727 replies to this topic

[fishinghat]

Unluckily this is typical for many. So sorry.

[frog]

I've been doing the same. I just have this uneasy restless feeling that is hard to describe. It wakes me up and it feels aweful. It's like a depression mixed with adrenaline and an almost chemical feeling sadness. I've cried a lot the last 2 days for seemingly no reason. Usually I cry and it's for a reason and feels good. This makes me feel hopeless.

 

Ugh I've cried more in the last couple months than I probably have in my whole life. And not just light sad tears, but full on bawling like a baby. I hate it. For some reason I haven't had any intense crying episodes since last Thursday when I started working on acceptance. Before that it was at least once a week. I still feel the tears well up sometimes but I'm not feeding into it I guess so it's not turning into a tsunami. 

 

For the most part the seroquel and gabapentin are doing a pretty good job helping facilitate 7 or even 8 hours of sleep but sometimes I just can't stay asleep and who knows why. I'll probably stick to this combo since it's probably going to be easier to get off of when the time comes (does that sound right FH? i only take them both before bedtime so once a day). How long before the sleep typically starts to return to normal? Is it sooner than the 6-8 months? 

[fishinghat]

Frog, are you kidding me? When I had my episodes it was more ;like 2 or 3 times a day. You are lucky.

[invalidusername]

Frog and MX...

 

It might interest you to know that I had EXACTLY the same thing with the sleep myself today. Woke up after 5 hours sleep and then just couldn't get back to sleep. Once I got over the initial "here we go again" recollection of my various other withdrawals, I started having those "dream but not dream" things you are saying and exactly that something anxious would bring me round each time. It is all a chemical imbalance for sure.

 

I know that my GABA has been messed about with, but given that I am also on Celexa, I reckon something is going on there too. GABA needs serotonin (and glutamate amongst others) to function, so if I were to look into it further, I would hazard a guess that something has become unwired in my serotonin circuits somewhere as a result of the excess GABA production. And this is not the level we are talking about with theanine, I took in excess of 1gm of Phenibut which really put my levels through the roof.

[frog]

Frog and MX...

 

It might interest you to know that I had EXACTLY the same thing with the sleep myself today. Woke up after 5 hours sleep and then just couldn't get back to sleep. Once I got over the initial "here we go again" recollection of my various other withdrawals, I started having those "dream but not dream" things you are saying and exactly that something anxious would bring me round each time. It is all a chemical imbalance for sure.

 

I know that my GABA has been messed about with, but given that I am also on Celexa, I reckon something is going on there too. GABA needs serotonin (and glutamate amongst others) to function, so if I were to look into it further, I would hazard a guess that something has become unwired in my serotonin circuits somewhere as a result of the excess GABA production. And this is not the level we are talking about with theanine, I took in excess of 1gm of Phenibut which really put my levels through the roof.

 

That's so interesting. I really hope it's not permanent. How would one rewire the circuits?!

 

I should know this but how long ago did you stop taking Cymbalta? (I do recall reading that your doctors forced you to cold turkey which still horrifies me to this day...)

[invalidusername]

Frog, this is for sure as a result of my messing with Phenibut last week - nothing to do with Cymbalta.

 

I stopped Cymbalta November 2018 - and yes, the p-doc (now fired from his position), took my bead stash away at 10mg and caused me weeks of hell. And I don't give a damn that he lost his job. 

[frog]

Tomorrow I drop down to TWO beads. I really feel like I could just ditch them altogether but better safe than sorry. 

 

IUN thank you so much for the recommendations for Claire Weekes. Maybe it was pure coincidence but I had the longest stretch of good to great days since I listened to her talk back on 1/30 and started trying to practice acceptance. Actually on Friday I had the best day I've had in over 3 months. I felt practically completely normal. My husband and I went out for breakfast and I even requested to go out for one beer after work. Something we used to do all the time.

 

Saturday I had my appointment with the psych nurse. I was anxious going into it because I was fearful that he might not be satisfied with where I'm at still, but I was feeling pretty good going into it (didn't cry even once!) and he said that I seemed way more hopeful and optimistic than previous sessions and that we should just keep status quo for now. What a relief! I felt great after leaving the appointment. 

