now I can recognize that the anxiety is coming from a place of real fear that needs to be addressed directly. 

 

But if I'm not getting anywhere with that, I'm ready to go on Prozac or something as plan B. I feel like I've wasted so much time being anxious and imposing all these limitations on myself over the past 19 months and it's time to reclaim some joie de vivre otherwise what's the point?

[Mxpro32]

I've been doing much better, but I'm still so easily knocked off track into fear and anxiety that I've considered going on something too.  as of now, I'm still seeing enough improvement I'm not going to do it yet.  I've had the same thoughts about missed time.  my kids went from 3 and 5 to 5 and 7 while I was dealing with this crap and I was essentially unable to enjoy them.  that makes me cry every time I think about it.  thats a big transition, and those young years are special.  they went from toddlers who think dads the best to independent kids, which is what I want for them, but the lost time is tough to accept.  now with the continued struggle, I'm worried how much more time I'll potentially miss, especially with our baby. 

 

are your digestive issues a real concern, or are your fears somewhat irrational and based and past experiences?  

 

I thought I was doing well, and in the scheme of things I really am,  but I had a recent stressful event in my business and it triggered a whole episode of overreaction and anxiety.  it was nothing big, its something to be expected, but it brought on all sorts of worries about uncertainty.  its not fun to think little setbacks in life can throw you back into panic and terror.  I feel like I used to be a very resilient person, and now I'm fragile.  part of the process is learning to trust that I may not be resilient yet, I'm probably not as fragile as I think.  I almost always feel like the world is a scary uncertain place where bad things can happen at any moment.  while that may be true, it would be nice to find some peace and acceptance as well.  I am curious how I would be on a regular antidepressant too. I wonder if it would help my sleep and my stress tolerance.  

[frog]

Nice to hear from you MXpro. I feel like we've had a very parallel experience over the past nearly 2 years. I think you def nailed it, it's like you're riding a RAZR scooter along a road. If the road is smooth and even, you're going along ok and you start to feel comfortable cruising and then suddenly a small rock appears and you go over the handlebars. I feel like before Cymbalta and even during it I would get anxiety about some very specific social situations that I probably could have worked through over time with a therapist and resolved. But NOW my anxiety has become so broad in scope that I'm basically scared of leaving the house because I'm afraid of being stricken with a gut issue and the resulting panic that settles over me when that happens. I guess I have to assume that the intensity of my anxiety is probably directly tied to the intensity of fear I feel over possibly finding myself in one of these situations. So maybe that's why I don't remember my anxiety ever feeling this physically overwhelming before, I probably just wasn't THAT worried about whatever things used to give me anxiety. On the flip side after experiencing what you and I did during withdrawal, I'm naturally terrified of reliving something like that. Ironically it's probably the anxiety about the anxiety that's the cause of the entire anxiety (wow what a sentence). Like if I could somehow stop myself from being scared of panic and anxiety then the panic and anxiety would probably never appear in the first place.

 

The CBT doc told me about a recent patient who was having a really difficult time with constant severe nausea that she was medicating but wanted to stop taking medication. After ONE session together, this person had a heart to heart with her friends and openly explained to them the fear she had and that she may have to throw up sometimes when she's with them. Apparently they were SO accepting and supportive that it made her feel at peace about her personal worst case scenario and completely cured her nausea? Like she was nauseous because of the anxiety she had over being nauseous in public? Crazy stuff but makes sense. 

 

I would say my digestive issues are mostly irrational anxiety based on past experiences as well as like.. a fear of the consequences? To put it simply... I'm terrified of pooping my pants in public. That sounds like the worst most mortifying thing that could possibly happen to me. When my gut was really bad about a year ago I had a bunch of CLOSE calls so I think my brain has made the connection that I have to be vigilant otherwise that worst thing will happen. What are the actual odds of that happening? Hard to say. The connection between the gut and brain is so strong that having anxiety about diarrhea quite literally gives you diarrhea. But yeah I feel like I've lost the ability to accurately interpret different gut sensations and place them appropriately on the scale of not relevant to possible emergency. Instead everything feels like a potential emergency. If I have a few glasses of wine I can generally calm down enough to stop paying attention but that doesn't seem like a long term solution especially because alcohol also messes up your stomach. LOL.

