109 replies to this topic

[Cp23]

Yes, subjectivity is a difficult one. Especially when it's the spouse reporting on moods. I can pick good moods and bad moods, and overall we've had way more 'good' moods than bad ones in the past 3 weeks. Again, I'm defining a good mood as not vocalising any negative thoughts, and not letting them become all encompassing. 

 

My bigger, long term fear is how I learn to cope with the bad times, as they do come. 

[invalidusername]

"My bigger, long term fear is how I learn to cope with the bad times"

 

Welcome to our world!!

[fishinghat]

I agree with IUN. Cautious optimism. As far as coping with the bad moods, well they should slowly fade. All you need is time and patience.

[Cp23]

My comment around bad moods is regarding her depression when it does hit. Obviously the cymbalta kept it in check to an extent. My worry is post withdrawal when she does hit a wall, and how badly it affects her.
Her post natal depression was awful, but she did suffer from depression prior to kids as well. Fatigue and a baby(s) made it worse.
Time will tell and I hope I have better coping mechanisms now. I know for a fact I'm a better man than what I was. I'm generally more relaxed, so I hope that this hold me in better stead.

[invalidusername]

I fully understand the pressures of caring for a partner with mental health - you need your own coping mechanisms just as much as she does...

[EveAndTheSnake]

Cp23, I'm sorry that this is something that you and your wife have to go through but if it's any consolation at all, you sound like an absolutely wonderful partner. I'm sure that she appreciates everything that you do for her even though she might not be able to express it at the time. The extent of your interest and understanding of her feelings and mood go above and beyond, she's lucky to have you. 

[Cp23]

Hi Eve, 

Thank you. I'm incredibly pragmatic about most of this. I tend to have a fairly cynical outlook on life (I always have), and a self loathing that is somewhat unexplainable. Having said that, i've never fallen into a depression for more than a few days. As much as I am cynical, I also see the silver lining, and can see the good in things. So it's a bit of a curious relationship I have with myself. I am committed to her on such a level that may not always be the most healthiest for me. Prior to meeting my wife in my early 20s, I would always refer to myself internally in the third person. Ie, I'd look in the mirror and think / say 'wow you really are ugly', or 'wow you're such a loser' and what not. It was somewhat of a disassociation with who I am. I met my wife, we started dating and almost overnight, I took ownership, I stopped being 'you', and started being 'I' or 'Im'. It was a marked difference, one I can't explain, but she saved me. I owe it to her. 

Cheers

[Cp23]

Brief update, we're on day 48 now, and she's good. We've had a few times where she's been in a bad mood, but these were due to circumstances outside of her control. She's been really good with the kids, me and even a visit from my folks. We made love yesterday for the first time in over a year.

I can not begin to explain how proud and amazed I am, she's doing so remarkably well. 

Again thank you for all your support.

[invalidusername]

I am so happy for you.... and once again, it is great to see the wonderful things that can emerge as a result of removing oneself from these meds. Really looks like you are on the home straight... go out and embrace the new found freedom!

[Cp23]

So a brief update, day 52 and everything is good, except for sleep. 

She can't sleep before 11-12 most nights, and then every few days after she'll go to bed early. 

 

This isn't a new symptom, but I'm wondering if anyone has experience with it and expected time frames?

[fishinghat]

Troubles sleeping occur typically through the entire withdrawal process. It is also one of the last symptoms to go away but it does get better. I am going to post a document on how to sleep better and maybe you can get something useful out of it.

[fishinghat]

How to Sleep Better

 

Tips for Getting a Good Night’s Sleep

 

Tip 1: Keep a regular sleep schedule
Getting back in sync with your body’s natural sleep–wake cycle—your circadian rhythm (daily rhythm)—is one of the most important strategies for achieving good sleep. If you keep a regular sleep schedule, going to bed and getting up at the same time each day, you will feel much more refreshed and energized than if you sleep the same number of hours at different times. This holds true even if you alter your sleep schedule by only an hour or two. Consistency is important.

Set a regular bedtime. Go to bed at the same time every night. Try not to break this routine on weekends when it may be tempting to stay up late. No more than 15 minutes earlier or later each day.

Wake up at the same time every day. If you’re getting enough sleep, you should wake up naturally without an alarm. If you need an alarm clock to wake up on time, you may need to set an earlier bedtime. As with your bedtime, try to maintain your regular wake–time even on weekends.