 

Unfortunately Saturday evening I was feeling a bit irritable and it turned into a fight between me and my husband about our apartment and I think it really took things downhill. Stress really is such a trigger right now. By bedtime I wasn't even upset anymore but my mood was bad and I didn't sleep well at all and it spilled into Sunday and having more anxiety all day. I think I made things worse by taking a bath. For some reason the past few months baths worsen my anxiety which is bizarre because by all accounts it should be relaxing. I felt about as awful as ever and on the verge of a panic attack and even though I felt better by bedtime I really had a hard time falling asleep. I'm struggling today to maintain a positive attitude. Trying to remind myself that this dip isn't going to last forever but I can't help but get scared that I will be forever stuck in this cycle of ups and downs. Things eventually completely even out right?

[fishinghat]

Things do even out, slowly, but they do even out.

[Mxpro32]

I feel ya frog. I had my best day yet a couple days ago, now I've been crying and feel like my best days are behind me. objectively this is completely ridiculous. My life is damn near perfect. I have a loving wife, 2 healthy kids, a wonderful house with a big yard for the kids to play, and a big shop on the property where I run my dream business. I'm fortunate that I have a great life waiting for me at the end of this. I seem to be going in 3 day cycles. 3 good, 3 where I'm emotional and depressed. That's much better than it was though.

[frog]

Always good to hear from you mxpro. I have a lot to be grateful for too and I think that's what frustrates me because I want to get back to enjoying all those things without worrying what any particular day might bring. I'm tired of wasting time treading water. I still find it impossible to make any ahead plans because it's so 50/50 on what any particular day might be like. All I can do is take advantage of a good day when I have it. I made the usual mistake of getting too hopeful about the state of my recovery while I had a series of easier days and today is knocking my confidence again. 

I think the fact that both of us recognize we're being ridiculous when our thoughts turn hopeless is part of getting better. For a long time I relied on my husband and my mom to keep a steady stream of optimism coming my way because I couldn't find it myself. Now I'm trying hard to remind myself that things will get better again and over the past 14 weeks no matter how much I convinced myself I wouldn't see a good day again, it did eventually come. 

 

When you say you have 3 good days, are they great days or just devoid of terribleness? I haven't really found a pattern yet but it seems like very frequently a good day is followed by a worse day. Not necessarily terrible but just not as good. I haven't really been able to string more than maybe 2 great days in a row at best. It kind of really does feel like the brain gets the mix right and instead of just sticking to it the next day it tries something else that sucks. 

[Mxpro32]

The 3 day pattern is a rough pattern. I count neutral days as good days, but I've also had some normal days and great days mixed in. Lately my bad days I feel like crying a lot. My great days are typically followed by a bad day. The day of or after my counseling session tend to be pretty good. How well I sleep seems to have a lot to do with how well I feel.

[gail]

Hello Frog,

Just read your post, you are an example of patience, we need it all along our recovery.
14 weeks with no good days, and now you are starting to get a taste of normalcy. Good for you.

I'm in my fifth bad day, a pattern since menopause, I can go up to thirty bad days. My goodness, I'm so happy when the good times come. I quit cymbalta five years back, so it's my brain that decides of the days. Like you, I never make plans, not knowing how I'll feel.

Be brave Frog, as you know, progress is not linear, like wax and wane. My surname by my ex, was Mon crapeaud,My frog. He called yesterday, CRAPEAUD???? I rarely answer my phone when in the dumps.

And I cry like I never cried, in the morning specially. One day, these tears will be tears of joy. Love!

[invalidusername]

Righto Frog...

 

This is exactly how things go. You did great with these days and then a little stress hits and the wound is open again, you become vulnerable. Totally normal. Now you need this to pass and it will. You will go round in this loop for a while, but your tolerance to stress WILL improve but it takes time. It's taken me around 2 years!! But I had a significant life "event" at the time.

 

The argument between you and the hubby is just bad timing. Without this, you probably would have found your mood remaining relatively stable. Now you will need to keep telling yourself that this is responsible for your mood. ACCEPT it.

 

The more you can remain "normal", the easier it will be to recover as you are sending the normal routine chemicals and hormones into your system and it will be telling the brain what you expect from it!

 

And should it help, my wife went through a long phase of baths doing the same thing - plus making her OCD worse at the same time. This also passed. As did the smell of living with a wife who didn't take baths

[frog]

Hello Frog,

Just read your post, you are an example of patience, we need it all along our recovery.
14 weeks with no good days, and now you are starting to get a taste of normalcy. Good for you.
 