 

I think if it weren't for the fact that I'm still on the fence about having kids, I would say screw it and get a prescription tomorrow and give myself a break. On the other hand I don't think being an insane ball of stress and anxiety during pregnancy is healthy either so it's a tough and confusing choice. 

[Mxpro32]

yeah, it used to take a particular stressor to get me going.  now EVERYTHING feels terrifying if I let my thoughts run free. I've been working on not falling into the trap of seeking certainty where none can exist, and its helping, but its hard to imagine ever feeling safe and content.  I'm starting to get some positive emotions at times, but I'm mostly lacking any future oriented rewards or motivation.  I have short periods of clarity where my worries are in perspective and don't dominate my thoughts, and I feel alive and optimistic to a degree not possible when I was on meds. mostly  I've transitioned from constant overwhelming anxiety, terror, and depression to mostly neutral until something negative happens.  when the anxiety is triggered, its a reminder of how I used to feel all the time only stronger.  real depression is mostly gone now.  its just a sense of vulnerability and lack of ability to ever have a sense of safety and well being.  the sleep issues are still persistent even when my anxiety is low.  I just can't stay asleep.  overall, life is becoming easier and less dominated by a constant struggle.  I will feel bad if I compare how I feel now to how a normal person should feel.  I feel OK if I compare how I feel now compared to how I felt during the worst of the withdrawal.  its hard not to become impatient, and to not question if things are going to keep improving.  I really can't believe its taken this long.  

[frog]

"I will feel bad if I compare how I feel now to how a normal person should feel. I feel OK if I compare how I feel now compared to how I felt during the worst of the withdrawal."

Yup!

I really do believe that what's taking so long (at least speaking for myself) is that I've developed a hair trigger anxiety about anxiety. I never used to really understand how people developed severe anxiety or phobias or panic attacks that didn't resolve. But I truly get it now. Some event takes place in your life and it makes SUCH a negative impact on you that your brain develops a set of mechanisms to try to prevent experiencing further trauma. Unfortunately in most cases the mechanisms are harmful more than helpful because the actual danger is long gone but you continue to live your life looking for it around every corner reducing your ability to feel joy please or happiness because you're stuck in fight or flight instead. That's how I feel about myself. I feel like I have PTSD from the withdrawal so I'm no longer living with withdrawal but instead living with PTSD. Maybe the CBT will help enough but otherwise I think the best way may be to just take an SSRI and get a break from all of this. I don't really think there's any shame in it I just wish there was more convincing research on whether it's harmful during pregnancy

[Mxpro32]

I'm curious to see if it helps you. I keep wondering how I would feel on an ssri. I feel like I've been forced to learn coping skills and patience I've never had before, so maybe a low dose might give me a break to feel better. That's best case. I'm still worried it won't work and I'll be left coming off another drug and dealing with renewed withdrawals. Not sure I can go through that again.

[invalidusername]

Frog - just catching up, and apologies for recent silence. I have been suffering at the hands of the British weather - the humidity bought out my histamine levels to the max. I covered in hives with very little I could do about it being allergic to antihistamines. All I can do is lather myself in steroid lotion. But going out in public with blotches over my face, arms etc causes so much anxiety - particularly following the pandemic - people are so much more judgemental of any out of the ordinary health matters.

 

So much like you where you have found home to be the safest place, I have found the same - and whilst I do not want to, where is the alternative? It is so very tough at times.

 

Anyway - I have been reading through your last few posts and there is definately a question over whether your issue is anxiety driven or not. 

 

So is the anxiety provoked purely by the proximity of available bathroom services? Do you get anxious being out in public or any other similar scenario? I know this is difficult to judge, but I am interested to know what the situation would be if you were in those circumstances but with access to a bathroom. If you found that your symptoms still appeared, then the trigger is also partly a result of other factors. The symptoms you are having are very common with anxiety. I forget if you have done trials with anxiety meds as well such as propanalol or similar? Please forgive my memory. 

