1636 replies to this topic

[ForLyla]

Alpha amylase
Betaine hydrochloride
Bromelain
Papain
Papaya

Just waiting for the bad news on how THIS is bad now! Ugh

I was feeling good this morning but not having a good day since around noon. Not sure why. Feeling very anxious today with akithisia. I took a digest enzyme shortly before I felt bad so was wondering if that's why. OR maybe because I had extra sleep last night which my body isnt used to. Anyway, I took a non-drowy antihistamine and that seems to calm me down.

Thanks Hat

[ForLyla]

Just took my first dose of lansoprazole. Please say a prayer for me. Another day another poison!

[ForLyla]

Havent gone crazy yet from the Lansoprazole but only took a quarter dose last night. I'll try half a dose tonight and see how that goes. It's not fast acting like the pantoloc sodium though that's only a 10 day prescription. This is 4-6 weeks.

[fishinghat]

Alpha amylase

Alpha-amylase, (α-amylase) is an enzyme that hydrolyses alpha bonds of large, alpha-linked polysaccharides, such as starch and glycogen, yielding glucose and maltose. It is the major form of amylase found in humans and other mammals
Nothing significant found.
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Betaine hydrochloride - (Trimethylglycine)

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4991651/
It is not uncommon to see PPI-induced hypochlorhydria (low stomach acid) in patients on long-term PPIs. The “HCL Challenge” followed by supplementation (HCL/betaine/pepsin) is usually well tolerated and when used appropriately can stabilize physiological processes, support nutrient assimilation, and aid in the digestion of proteins (providing amino acids and preventing food allergies).

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3946491/
Gastric Re-acidification with Betaine HCl in Healthy Volunteers with Rabeprazole-Induced Hypochlorhydria
Note - Raises stomach acid content.

"The Food and Drug Administration of the United States approved anhydrous trimethylglycine (also known by the brand name Cystadane) for the treatment of homocystinuria, a disease caused by abnormally high homocysteine levels at birth.[11] TMG is also used as the hydrochloride salt (marketed as betaine hydrochloride or betaine HCl). Betaine hydrochloride was once permitted in over-the-counter (OTC) drugs as a gastric aid in the United States. US Code of Federal Regulations, Title 21, Section 310.540, which became effective on November 10, 1993, banned betaine hydrochloride from being used in OTC products due to insufficient evidence to classify it as "generally recognized as safe and effective".[12]

TMG supplementation may cause diarrhea, stomach upset, or nausea. TMG supplementation lowers homocysteine but also raises LDL-cholesterol.[13] Wiki

https://www.drugs.co...de-effects.html
Betaine - Side Effects
Diarrhea
nausea
stomach upset
Betaine may cause a body odor. Other side effects not listed above may also occur in some patients. If you notice any other effects, check with your doctor.

https://vitagene.com...e-hydrochloride
Betaine Hydrochloride increases stomach acidity, so antacids will debilitate. For the same reason, H2-blockers and Proton-pump Inhibitors (PPIs) will be less effective. The H2 blockers include cimetidine (Tagamet), ranitidine (Zantac), nizatidine (Axid), and famotidine (Pepcid). PPIs include omeprazole (Prilosec), lansoprazole (Prevacid), rabeprazole (Aciphex), pantoprazole (Protonix), and esomeprazole (Nexium).
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Bromelain

https://examine.com/...osition_sources
Bromelain is a crude extract that comes from pineapples, particularly the stems or immature fruits; thus Bromelain is sometimes referred to as Pineapple extract.

3Digestion and the Intestinal Tract
The general idea of Bromelain and digestion, as well as the entire protease class, is that they may contribute for an otherwise impaired digestive system.[17] Bromelain has some other effects extending beyond its activities as a protease, however.
3.1Gastric
Bromelain has been shown effective in reducing dyspepsia in persons without heliobactor pylori infections when in conjunction with other nutraceuticals.[18]
3.2Intestinal
Via its protease activities, bromelain can slow down intestinal motility in rats and in vitro.[19] Its activities are inhibited by PAR-2 (receptor sensitive to proteases) as well as PDE4 and PLC downstream of the receptor, suggesting mechanisms of action.[19]
3.3Colonic
An oral dose of 2-20mg bromelain in drinking water once daily is able to reduce inflammation in a murine model of colonic inflammation, and theoretically may aid inflammatory bowel disease (IBD).[20] Controlled doses of 2mg and 5mg showed benefit, although 2mg was too low to be significantly different than control.[20
Side-effects with moderate to higher dosages (400-800mg) tend to be gastrointestinal in nature, including pasty feces and farting.[6]