Oh gosh! 14 weeks with no good days would be a nightmare. Fortunately that wasn't the case for me. It's primarily in between days with occasional good days mixed in and occasional tough days. It's just that even on the good days things didn't quite feel back to normal either. It was like mxpro described, like the good days were just days devoid of being terrible, not that they were necessarily super enjoyable. BUT last Friday really felt normal like my old self. Everything came easily, no anxiety, no adrenaline, could do whatever I felt like doing. 

 

So sorry to hear you're going through a patch of bad days. I hope the good ones come real soon! Should we call you frog instead?

[frog]

 

Righto Frog...

 

This is exactly how things go. You did great with these days and then a little stress hits and the wound is open again, you become vulnerable. Totally normal. Now you need this to pass and it will. You will go round in this loop for a while, but your tolerance to stress WILL improve but it takes time. It's taken me around 2 years!! But I had a significant life "event" at the time.

 

The argument between you and the hubby is just bad timing. Without this, you probably would have found your mood remaining relatively stable. Now you will need to keep telling yourself that this is responsible for your mood. ACCEPT it.

 

The more you can remain "normal", the easier it will be to recover as you are sending the normal routine chemicals and hormones into your system and it will be telling the brain what you expect from it!

 

And should it help, my wife went through a long phase of baths doing the same thing - plus making her OCD worse at the same time. This also passed. As did the smell of living with a wife who didn't take baths

 

 

I'm trying very hard to be 'normal'! It definitely felt like I spiraled after the argument. Hopefully I'm on the up again and I can reach another wonderful day like last Friday very soon. Maybe even two days?! Dare to dream. The comedown after having such a lovely day was a bit harsh. 

 

The bath thing is very odd. I think it's the heat? I like my baths and my showers pretty hot and maybe the heat has some kind of adrenaline boosting effect on my system. I will have to power through the showers. I work in an office and I don't want to be fired for smelling like a farm animal!

[invalidusername]

There may be something in it as many people often report that cold showers reverse signs of depression and anxiety - I forget the science, but it has been tried and tested - not by me!! So logically, the reverse may have the effect on others.

 

Maybe try a cold shower and see if it has the desired effect - other than making you very cold of course

[fishinghat]

I am getting old and forgetful but I distinctly remember some research I posted about your body being stressed above a certain temp and below a certain temp under certain situations. I wish I could remember that and what caused it.

 

[frog]

I love taking hot showers and baths as a way to warm up when I feel cold (which is often. I'm pretty sure I don't have the most efficient blood circulation as my nose, hands and feet are often very cold) so a cold shower sounds horrible!!!

[frog]

I am getting old and forgetful but I distinctly remember some research I posted about your body being stressed above a certain temp and below a certain temp under certain situations. I wish I could remember that and what caused it.

 

Oh man that would be interesting! 

 

 

OH also I forgot to mention that today I'm on just 2 beads of Cymbalta  

As a note to anyone new, this is not from my initial taper, but just from the 7 beads I reinstated after being thrown into full blown withdrawal. I'll be on this for 2 weeks, then down to 1 bead for 2 weeks, then FINITO! Smell ya later Cymbalta

[invalidusername]

I am getting old and forgetful but I distinctly remember some research I posted about your body being stressed above a certain temp and below a certain temp under certain situations. I wish I could remember that and what caused it.

 

 

11,289 posts Hat - don't be too hard on yourself my dear brother...

[fishinghat]

I just blame it on the Cymbalta IUM.  lol

[invalidusername]

I just blame it on the Cymbalta IUM.  lol

 

Who is this IUM you speak of?!

 

(I am in stitches of laughter here!!)

[fishinghat]

At my age you are lucky I came that close!!  lol

[frog]

This is mostly for FH: 

 

I had a lot of trouble with gastrointestinal symptoms for like 3 months of withdrawal. Finally in the last month or so things started to improve a lot on that front and I think it was really starting to fade away, only worsening again when my anxiety levels would rise. This week though has been pretty bad again although my anxiety has actually been low, but coincidentally this week I also started consistently taking a probiotic in the morning.

