727 replies to this topic

[Lovey]

Hi, I feel lonely and frustrated. However-----I am going to go take a hot bath, listen to my favorite playlist and then early to bed celebrating the days many victories. i am still at 18 beads a.m. and 18 p.m. Not quite ready to drop another bead yet. Once spring is truly here, I will revisit the idea. I painted today, taught a class, dodged getting run over on foot, followed by avoiding a speeding car driving into my car a minute later (really!!) Did the dishes, cleaned the kitchen, 2 loads of laundry, endured painful incompetence of a coworker, grocery shopped and answered email. Yeah,I'm calling it a day. Thank you all for listening, and for caring about me. My heart is so broken but I am going to ask God to love me back together and send friends to help. Xo

[invalidusername]

Hi H... would have replied last night but started meditating and fell asleep almost straight away. What with all this building noise, it is not surprising!

 

Your opening line was inspiring. Hot bath and victories - brilliant! And stay where you are with the beads while you are doing all this stuff - but must be said that this sounded like quite a lot for a day. Something to be proud of, but these things catch up with you.

 

Understand this if nothing else.

 

Sometimes being brave is doing nothing at all. 

 

You feel you must, you need... to do these things. Give yourself some reasons to feel proud. But sometimes the bravest thing is to say no in the face of these things. 

[fishinghat]

"Sometimes being brave is doing nothing at all."

Oh how true. well put.

[Lovey]

Doing a lot of nothing today. You are so right. Sending lots of love to your precious hearts. H

[Mxpro32]

Frog, have you started the nac? Do you think that is helping with the rumination?

[invalidusername]

Interested in this as I am wondering whether NAC would be the next port of call for the mrs and her OCD and rumination borders a lot on obsessive behaviour...

[frog]

I never started the NAC. It just seems like I'm regaining more control over my emotions and over my thoughts again. I'm also really trying to consciously practice what I'm learning about mindfulness and staying present and not getting swept away by worries and fears about this condition. Way easier said than done but I think it helps to some extent. Of course when I have a bad day it's way harder than on a neutral or better day. 

[frog]

Interested in this as I am wondering whether NAC would be the next port of call for the mrs and her OCD and rumination borders a lot on obsessive behaviour...

 

I'm assuming she's already attempted to work on mindfulness via meditation, etc.? Reminding your brain to focus on the present and really think about what you're doing and experiencing in that moment really helps to occupy the brain and prevent it from going through all those unhelpful worry/fear scenarios as it likes to do. 

[Mxpro32]

Yeah, I just realized I hadn't been meditating. I stopped when I started feeling better.

[frog]

Yeah, I just realized I hadn't been meditating. I stopped when I started feeling better.

 

Yeah it makes sense that you would stop. I have this tendency too. It's so exciting to feel good finally that doing these things totally takes a backseat to just enjoying normal things and trying to dive back into your "old life". It's almost like a way to try to put all this crap behind you and forget it even happened. I don't think the mindfulness and meditation is a cure-all because I think our brains are still to some extent not functioning in a predictable way, but I think some of the skills really do help, most importantly the staying present and not allowing yourself to fall into the trap of spiraling worries and fears. I found the description from the Mindfulness book very vivid about the brain having a tendency to gather up all manner of similar thoughts, fears, and worries and tethering them all together until it's basically insurmountable. 

[invalidusername]

I'm assuming she's already attempted to work on mindfulness via meditation, etc.? Reminding your brain to focus on the present and really think about what you're doing and experiencing in that moment really helps to occupy the brain and prevent it from going through all those unhelpful worry/fear scenarios as it likes to do. 

 

Yes - still working on that, but she does meditation more than me. It doesn't help that she is also agoraphobic too....

[frog]

Boo. For me the ruminations are tied to feeling badly, so it's very much withdrawal related. If all the agitation and nervousness and heightened state went away tomorrow, I would never think about it ever again! I think my normal life ruminations aren't too out of control and I think being more consistent about being mindful and meditating would really help to get rid of them with time/learn to cope with them. That's why I don't really know if NAC would even work for me, but it might be great for your wife!

[frog]

Ugh guys, my GI issues are driving me crazy. I had a pretty sensitive disposition even before all this but nothing like this. A lot of food would make me gassy or give me pains, but now I feel like I'm constantly running to the bathroom multiple times a day. This has been going on for over 4 months now. It seemed to get better about a month ago and now it's worse again. I figured as the anxiety went down this would go away, but I'm not seeing that. In fact at this point it's one of the things that's GIVING me anxiety. 