https://www.rxlist.c...supplements.htm
Are there any interactions with medications?
Amoxicillin (Amoxil, Trimox)Interaction Rating: Moderate Be cautious with this combination.Talk with your health provider.
Taking bromelain with amoxicillin might increase how much amoxicillin is in the body. This might increase the effects and side effects of amoxicillin.
Medications that slow blood clotting (Anticoagulant / Antiplatelet drugs)Interaction Rating: Moderate Be cautious with this combination.Talk with your health provider.
Bromelain might slow blood clotting. Taking bromelain along with medications that also slow clotting might increase the chances of bruising and bleeding.
Some medications that slow blood clotting include aspirin, clopidogrel (Plavix), diclofenac (Voltaren, Cataflam, others), ibuprofen (Advil, Motrin, others), naproxen (Anaprox, Naprosyn, others), dalteparin (Fragmin), enoxaparin (Lovenox), heparin, indomethacin (Indocin), ticlopidine (Ticlid), warfarin (Coumadin), and others.
Antibiotics (Tetracycline antibiotics)Interaction Rating: Minor Be cautious with this combination.Talk with your health provider.
Taking bromelain might increase how much antibiotic the body absorbs. Taking bromelain along with some antibiotics called tetracyclines might increase effects and side effects of these antibiotics.
Some tetracyclines include demeclocycline (Declomycin), minocycline (Minocin), and tetracycline (Achromycin).
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Papain

https://www.rxlist.c...supplements.htm
Are there any interactions with medications?
Warfarin (Coumadin)Interaction Rating: Moderate Be cautious with this combination.Talk with your health provider.
Warfarin (Coumadin) is used to slow blood clotting. Papain might increase the effects of warfarin (Coumadin) and increase the chances of bruising and bleeding. Be sure to have your blood checked regularly. The dose of your warfarin (Coumadin) might need to be changed..

 

Note - May slow blood clotting.

https://www.verywell...le-side-effects
Little is known about the long-term safety of papain supplements. Due to the lack of safety research, papain should be avoided in children, pregnant women, and nursing mothers
High oral doses may cause side effects, including stomach upset and throat irritation. Dosages in excess of 1,500 milligrams (mg) per day are associated with an increased risk of esophageal perforation.
Perhaps the greater concern is the risk of allergy in people exposed to papain. The risk appears to be greatest in people with a known allergy to latex or kiwi. Symptoms can range from mild to severe and includes an itchy mouth, watery eyes, sneezing, nasal congestion, excessive sweating, and diarrhea.
On rare occasion, exposure to papain can lead to a potentially life-threatening, whole-body reaction known as anaphylaxis
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Papaya

https://www.rxlist.c...supplements.htm
Are there any interactions with medications?
Medications for diabetes (Antidiabetes drugs)Interaction Rating: Moderate Be cautious with this combination.Talk with your health provider.
Papaya that has been fermented might decrease blood sugar in people with type 2 diabetes. Diabetes medications are also used to lower blood sugar. Taking fermented papaya along with diabetes medications might cause your blood sugar to go too low. Monitor your blood sugar closely. The dose of your diabetes medication might need to be changed.
Some medications used for diabetes include glimepiride (Amaryl), glyburide (DiaBeta, Glynase PresTab, Micronase), insulin, pioglitazone (Actos), rosiglitazone (Avandia), chlorpropamide (Diabinese), glipizide (Glucotrol), tolbutamide (Orinase), and others.
Warfarin (Coumadin)Interaction Rating: Moderate Be cautious with this combination.Talk with your health provider.
Warfarin (Coumadin) is used to slow blood clotting. Papaya might increase the effects of warfarin (Coumadin) and increase the chances of bruising and bleeding. Be sure to have your blood checked regularly. The dose of your warfarin (Coumadin) might need to be changed.

Are there safety concerns?
Papaya is LIKELY SAFE for most people when taken by mouth in amounts commonly found in foods.
Papaya is POSSIBLY SAFE when taken by mouth as medicine.
Papaya is POSSIBLY UNSAFE when taken by mouth in large amounts or when applied to the skin as papaya latex. Taking large amounts of papaya by mouth could damage the esophagus, which is the food tube in the throat.

Special Precautions & Warnings:
Pregnancy and breast-feeding: Papaya is POSSIBLY UNSAFE when taken by mouth during pregnancy. Do not take papaya by mouth in medicinal amounts if you are pregnant. There is some evidence that unprocessed papain, one of the chemicals found in papaya, might poison the fetus or cause birth defects. Not enough is known about the safety of papaya during breast-feeding. It is best to avoid taking it in amounts higher than normal food amounts.