 

I'm taking the Renew Life ultimate flora 15 billion. Is it possible that the probiotic is causing diarrhea? It's hard to find any information since all the articles that pop up only talk about how it actually helps cure it. Should I stop taking it or is this a common startup side effect and will go away in another week or so? 

 

Thanks for you help as always!

[fishinghat]

It is possible as the good bacteria (probiotics) will cause the bad bacteria to slowly die out. As the bad bacteria die they release endotoxins that can cause the diarrhea. This usually fades after a week or two.

[frog]

I decided to ditch the probiotics for now. Gastro issues like that cause me a lot of extra worry and anxiety and that's just not something I need right now. I'll try again once I'm in a better place with my recovery. I took Imodium on Friday when it was really bad and thankfully Imodium works VERY well for me. I had no more issues the rest of the weekend and Saturday my husband and I took a little half day trip an hour away to check out a couple breweries and the Charles M Schulz (Peanuts creator) museum. What a treat. This is the farthest I've gone out of town in 4 months with the exception of one work trip. Anxiety was really low, no ruminations. Actually most of last week I had pretty low anxiety and no negative spiraling thoughts.

 

On the flip side I was VERY tired most days. I think this is partly related to a Seroquel hangover but also low blood sugar or something as I'll start to get a little lightheaded and feel like my eyes are having a harder time focusing. Most days last week I also felt kind of... flat, mood-wise. I don't know what that's about. Maybe it's just the foreignness of not having anxiety and having gotten so used to feeling agitated all the time, that the absence of it almost feels wrong. I'm trying to not overthink it or even think about it at all. The tiredness is really getting to me though because I still can't nap and am stuck waiting around until I can take my sleep aids when it's an appropriate time to go to bed. 

 

Has anyone had this kind of trouble with falling asleep: right when I'm fully relaxed and am about to cross over into sleep, I get almost like a surge of adrenaline that wakes me up again with my heart beating fast. I can try this for any period of time and it'll just keep happening. It's like my brain thinks falling asleep is dangerous and is trying to prevent me from doing it. This has only started during withdrawal, I've never had an issue like this before. The Seroquel's sedative properties are able to overpower this and put me to sleep but I'm worried that it's permanent? 

[fishinghat]

Once the anxiety starts to break it is common to suffer from fatigue as the body has been running on high for so long it needs rest.

 

That sudden surge of adrenaline when you are just about to go to sleep is common during withdrawal. IUN know a lot about that and I am sure he will jump in later.

[invalidusername]

Thanks Hat... yes Frog, I am all too aware of this phenomenon. What you are experiencing are hypnic jerks, or "sleep starts". 

 

You have the most common type where you are bought around by a anxious jerk. Others feel like they are falling, or being hit by something. They aren't nice but they will fade over time. Very rarely is it a condition that persists. VERY rarely. From what I can tell, it is just another part of the cortex that is re-righting itself after being controlled by the meds.

 

I had it during withdrawal, and then occasionally at times of stress. 

 

I now get something known as "exploding head syndrome". Honestly - it is a real thing!! When I am really stressed, I "hear" a really loud sound like a buzz of digital distortion, or like a snythesized clap of thunder just as I'm about to nod off. That is even worse as it scares the crap out of you - especially if you don't know what it is. 

[frog]

I now get something known as "exploding head syndrome". Honestly - it is a real thing!! When I am really stressed, I "hear" a really loud sound like a buzz of digital distortion, or like a snythesized clap of thunder just as I'm about to nod off. That is even worse as it scares the crap out of you - especially if you don't know what it is. 

 

Woh. Brains are weird, man... I do hope my problem just goes away instead of morphing into something else. 

 

I had heard of hypnic jerks, but I thought it was always accompanied by a physical jerk, which I do not have. It's literally just in my mind and then racing heart and sometimes that warm feeling that accompanies an adrenaline rush. I'm really glad to know it will go away with time. Any idea how long it takes? Is it one of those things that's the last to go or will it subside as the anxiety subsides? 

[invalidusername]

The hypnic function doesn't always have to engage a muscle group, but the diagnosis is the same. Just like people who feel they are falling down a hole, they don't neccessarily jolt when they "re-boot". They can be a real pain, but you just need to keep telling yourself they are nothing to be concerned about... and 99.9% of the time when encountered during withdrawal, they will pass.