Nap to make up for lost sleep. If you need to make up for a few lost hours, use a daytime nap rather than sleeping late. DO NOT NAP MORE THAN 1 HOUR PER DAY as it may affect your evenings sleep. DO NOT NAP AFTER 5 PM. The best time to nap is early afternoon.

Fight after–dinner drowsiness. If you find yourself getting sleepy way before your bedtime, get off the couch and do something mildly stimulating to avoid falling asleep, such as washing the dishes, calling a friend, or getting clothes ready for the next day. If you give in to the drowsiness, you may will usually wake up later in the night and have trouble getting back to sleep.

Tip 2: Naturally regulate your sleep-wake cycle

Melatonin is your naturally produced hormone that regulates your sleep. Melatonin production is controlled by light exposure. Your brain will secrete more in the evening, as it becomes darker, Conversely, during the day your brain detects increasing light levels and begins producing serotonin, which causes one to wake and be alert.

Spending long days in an office away from natural light, for example, can impact your daytime wakefulness and make your brain sleepy. Then bright lights at night—especially from hours spent in front of the TV or computer screen—can suppress your body’s production of melatonin and make it harder to sleep. However, there are ways for you to naturally regulate your sleep-wake cycle, boost your body’s production of melatonin, and keep your brain on a healthy schedule.

Increase light exposure during the day
Remove your sunglasses in the morning and let light onto your face.
Spend more time outside during daylight. Try to take your work breaks outside in sunlight, exercise outside, or walk your dog during the day instead of at night.
Let as much light into your home/workspace as possible. Keep curtains and blinds open during the day.
Boost melatonin production at night
Turn off your television and computer. Many people use the television to fall asleep or relax at the end of the day. Not only does the light suppress melatonin production, but television can actually stimulate the mind, rather than relaxing it. Try listening to music or audio books instead, or practicing relaxation. If your favorite TV show is on late at night, record it for viewing earlier in the day.
Don’t read from a backlit device at night (such as an iPad). If you use a portable electronic device to read, use an eReader that is not backlit, i.e. one that requires an additional light source such as a bedside lamp.
Change your light bulbs. Avoid bright lights before bed, after 7 PM do not use a light greater than 25 watts. Reduce light exposure by significantly reducing the brightness on your TV or electronic device.
When it’s time to sleep, make sure the room is dark. The darker it is, the better you’ll sleep. Cover electrical displays, use heavy curtains or shades to block light from windows, or try an eye mask to cover your eyes. Most patients with chronic problems blacken their bedrooms entirely. Do not use nightlights if it can be done safely. Block all windows in the bedroom so light can not enter.
See... https://www.ncbi.nlm...n00057-0027.pdffor details

 

Tip 3: Create a relaxing bedtime routine
If you make a consistent effort to relax and unwind before bed, you will sleep easier and more deeply. A peaceful bedtime routine sends a powerful signal to your brain that it’s time to wind down and let go of the day’s stresses.
Keep noise down. If you can’t avoid or eliminate noise from barking dogs, loud neighbors, city traffic, or other people in your household, try masking it with a fan, recordings of soothing sounds, or white noise. You can buy a special sound machine or generate your own white noise by setting your radio between stations. Earplugs may also help. Sound machines can be purchased at local department stores.

Keep your room cool. The temperature of your bedroom also affects sleep. Most people sleep best in a slightly cool room. A bedroom that is too hot or too cold can interfere with quality sleep.
Make sure your bed is comfortable. You should have enough room to stretch and turn comfortably. If you often wake up with a sore back or an aching neck, you may need to invest in a new mattress or a try a different pillow. Experiment with different levels of mattress firmness, foam or egg crate toppers, and pillows that provide more support.


Relaxing bedtime rituals to try

Read a book or magazine by a soft light
Take a warm bath
Listen to soft music
Do some easy stretches
Wind down with a favorite hobby
Listen to books on tape
Make simple preparations for the next day
DO NOT exercise or do any significant physical activity after 6 PM. Anything considered work (laundry, dishes, etc) must be avoided after 6 PM.