 

The other possibility is that one of the meds I'm taking is making it worse? 

I kind of have my eye on fish oil being the possible culprit. There seems to be a lot of articles out there saying fish oil pills can cause diarrhea. I take a 1000mg capsule in the mornings. 

 

Other things I take are propranolol 20mg morning and evening, seroquel 50mg night time, and gabapentin 300mg nighttime. I don't think it's the latter two since they would have mostly worn off by day time. 

 

Any chance it's the fish oil or prop? I'm thinking I'll skip the fish oil for this week if it's possible it can cause this

[fishinghat]

Fish oil seems the most likely. It can cause bloating, diarrhea etc for sure. In fact it was so bad for my stomach I had to stop taking it. Once I stopped it took about a week to settle down.

[frog]

Thanks FH! You're always the man in the know. That makes me feel hopeful. Will take a break from the fish oil, I don't think it sits well with me either and while I'm sure it has positive brain benefits, having nonstop diarrhea is giving me a lot of anxiety. I think at this point I'd be better off with a solid stomach. 

 

Actually thinking back on it, there was a little while where I ran out and didn't take any and I think it was roughly the same time where I felt like my stomach was finally getting better. 

 

Will report back!

[invalidusername]

I know I speak for people such as Hat and myself, but it really helps to spreadsheet this sort of stuff - what you take, when you take it, how much you take - and correlate that alongside a column of symptoms.

 

I know this sounds techie... but it helps you get to the bottom of it to a greater extent, and you can show this sort of thing to the whitecoats, which can only make things quicker.

 

Plus... if you shared spreadsheets and graphs with Hat and myself, we would be so excited. 

 

For some it is a Sibelius Symphony, others it is Liv Tyler... but for Hat and I, correlated data and graphs do it

[frog]

Totally. I do keep a very rough chart of how I feel day to day since Christmas. Pretty much just how many hours I slept, how I felt overall (1-5, 5 is best) and my anxiety level that day (1-5, 5 is worst) and then just some general notes about what happened during that day to give some context. And then it's all plotted out on a graph. The graph itself has turned out to look pretty interesting. Would be happy to share the graph but not sure how? 

 

I didn't think to note the fish oil because it seemed insignificant and I wholeheartedly did not think it contributed in any way good or bad. And outside of that I've been super steady for the past couple of months with my meds and dosages. Everything I've seen on here of people trying various drugs or even supplements to help with symptoms and then developing problems or dependences to those things has pretty much convinced me to just stick to what I've got and just muscle through it. I know not everyone has that privilege and that's why these things are so damn hard to quit but I'm doing my best to just stay strong and I think the worst of it is behind me now anyway. 

[frog]

Also to tag onto my existing meds, I do want to start weaning off of them one by one in the near future and would definitely love all input and advice. 

 

Psych nurse's advice was to wean all the way down on the Cymbalta beads (one week to go!!!) and then wait a couple weeks and start weaning down the Seroquel. He advised to take 1.5 pills for a couple weeks, then 1, etc. Just wondering if that's slow enough, or if I can go faster? Or if I should start with the gabapentin instead of Seroquel? I'm looking forward to coming off the propranolol because I think it has a slight worsening effect on my breathing and overall energy levels, but it's probably not a good idea to wean from two things at once. 

[invalidusername]

Ooooh - this sounds good!! LOL

 

But alongside this we need meds and supplements etc. Add that to the slate from here on if you can. You can screencap the graph and upload as an image here on the forum, or you can use a file sharing site to upload to, or I can PM my email address if you feel comfortable with that.

 

My head is in study mode, so I need to think on the above tomorrow... but personally I would give it a little longer between day zero of Cym before starting another switch.

[Lovey]

Just stopping in to say hi to everyone. I am still sick woth a cold or virus. I imagine for another week, I will be. Just the way it goes with me. I have a wonderful savory homemade vegetable soup simmering and my house smells lovely! Taking it easy, watching netflix. Painting a little. I enjoyed the comment iun made about graphs and correlated information. lol! I would be well to chart myself this way. Food seems to have a large impact, sorting out allergies. I am allergic to pears! Anyway, sending love out to you all and a nice warm bowl of soup for you all!