 

I do however tend to agree that what you have is some means of ptsd and what you are experiencing is a direct result of this. The question is how to deal with it, but I would certainly consider therapy before opting for the medication. Confidence is certainly going to be of importance here, but there is always the concern of the impact of the drug to be considered alongside your existing symptoms.

 

My thoughts and prayers are with you

 

IUN

[invalidusername]

my kids went from 3 and 5 to 5 and 7 while I was dealing with this crap and I was essentially unable to enjoy them.  that makes me cry every time I think about it.  

 

MX.. dear friend - never look in life's rear view mirror - guilt, blame, anger, sadness. We can't change our trajectory that was determined by conditions outside of our control. 

 

The best thing you can do is accept it as part of your journey here on earth and learn what you can from it, but then leave it where is needs to be - in the past. 

 

I really do understand how difficult this is to ask as I am just as guilty of it as much as the next person. But sometimes we need a reminder to gain a little perspective. 

 

Unfortunately in most cases the mechanisms are harmful more than helpful because the actual danger is long gone but you continue to live your life looking for it around every corner

 

That Frog has a means of cutting right through the preamble and directly to the relevant. I am sure there is a book in our friend here somewhere. What is said here is very fitting as I have seen many people get into a habit of judging today on what has gone before. Inevitably this ends up as a scoring system and we end up adding stress to our already stressful lives. 

 

When I started CBT with a therapist some time ago, she made be keep a journal of how I felt during the day, and whilst I can now see this as it was meant to be - a short term exercise - I continued this.... way beyond the scope of the treatment. It became a habit. It wasn't until I went to another therapist, who turned out to be integral to my progress, with 100 weeks + of these sheets, and the first thing she did was to tell me to stop. But of course by then, it was set in stone and was akin to giving up a drug. I had another withdrawal!!! LOL

 

 

I'm still worried it won't work and I'll be left coming off another drug and dealing with renewed withdrawals. Not sure I can go through that again.

 

Exactly my point to Frog for her situation. Granted ADs have their place, and they can aid in our progress, you are right to consider the inevitable of the start-up, withdrawal and such. I have seen some real positive improvement in you without the aid of such meds and you owe it to yourself to put faith in that part of you and see if you can further tap into that part of you which gets you to these pivotal moments.

 

But we will always stand by you both however you choose to proceed, but again, having some perspective always helps. When we are in the midst of stress, it is very difficult to make decisions. Rationality can be thrown out the window without us realising, leaving us to assume that the way we are thinking is the way forward. But mistakes, much like your "missed" 2 years are an inevitable part of life. Never look back. Look objectively, learn and move on... as best we can at any given time.

 

IUN

[fishinghat]

 "I keep wondering how I would feel on an ssri. I feel like I've been forced to learn coping skills and patience I've never had before, so maybe a low dose might give me a break to feel better. That's best case. I'm still worried it won't work and I'll be left coming off another drug and dealing with renewed withdrawals. Not sure I can go through that again."

 

Oh so true.

[frog]

All excellent points from everyone (as usual). Trying an SSRI comes with its risks: what if it doesn't even work and then there's another withdrawal? What if it does work but not "enough"? 

On the other hand I don't think my anxiety is so wildly unmanageable that an SSRI wouldn't help. If the idea is that an SSRI essentially balances out your nervous system and keeps things on an even keel every single day... well honestly that sounds like exactly what I need right now. I'm lucky to not suffer from depression or anything else, just wonderful anxiety. It feels like if I could just forcibly silence that excitatory nervous part of myself, all would be much better.

 

I had my first chat with the CBT doc. I mostly cried and babbled the whole time. I know everyone probably cries at the therapist's but for some reason I always feel bad or guilty when I do. 