 

Tip 4: Eat right and get regular exercise

Your daytime eating and exercise habits play a role in how well you sleep. It’s particularly important to watch what you put in your body in the hours leading up to your bedtime.
Stay away from big meals at night. Try to make dinnertime earlier in the evening, and avoid heavy, rich foods within two hours of bed. Fatty foods take a lot of work for your stomach to digest and may keep you up. Also be cautious when it comes to spicy or acidic foods in the evening, as they can cause stomach trouble and heartburn.
Avoid alcohol before bed. Many people think that a nightcap before bed will help them sleep. While it may make you fall asleep faster, alcohol reduces your sleep quality, waking you up later in the night. To avoid this effect, so stay away from alcohol in the hours before bed.
Eliminate caffeine. You might be surprised to know that caffeine can cause sleep problems up to ten to twelve hours after drinking it! No chocolate, most teas, coffee.
Avoid drinking too many liquids in the evening. Drinking lots of water, juice, tea, or other fluids may result in frequent bathroom trips throughout the night. Caffeinated drinks, which act as diuretics, only make things worse.
Quit smoking. Smoking causes sleep troubles in numerous ways. Nicotine is a stimulant, which disrupts sleep. Additionally, smokers actually experience nicotine withdrawal as the night progresses, making it hard to sleep.
Eliminate stimulants. No sugars, salty food or MSG. Sugar is a stimulant which can increase blood pressure and pulse. It can take significant time to process this material and slow down your metabolism. Salts like table salt and MSG provide sodium which is used by the body to help carry electrical system in our bodies. This can also increase heart rates and metabolism for several hours.
If you’re hungry at bedtime
For some people, a light snack before bed can help promote sleep. When you pair tryptophan–containing foods with carbohydrates, it may help calm the brain and allow you to sleep better. For others, eating before bed can lead to indigestion and make sleeping more difficult. Experiment with your food habits to determine your optimum evening meals and snacks. If you need a bedtime snack, try:

A small bowl of whole–grain, low–sugar cereal
Granola with low–fat milk or yogurt
A banana (not sugary fruits)
You’ll also sleep more deeply if you exercise regularly. As little as twenty to thirty minutes of daily activity helps. And you don’t need to do all thirty minutes in one session. You can break it up into five minutes here, ten minutes there, and still get the benefits. Try a brisk walk, a bicycle ride, or even gardening or housework. Serious exercise, even small amounts, must be done before 6 PM.
Some people prefer to schedule exercise in the morning or early afternoon as exercising too late in the day can stimulate the body, raising its temperature.

 

Tip 5: Get anxiety and stress in check
Do you find yourself unable to sleep or waking up night after night? Residual stress, worry, and anger from your day can make it very difficult to sleep well. When you wake up or can’t get to sleep, take note of what seems to be the recurring theme. That will help you figure out what you need to do to get your stress and anger under control during the day:
If you can’t stop yourself from worrying, especially about things outside your control, you need to learn how to manage your thoughts. When trying to go to sleep it is essential not to think about work, money, your family’s problems or other stressful subjects. These are very detrimental to sleep. Do not think about exciting subjects (a vacation, your favorite hobbies, etc.). Instead pick something mundane (boring). Pick a subject like weeding you garden, cleaning your car, etc. It will be difficult to stay focused on these boring subjects at first but it will become easier with time and practice.
If the stress of managing work, family, or school is keeping you awake, you need help with stress management. By learning how to manage your time effectively, handle stress in a productive way, and maintain a calm, positive outlook, you’ll be able to sleep better at night.

 

Relaxation techniques for better sleep
Deep breathing. Close your eyes—and try taking deep, slow breaths—making each breath even deeper than the last.
Progressive muscle relaxation. Starting at your toes, tense all the muscles as tightly as you can, then completely relax. Work your way up from your feet to the top of your head.
Visualizing a peaceful, restful place. Close your eyes and imagine a place or activity that is calming and peaceful for you. Concentrate on how relaxed this place or activity makes you feel.

 

Tip 6: Ways to get back to sleep
It’s normal to wake briefly during the night. In fact, a good sleeper won’t even remember it. But if you’re waking up during the night and having trouble falling back asleep, the following tips may help.
Stay out of your head. Hard as it may be, try not to stress over the fact that you’re awake or your inability to fall asleep again, because that very stress and anxiety encourages your body to stay awake.
Make relaxation your goal, not sleep. If you are finding it hard to fall back asleep, try a relaxation technique such as visualization (focus your eyes on something in the room), deep breathing, or meditation, which can be done without even getting out of bed. Remind yourself that although they’re not a replacement for sleep, rest and relaxation still help rejuvenate your body.