[frog]

Here's a link to the screencap but I think it expires in a week. I don't see any way to upload to this site directly or I would: https://wetransfer.com/downloads/e41e293131261e239b2b5487da9fd7f820200303001447/a71ff06d089445fd29626a2c62b41ca620200303001447/5e5e76

 

For context, obviously this is self reported which I now can see skews things a bit. For example I had days I rated a 4 in the beginning, but I'd guess if I had those days now I would rate them lower. Does that make sense? Basically it's all relative of course. Also 1/7 is when I started to consistently take gabapentin and seroquel in the evenings and when the consistency and length of my sleep at night improved a lot. After that point I pretty much stopped messing with any of my dosages except of course continuing to tick down the Cymbalta. 

 

IUN I've been doing two weeks between bead drops so that's why 2 weeks. I haven't noticed any issues after the drops for the past few beads so I feel like it's unlikely they're having much effect at this point and whatever effect there is would probably show up and resolve within the 2 weeks. If anything I'm just nervous about dropping the Seroquel because I don't know if my brain is ready to fall asleep on its own yet. Seroquel is the only thing that's been putting me to sleep. I think doc wants to get off that one first though because it's the nastiest overall drug out of the 3 being an antipsychotic and all. 

[invalidusername]

[Lovey]

Iun please tell me how to make a graph like that!!!! My mind just popped! Haha. I am interested in the visual representation of information being an artist and nerd of sorts.

[invalidusername]

Easiest program to use if Excel for graphs - might do a topic on it later in the week.... I understand that it isn't as straightforward to everyone.

 

Properly zoned here this evening, so will have to catch up with y'all tomorrow. Too much study done this evening o_O

 

Goodnight my dear girls...

[fishinghat]

Frog

IUN said..." but personally I would give it a little longer between day zero of Cym before starting another switch."

Absolutely. I did not have any withdrawal symptoms until I reached the one bead mark!! I would also say that I would wait until I have been off for at least 6 months. Otherwise your nerves will still be very sensitive. One item at a time and then very slowly. It has taken me 7 years to wean off the 5 meds they tried on me to help. One step at a time.

[Mxpro32]

I didn't ween as slowly as you guys. I used the 5mg tabs, but my worst withdrawal symptoms by a mile came a few weeks after my last pill. So I second the idea of going slow

[frog]

Definitely understand the concern. But since it was a wean from 7 beads, I'm less worried than if it was the full taper from 60mg. 

I want to go as slow as necessary but I'm also eager to get off all these drugs so I can finally see if anything I'm dealing with is just a med side effect or it's just me. 

I take Seroquel (50mg) at night to put me to sleep, and gabapentin (300mg) in the evening to help me sleep as well. Propranolol I take 20mg in the am and pm for anxiety/agitation. 

Do you think I'll have trouble with withdrawal effects with any of these at those dosages? 

[fishinghat]

"Do you think I'll have trouble with withdrawal effects with any of these at those dosages?"

Trouble? Well that depends on speed and your definition of 'trouble'. lol

The Ativan, probably and will take 6 months or more.
Seroquel, some and should take 2 to 6 months.
Gabapentin, some and take 2 to 6 months.
Propranolol, some and 6 to 8 weeks.

But remember these meds are treating some of your withdrawal symptoms so even if you go slowly so it get no withdrawal from them you will get some reappearance of Cymbalta withdrawal symptoms as well.

[frog]

I'm not on Ativan thankfully, I think that's someone else on the forum. 

 

Right now I'm on week 18 since the worst of the symptoms first started. So 6 more weeks until it's been 6 full months. It'll definitely be a few more weeks before I start any weaning. Since the weaning process is so slow it seems like it might be ok to start in on one of these at the end of March and drop a little bit and see what happens.

 

Does it make sense to start with the sleep aid ones or should I leave those until later and start with the prop? The prop was originally prescribed as PRN/as needed so the goal is just to get away from taking them on a consistent basis and just take them occasionally. 

 

And what's the best method of decreasing these? The prop and the Seroquel are pills. I got a pill cutter though it'll be tricky with the Seroquel because the damn things are TINY!

[fishinghat]

Sleep is critical for handling withdrawal so I would save those to last. I would start with propranolol as it would be the easiest. At 20 mg twice daily I would drop 1/4 tablet a week at first and see how you do. It does not have a withdrawal but it does have what is called a rebound effect. Your pulse and bp will increase some. The slower you go the less the rebound. I have come off atenolol once and my wife propranolol once. A decrease over 3 to 4 weeks has been very easy for us as well as others I know who have stopped a beta blocker. A 1/4 tablet drop each week would take you 8 weeks and that is plenty slow.

 

Once you are off that we can work on the Seroquel and the gabapentin.