1636 replies to this topic

[ForLyla]

FH arent CYP enzymes also used by cymbalta?

[fishinghat]

Yes, but not the CYP3A,

[ForLyla]

I have the feeling that anything that works on cyp enzymes in the liver can interact with cymbalta. I dont think that all the ppi's worked on the same cyp enzymes as cymbalta either but they affected absorption.

[ForLyla]

Not feeling good today at all. I had to fast yesterday for the sibo test and I havent felt good since. Heart pounding is back etc.

[fishinghat]

I tend to agree with your statement about the CYP enzymes and ppis.

 

Yes, fasting reduces blood sugar and increases adrenaline. It will pass.

[ForLyla]

Thanks FH. So antibiotics are a bad idea? I'm going to try the naturopathic way first. Mostly liquid elemental diet and maybe some herbs they recommend. I'll run it by you guys first.

[fishinghat]

The naturopathic way seems to have limited effectiveness but should be safer depending on what they use. If that doesn't work them there will be no choice but antibiotics. There is little to indicate a reaction BUT....

[ForLyla]

I think starving the sibo with a low carbohydrate diet could work in theory. They need certain foods to ferment and survive. The naturopath will probably want me to take anti microbes like oil of oregano and thymus vulgaris. Antibiotics are the worst and I truly believe they caused all my gut issues and SIBO to begin with. 

[fishinghat]

Give it a shot.

[ForLyla]

FH any interactions with oregano oil you can find or have heard of?

[fishinghat]

Will check.

[fishinghat]

This is all I could find.

Oregano Side Effects (webmd)
Bleeding disorders: Oregano might increase the risk of bleeding in people with bleeding disorders.

Allergies: Oregano can cause reactions in people allergic to Lamiaceae family plants, including basil, hyssop, lavender, marjoram, mint, and sage.

Diabetes: Oregano might lower blood sugar levels. People with diabetes should use oregano cautiously.

Surgery: Oregano might increase the risk of bleeding. People who use oregano should stop 2 weeks before surgery.

https://healthfully....no-5082181.html
Allergic reactions are possible.

Inhibits Iron Absorption

Possible Interactions
CAMline, an online database of information about complementary and alternative medicine, warns that oil of oregano may potentiate or amplify, the effects of certain medications. CAMline cites reports that oil of oregano has anticoagulant properties, suggesting at least in theory that its use in combination with anticoagulant medication could increase the effects of that medication, perhaps beyond desirable levels. Similar reactions have been observed when oregano derivatives are used with anti-diabetic medications and supplementary sources of hormones, such as birth control pills or hormone replacement therapy. CAMline emphasizes that more extensive studies will be needed to fully document the dangers, if any, of such interactions.

http://essentialoils.../toxic-oils.htmgives details on each toxic essential oils.
While oil of oregano is not on their list I could not find any record of any research into possible liver toxicity. I did find considerable evidence that purified thymol from oregano is very destructive to the liver.

https://www.tandurus...de-effects.html
What Are The Symptoms And Effects Of Oregano Oil Overdose?

I could find no research on any interactions of oil of oregano with medications, other food, etc.

[ForLyla]

Thanks FH! Any info on DGL? I know concentrated licorice can be an issue for some.

I did find this...

The most widely reported side effect of glycyrrhizin use via consumption of black licorice is reduction of blood potassium levels, which can affect body fluid balance and function of nerves.[5][6] Chronic consumption of black licorice, even in moderate amounts, is associated with an increase in blood pressure,[6] may cause irregular heart rhythm, and adverse interactions with prescription medicines.[5

[fishinghat]

DGL stands for Deglycyrrhizinated licorice so the glycyrrhizin has been removed and would not be an issue.

This is all I have on DGL. I could not find anything on its effects on sibo.


Licorice


https://howtotreathe...or-acid-reflux/
Licorice root has been used to treat digestive issues like dyspepsia, heartburn, stomach ulcers, and sore throat for centuries, however, the glycyrrhizin component in licorice root, the root of Glycyrrhiza glabra, can cause health problems. Fortunately, these negative side effects can be avoided. Deglycyrrhizinated licorice (DGL) is available. DGL is a dietary supplement that has had the glycyrrhizin component of licorice removed. It’s a much safer option.


Wendy McLean. Herbal and Nutritional Solutions for Upper Digestive Complaints. Journal of the Australian Traditional-Medicine Society. Vol. 24, No. 4, Summer 2018: 264-266.
Deglycyrrhizinated licorice (DGL) soothes the gastrointestinal (GI) tract including the esophagus by increasing mucus production. This increase in mucus builds up the mucous membrane which coats and protects against acid irritation like heartburn and allows for healing of irritated or damaged tissue including ulcers.

Russell Setright. Prevention of Symptoms of Gastric Irritation (GERD) Using Two Herbal Formulas: An Observational Study. Journal of the Australian Traditional-Medicine Society. Volume 23 Issue 2 (Winter 2017).
Scientific studies have found DGL to be more effective in treating gastroesophageal reflux disease (GERD), chronic acid reflux, symptoms than commonly used antacids


Ann Ming Yeh and Brenda Golianu. Integrative Treatment of Reflux and Functional Dyspepsia in Children. Children (Basel). 2014 Sep; 1(2): 119–133.
and
K.R. Raveendra, Jayachandra, V. Srinivasa, K.R. Sushma, J.J. Allan, K.S. Goudar, H.N. Shivaprasad, K. Venkateshwarlu, P. Geetharani, G. Sushma, and A. Agarwal. An Extract of Glycyrrhiza Glabra (GutGard) Alleviates Symptoms of Functional Dyspepsia: A Randomized, Double-Blind, Placebo-Controlled Study. Evidence-Based Complementary and Alternative Medicine, 2012;2012:216970.
GutGard is a clinically-studied DGL extract that has been proven to provide relief from dyspepsia and acid reflux