Stretching. If you wake during the night do NOT fight it or panic. If you can not go to sleep in 10 to 15 minutes, get up, wake 20 or 30 feet, stretch (touch your toes or stretch your arms), walk back to bed and lay back down again. Each time you stretch and lay down your body will produce a small amount of endorphins which help the body relax.

Postpone worrying and brainstorming. If you wake during the night feeling anxious about something, make a brief note of it on paper and postpone worrying about it until the next day when you are fresh and it will be easier to resolve. Similarly, if a brainstorm or great idea is keeping you awake, make a note of it on paper and fall back to sleep knowing you’ll be much more productive and creative after a good night’s rest.

[Cp23]

So I figure I give a brief update as to where we are right now. I think she has the sleeping down now, and is back to her old self in that regard. 

My concerns at the moment are that she is bored at home during the day, which is both a good and a bad thing. Good in that I think she will soon be ready to return to work after a long stint out. However it's also bad in that it adds potential complexity and stresses that she' possibly not yet ready to handle. 

The other concern is regarding her mood -- she's not overly anxious or stressed, she's talkative about things, but also telling me that she's not 'right' emotionally. I can put this down to a few things, it's either recurrent depression (possible, but her depression used to put her in a deep dark hole). This is more likely due to her premenstural week which started 3 days ago.  

Again though I will only know with the help of hindsight. This time last cycle we had a bit of the same.

[invalidusername]

Yes - stick to what you know. She will feel uneasy for a while yet - it is to be expected.

 

Stress is defined as wanting to be in a different state than you currently are and not being able to get there. Acceptance and knowledge is the key to this problem.

 

I'm useless at it - but I know the theory! 

 

Fine line between depression and boredom too, so measure the return to work carefully. 

 

Thanks for the update.

[Cp23]

Day 73 -- she is still having lots of trouble sleeping. Other than that, she's fine. 

[invalidusername]

Looking good! Happy for the both of you...

[fishinghat]

I think she has got it made now. The sleeping will get better.

[Cp23]

A quick update on my Mrs. She's through it. We made it out the other side.

[Cp23]

In addition our relationship is now stronger than it's been in a long time. Thank you for the support and kind words. I didn't know if we'd make it through, but we did.

[fishinghat]

Fantastic

[invalidusername]

Great news! Nice to see these moment from our users...

[Cp23]

Day 111 and we just threw out the tablets. Very proud at this stage

[fishinghat]

Party time!!! So proud of both of you. Congratulations.

[invalidusername]

...as you should be!! Congratulations!

[Cp23]

So another update. Day 135.
I get a fairly chunky bonus every year from work. This year we've used some of it to pay for my wife to go on a holiday / adventure to Tanzania to climb Mount Kilimanjaro and see the Serengeti.
I suggested that she do this about 4 weeks into the cold turkey where I felt like she needed something to look forward to. The great thing is that she's taken to getting fit and has had something to focus on. She goes in early December for 15 days, I'll be at home with the kids, so this is a huge adventurr for her. In addition she enrolled in a computer science course starting next year. To say I'm a proud husband at the moment is an understatement.
Every day away from cymbalta is another step in the right direction.
Yes she needed them when she did, and they helped, but she no longer needs them.
/happy man

[fishinghat]

Now that is a good husband. Way to go.

[Cp23]

I try. But I have found through experience that she is excited about life when she has things to look forward to.

[invalidusername]

Let's make it a forum group outing!! LOL.

 

Hope you are feeling fit Hat!

 

That is a lovely thing to do, and a great way to mark her achievement. Thanks for sharing such a lovely turn of events through the last few weeks.

[fishinghat]

I can't go IUN. I am allergic to lions!!!

[Cp23]

So in a few days my wife embarks on a journey of a lifetime. I am scared, envious and excited all in one. She's a ball of anxiety and stress which is to be expected. 

Since she stopped in June, we've had a few stressors:

1. The initial month of withdrawls -- I never wish to experience that again as a partner. 

2. The next few months of sleeplessness and occassional sadness (again linked primarily to her cycle). 

3. A friends wedding in which she was the maid of honour -- which was incredibly stressful for her.

4. Organising this trip -- doubt as to if she'd go (ie, dont get hopes up until it's paid for), worrying about fitness, about me and the kiids.

5. Organising going back to university -- doubt.

 

She leaves on Friday, at present she's quite highly strung and anxious. Quite short with the kids (understandable given their behaviour at present).

 

The funny thing is, I'm insanely proud of her for wanting to do this.