Diabetes: Papaya that has been fermented can lower blood sugar. People with diabetes who are taking medications to lower their blood sugar should pay close attention to their blood sugar as adjustments to medications might be needed.
Low blood sugar: Papaya that has been fermented can lower blood sugar. Taking this form of papaya might make blood sugar too low in people who already have low blood sugar.
Papain allergy: Papaya contains papain. If you are allergic to papain, avoid eating papaya or taking products that contain papaya.
Latex allergy: If you are allergic to latex, there is a good chance you are also be allergic to papaya. If you have a latex allergy, avoid eating papaya or taking products that contain papaya.
Surgery: Papaya that has been fermented can lower blood sugar. In theory, this form of papaya might affect blood sugary during and after surgery. If you are taking papaya, you should stop 2 weeks before surgery.

[Polly38]

Glad the Lansoprazole was OK Lyla. I'll read the info about enzymes with interest too Hat. Thanks.

I've got the every other day thing going on still. Really bad stomach pains yesterday and breathing OK. Today my stomach is completely fine but it feels like someone is sat on my chest. Very scary! My nose and ears are very congested and I wonder if it's got anything to do with that? My one ear is completely blocked so I'm having it syringed in 10 days.

The not being able to breathe is so scary and frustrating and I'm doing my best to ignore it.

[ForLyla]

Polly. It sounds like we have something very similar going on. Sounds like your eustacian tube is blocked so I don't think cleaning your ears will do any good. I just bought a 12 inch bed wedge off Amazon so maybe that will help with my nightly reflux issues. 

 

I definitely am still skeptical about the Lansoprazole on many levels. I took a tiny dose last night. I'm going to try as short a run on it as possible. The minute my symptoms go away I'm off of it. 

[Polly38]

We have propped our bed up with a 4 inch block of wood and that has helped massively with reflux during the night. Since I have been taking Ranitidine the reflux is so much better. I don't like taking it though.

I feel like my sinuses are blocked. The doctor looked in my ears and said the left one is completely blocked with wax. How would I unblock my eustacian tube?

[ForLyla]

Polly. You just have to stop this cycle of acid reflux. Fix your stomach and the throat stuff will go away. Reducing your stress level will go a long way in stopping the inflammation and helping with digestion. 

[Polly38]

Ok thanks. The breathing issue has got so bad today. I feel like I am gasping for air! It's really scary

[Polly38]

How do I stop the cycle of reflux? I'm taking Ranitidine and changing my diet. I've got nothing to be stressed about either so I'm having trouble trying to understand it all

[ForLyla]

Being in an acute withdrawal stage is enough to set off a bout of gastritis and gastric motility problems. This will wreck havoc with acid reflux. Time is the best healer but taking a ppi like lansoprazole is sometimes the only option (hence why I'm regretfully taking it despite the possible consequences). The enzymes may really help you as well. 

[ForLyla]

HAT I'm really interested why a non-drowsy antihistamine is so effective in giving me temporary relief from anxiety related to withdrawal? I need your god like wisdom to explain this to me!

[Polly38]

Thanks Lyla. Is it acute withdrawal what I'm in? Does that mean it's going to last for ages?😒. Sorry, am panicking now.

Which antihistamine do you take please?

[invalidusername]

Apologies for taking a back seat on this discussion, but this stomach stuff is really Hat's forte - there is very little I can add to what he can tell you...

 

Polly, I am really sorry to hear you still have this recurring theme every other day. As far as the eustacian tube is concerned, you can't unblock with a baby bud unfortunately (!), but if you have an ear blocked that is the first thing to sort out as this will cause issues for the eustacian tube. 

 

It is difficult to explain the function of it, but it balances out the pressure in the ear. Think of a fuel system in a car. The engine "sucks" fuel from the tank into the engine. If there wasn't the equivalent of a eustacian tube known as the tank breather, the fuel tank would end up compressing like a juice box when you take a massive sip!! This is the same with the ears, so when they compress like the juice box, this is when your hearing goes funny - just like when your ears "pop" taking off in an airplane. This is when things happen too quick for the eustacian function to keep up. When we walk up and down hills and so forth, it has time to balance so you don't have it happen.

 

I can continue....

 

Does this all make sense??

[fishinghat]

Most non-drowsy meds contain a stimulant to keep people from getting too sleepy. This stimulant is usually very bad for Cymbalta withdrawal. I too would like to know what antihistamine it is. I would bet it contains Phenylephrine (or less likely Pseudoephedrine).

[ForLyla]

It's Aerius (loratadine) non-drowsy tablets. They make me feel so much better, at least temporarily. Not sure if they give me bad rebound affects or not but in benzo withdrawal they used to make me feel a lot better as well as long as I take them sparingly. 

 

Since withdrawal (both benzo and cymbalta) my body is a factory for histamine, as are we all, I think. That seems to be a big problem with my anxiety, skin issues, stomach etc. 