Ann Ming Yeh and Brenda Golianu. Integrative Treatment of Reflux and Functional Dyspepsia in Children. Children (Basel). 2014 Sep; 1(2): 119–133.
and
J. Melzer, W. Rosch, J. Reichling, R. Brignoli, and R. Saller. Meta-analysis: Phytotherapy of Functional Dyspepsia with the Herbal Drug Preparation STW 5 (Iberogast). Alimentary Pharmacology and Therapeutics, 2004; 20: 1279–1287.
Iberogast by Medical Futures Inc. is a proprietary blend of herbal extracts including DGL that is designed to alleviate heartburn, accelerate gastric emptying, reduce gastric pain and cramping, and gas and bloating.
Iberogast like GutGard in Rhizinate has been clinically proven to relieve dyspepsia and acid reflux

[ForLyla]

Alright so my mystic healer had prescribed the following...

Allium sativum
Oregano oil
Alpha lipoic acid
Bismuth subnitrate
Black cumin seed
Goldenseal
Thymus Vulgaris
Commiphora


I'm doing a search if any of these will interact with duloxetine. FH or any of you that find or know of an interaction then please let me know!
Thank you!

[ForLyla]

From my research, it looks like Goldenseal wouldn't be safe. Oil of oregano is one on the NO list for Benzo Buddies as it can effect gaba. Garlic can increase serotonin levels.Commiphora and Bismuth subnitrate are suspect as well. Looks like this is bad news! 

 

I might just have to take the antibiotics and be on a partial elemental diet. 

[fishinghat]

I totally agree. To many things to add at once anyway. I also think this would be a bad idea.

[ForLyla]

So what are my options do you think? I cant just leave sibo as is. I need to do something about this without it destroying my withdrawal syndrome. The two options left are the elemental diet or Rifaximin. But remember, pantoprazole doesn't use the same enzymes as duloxetine and look what happened there.

I already feel like hell and I'm not sure why. Either it was from my fast or taking the oil of oregano.

[fishinghat]

You have got to get this under control if you are going to get better long term. The Rifaximin nay be your best bet and it will only need to be taken for a short period of time. During that time you WILL have intestinal issues as the bad bacteria die. But you would with the elemental diet as well. At this point it may be a matter at looking forward to the future and hanging on.

I do agree with your concerns about Rifaximin and it possibly effecting your withdrawal. What else can you do?

[ForLyla]

I've only taken 2 of the garlic and biofilm pills (ALA, Bismuth subnitrate, and black cumin seed extract) and I seem to be doing ok so far. The DGL gave me stomach pain. Oregano oil seems to give me bad side effects but I might be willing to take one more pill tonight and make sure that's the case. 

 

Do things that naturally increase serotonin cause problems? For instance, I know that eating turkey increases serotonin. Does that mean eating turkey can destabilize us?

 

Thanks

[fishinghat]

Things that increase serotonin either has bad effects on withdrawal or help with withdrawal and has a withdrawal of ots own later. Examples 5htp, tryptophan, dextromethorphan and many more. Tryptophan from diet ( such as turkey, chicken...) also contain enzymes and minerals that effect its absorption, both positive and negatively. These items are called co-factors. Eating chicken may or may not increase your serotonin based on these co-factors as well as their status in your body. A self limiting mechanism so you do not over assimilate the tryptophan. Even with all of our discoveries, most supplements do not contain co-factors and therefore their effects are not limited except for their absorption rate.

[ForLyla]

Thanks FH for your research. I have one last one - allicin (garlic extract). Can you dig up any dirt on it? And by dirt, I mean would it effect cymbalta absorption in any way?

[fishinghat]

Will check in a little bit.

[ForLyla]

There may come a time soon when I'll have to get off this drug quickly. God help me, I dont know if I'll be able to make it or how I'd even go about doing it.

[fishinghat]

Sorry Lyla. Got caught up on things. Working on it now.

[fishinghat]

I found no information on the relationship between garlic and Cymbalta. Nothing to even suggest anyone has done any research on the subject.

[ForLyla]

I took a couple of dgl pills. FH from my research it looks like it works on the same enzymes. P450

Dgl- cyp2b6, cyp2c9

Cymbalta- cyp2d6

Is this correct? I'm assuming this would cause an interaction.

[fishinghat]

Those are 3 different enzymes and the 2 listed for DGL don't match the one for Cymbalta. However as you well know you can't trust that.

[ForLyla]

That's true but they're all P450 enzymes. Wouldn't any drug that works on that group of enzymes affect one another?

[fishinghat]

No, Each CYP has its own unique gene that determines its structure. These enzymes are a long strand of 1 million atoms or more. But they are not liner. Think of them like a ball of string a cat plays with. In general they are a sphere but have ends sticking out and dimples in them. They are like other compounds in the sense it depends on what chemicals make them up and what their charge is (positive or negative) BUT most important is the dimples or pockets on the surface of the CYP enzyme. Each different CYP enzyme has its own well defined structure and arrangement which is determined by our dna. Those 'pockets' on the outside of the enzyme are the active bonding sites. As each enzyme has a unique structure to those binding sites only certain compounds will attach there. So the cyp2d6 enzyme will allow Cymbalta to attach to the binding site nit NOT garlic. The cyp2b6 will have a binding site that DGL will fit but not Cymbalta.
 

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