Anywho, for now my only homework is to write in a Thought Record whenever an upsetting event/thought comes up. To start working on peeling the anxious thoughts apart and making sense of them. One thing she noted that made a lot of sense was that in situations of anxiety where we feel unsafe, the brain has a tendency to not follow the thought to its conclusion. You stop at the fearful bit and no further, I guess because the next step feels too scary to even imagine. Ironically if you do force yourself to reach the conclusion it may not be quite as scary as it appears. Like the Wizard of Oz, when you peel back the curtain it's just a little man with a microphone (sorry there I go with the metaphors again). I'm hoping by doing some of this CBT work head on I can reach that point too... finding the little man behind the curtain, but I'll be honest it feels hard to believe that there could be a world in which I just stop being afraid through my own willpower. Maybe I just lack confidence in myself idk. 

 

IUN the anxiety is provoked by feeling "unsafe." If I know where the nearest bathroom is I feel safer. So things like being in a bar or a restaurant feel much safer than say driving a longer distance in a car, or going on a longer walk, or being in a store that doesn't have a bathroom. Being with people other than my husband also feels a bit worse because I worry about having to excuse myself or go to the bathroom multiple times etc etc. What has happened in past situations that traumatized me is that if that urgent need strikes, I will become so panicked that I can no longer function normally. I'm sweaty, shaky, can barely see or hear anything so it can be hard to even take action, find a bathroom, whatever, so I developed this habit to be super vigilant in order to be able to catch any warning signs of stomach trouble as early as possible and not allow things to get to panicky stage. Of course that extra layer of edginess and vigilance can sometimes exacerbate the stomach and create problems where there were none which is probably why drinking some alcohol can "settle my stomach" aka take that edge/vigilance off and allow me to relax.

 

Sorry to hear about your allergic reaction. That sounds really miserable. I know for me when I'm already dealing with anxiety/sadness, having additional health ailments come up really kills me. It feels like I'm being kicked when I'm already down. Hoping you feel better soon but in the meantime don't worry about going out in the world with blotches! If strangers judge you that's their problem right? (Funny because I need to take my own advice here and stop worrying about what other people might think about me)

[Mxpro32]

I think you should go out in public and poop your pants to face your fears.  JK.  it is difficult to face your fears when the thing you fear seems somewhat rational.  for me its losing my business, which doesn't appear likely to happen any time soon, but its always possible.  how do I face the fear of losing it without losing it?

[frog]

LOL you're not wrong though. That's definitely the simplest way to face a fear You know it's funny I ended up talking candidly to a few friends this last week about this fear and they were actually super understanding and supportive, offered their own embarrassing stories with similar stuff and made me feel a lot less like my life would end if I did ever poop my pants in public lol. I was kind of hoping maybe that would magically make it all go away but turns out it's not QUITE as simple as that. But hopefully it's a step in the right direction. 

 

I think the fear of losing your business is very sensible as that is your livelihood and how you support your family. I think where both of our fears veer into irrational territory is that we currently live our lives as if those fears could come true literally every moment. It's hard to live your life like that because 99% of the time you're actually fine but you're living through that 1% moment over and over again and your body literally experiences it as if it's happening right now.  

 

I feel like your fear with your business could be really good to work on with a therapist and find what specific aspects of losing your business scare you the most. Then maybe if you have a clearer understanding of your fear you could take back control and maybe find some actions you can take that would make you feel more secure. Even if the worst happened and your business suffered it wouldn't happen overnight, you would have plenty of warning and have time to prepare or figure something out. But I understand that there's also an element of not trusting in yourself to be able to cope in the way that you need to. Although for what it's worth I think you totally would. You strike me as someone who is able to rise to challenges in the moment even if it's hard or uncomfortable. 

[Mxpro32]

"we currently live our lives as if those fears could come true literally every moment".  exactly this.  my fear circuits are convinced something terrible is going to happen any minute.  its awful.  I get small windows of feeling peace, but mostly varying degrees of fear and rumination.  my good days are still pretty anxious and fearful, just not terrible.  I still have a hard time finding any motivation and that alone stresses me out.  I'm going to need motivation to function properly at some point or its not going to be good.  everything takes will power.  I don't even have motivation to do things I like.  it sucks.  things are worse right now cause the baby has decided he doesn't want to sleep anymore and he requires all of your effort all the time to keep him from screaming.  I picked a great time to have a baby.  