[Polly38]

Thanks all. The antihistamine I took yesterday is Cetirizine but I do have Loratidine. Would that be better? It does make sense IUN - would it affect my breathing? I have woken up this morning feeling really congested and my chest feels weak and I had the sweats - still breathing erratically. No stomach pain yet though.

Does this all still sound like withdrawal? I know I need to try and not focus on it but it's hard🙄😫.

Thanks.

[fishinghat]

Lyla, Polly, as far as how it works, well that is a good question. Research shows that it is usually a mild stimulant and slightly raises blood pressure, causes heart pounding and such. Research also shows that in a small portion of patients taking loratadine there is a DROP in bp and a mild calming effect. There has been some discussion but all theoretical as to why the confounding effects but nothing for sure.

[fishinghat]

Polly, I looked at the FDA records and theyn say that around 4.1% of the people taking Cetirizine report shortness of breath as a side effect and 5.5% with loratadine. It maybe that you have a sensitivity to antihistamines,



loratadine - inverse agonist of peripheral histamine H1 receptors, meaning it binds to the H1 receptor but does not stimulate it, it actually quiets it.

Cetirizine - a highly selective antagonist of the histamine H1 receptor, which means it binds to the H1 receptor and reduces the activity of it. This would make loratadine more powerful in reducing the activity of the H1 receptor.

[ForLyla]

FH I'm not experiencing any noticeable setback yet from the ppi, however, I am worried about it as it builds up in my system. Pantoloc sodium is fast acting whereas this one takes time. Do you think it would affect me right away with symptoms or is this going to be lagging as it builds up? Also, some people talk about tapering off a ppi. I've never tapered off them before but it can mess with your gut health apparently. What kind of mess am I getting myself into?

[fishinghat]

Lansoprazole has one of the shortest half-lifes of all ppi, 1.5 to 2.1 hours so it is essentially out of the body within 8 hours. It is recommended that is be taken in the morn in g so it can help reduce acid production during the day, the peak time for acid production. Some of the breakdown components are still in the system for another 2 to 4 hours past that so buildup in the body should bot be an issue. Buy any chance is yours enteric coated?

[ForLyla]

Hey FH. It says "capsule DR" on the medicine container. Does that mean delayed release? It doesn't say EN on it. Will that make a difference?

I really hope that's the case and that I don't develop any side effects. I took a quarter pill the first day and a half pill the next day and haven't noticed anything really either good or bad. My acid reflux isn't really any better yet but I know from past experience that these don't usually work right away. I actually take it about an hour before dinner though thinking that it might help keep the acid low with the biggest meal and while I'm lying down.

Thanks again!

[fishinghat]

Yes, DR means delayed release which is one step below enteric coated. I will check on its life span in a minute. The manufacturer suggests in the morning but you may have to play with it a little. What meal has the most protein in it typically?

[ForLyla]

Polly my shortness of breath is bad today. I'd stick with the most likely answer which is reflux. Just give it time and/or take lansoprazole if needed.

[fishinghat]

Ok, delayed release slows the absorption by about 1 hour.

So regular Lansoprazole has one of the shortest half-lifes 1.5 to 2.1 hours so it is essentially out of the body within 8 hours. Some of the breakdown components are still in the system for another 2 to 4 hours past that so buildup in the body should bot be an issue.

Delayed release has a half-life of 1.9 to 2.9 with it being out of the system in about 10 hours and another 2 to 4 hours for the metabolites. So a total of 12 hours max.

Data on both says 1 - 4 days to see improvements.

[Polly38]

Thanks Lyla. I've been taking Ranitidine for a week now and it says it can take 2 weeks for your symptoms to improve, so I'll stick with it.

Sorry yours is bad today. Hope it passes soon🙏.

[ForLyla]

FH should I wean off of it or can I stop it suddenly? I dont plan on taking it more than 4 weeks.I suppose I should weigh the beads. I'm just eyeballing it right now. You're pretty certain that it doesnt affect cymbalta absorption at all?

I'm so paranoid!

[fishinghat]

I could find nothing in the literature to indicate weaning. Several of the research articles mentioned that at the end of their test they stopped the use of the drug and did not mention weaning.

 

I think eyeballing it is good enough for now. I am about 90% sure that there would be no interaction with Cymbalta but that is an educated guess you understand. 

 

Paranoid is part of the experience.  lol

 

Been there done that.

[ForLyla]

I'll take 90%! When I took the other ppi (pantoloc sodium) I had severe reaction almost immediately. I'm skeptical because I haven't taken a med or supplement in withdrawal that hasn't made me feel way worse!

Last question (for now), should I be taking it at a different time of day or does that matter? I took it about 4 hours after my cymbalta today. Tomorrow I'll switch over to the morning.

[fishinghat]

I would say morning or lunch depending on when you eat the most protein.