 

"You strike me as someone who is able to rise to challenges in the moment even if it's hard or uncomfortable."  this is one trait I've always had.  the alternative of letting things go to shit has never really been an alternative for me.  I struggle greatly with motivation with things that need to be done but not necessarily right now.  the kind of things that will eventually bite me in the ass if I keep kicking the can down the road.  thats what worries me.  I need to get my act together and start functioning like I used to so things will be ok.  

[frog]

Anxiety is exhausting, so it's not big surprise that you're not finding the mental energy for 'motivation.' It's probably counterintuitive but the more you beat yourself up about not being motivated the less motivation you'll probably find because now you're pressuring yourself and judging yourself too. I would guess that the fear of your business failing is probably only the surface of your anxiety. There's probably some deeper stuff there. Like this: "the kind of things that will eventually bite me in the ass if I keep kicking the can down the road.  thats what worries me.  I need to get my act together and start functioning like I used to so things will be ok." This sounds like you're worried that if the worst happens and your business fails that it's indicative of a personal failure/something you did wrong or didn't do enough of, and you're definitely passing judgment on yourself for not being whatever way you believe you should be right now (I know because I do it too. It's hard not to when you start to compare yourself to whatever way you remember being a couple years ago). If you start mentally counting up all those things that you believe you could be doing more of or better, it's probably really overwhelming. Maybe you might find it helpful to write down all those things you feel like you're putting off, to get them out of your mind and onto paper. That way you don't feel like you have to hold all of that information in your head at all times. And you can refer to your list from time to time and even check things off as you do them so you can see that you're actually making progress 

[frog]

Well I really can't believe I'm saying this but I'm intending to go back on medication (though definitely never another SNRI) as soon as I find a new psychiatrist. I had been relatively stable and ok for a while and thought I was mostly in the clear, I was able to get off Seroquel for sleep which was a big deal and I thought I was just dealing with stomach related anxiety as the last hurdle but the past month or so I've taken huge steps backwards. When I was feeling better i bought myself and my husband plane tickets to San Diego (1.5 hr flight, super short) for a long weekend to hopefully do a little exposure therapy and break down the anxiety I had built up about travel/being away from home in general and airports/airplanes specifically over the past couple years (I used to get excited about traveling!). I knew it would probably be kind of rocky leading up to it but figured I could tough it out and it would be worth it in the end. But the past month has been miserable. My anxiety has been through the roof to the point where this morning I took Propranolol for the first time in maybe a year? I'm trying every trick I've learned in therapy, CBT, etc. but I'm back to feeling like I've been shot up with adrenaline and I'm just reacting to that feeling instead of some specific thought or circumstance. In my mind it's just like a big red flashing light just saying DANGER DANGER and not much else...

 

Long story short it's just become too much to deal with and I need a mental vacation where I just wake up one day and everything feels ok again. 

 

On that note I was just curious if anyone could share any opinions on the different meds out there? Pros? Cons? Which ones work well for anxiety and not just depression? Which ones are less likely to cause another bad withdrawal, etc. 

 

Anyone have any experience with buspirone? I've been reading about it and on paper it sounds like a good option with much fewer side effects than SSRI and a less nasty withdrawal. 

[fishinghat]

Just my opinion but from being on this site a long time I would lean towards Lexapro or Zoloft.  I have experience with buspirone. It is a very week ssri and indeed has much less of a withdrawal but it will not have a major effect on your anxiety. For most it seems to just give y9u more of na positive view on life.

 

Frog, I really hate to see you go back on another AD but you have to do what you have to do. I wonder if this trip is what has sent you spiralling out of control. I know that  after I started to settle down I had to just start withy short trips to town and slowly work up to longer and longer trips. It took me ab out a year to handle a full day of running around town on business, let alone a trip like you have planned. Do you think this is in response to the trip?  Also, you add in the stress from the pandemic and that may not be helping.