1636 replies to this topic

[ForLyla]

So it turns out I have 3 rather large kidney stones in me. Blood tests show that I have reduced kidney function and they don't know why but maybe the stones... who knows. It looks like I'll have to have the stones broken up through lithotripsy. Seeing as how every single thing I've done medically has caused me much worse problems than what I was orignally treating them for I think this will be the one that does me in but keeping my fingers crossed. Also, they will want to put me to sleep for the procedure or at least give me a local anesthetic so how bad will that set me back? 

[fishinghat]

This may be good news in disguise. Reduced kidney function allows antidepressants to build in the system as well as some minerals so this may ne causing a lot of your issues with the withdrawal,. Once the kidney issue I sover and done with insist on a serum calcium and magnesium test. Cymbalta withdrawal often screws them up and bad kidney function will make that worse. Out of whack calcium and magnesium will greatly aggravate the withdrawal and cause major sleep issues. Any problems with cramps, muscle spasms or restless leg lately?

[fishinghat]

The anesthesia usually doesn't hurt the withdrawal any BUT in your case I would opt for a local anesthetic. General anesthesia is often Versed which is a benzo sedative. Probably not good timing. Locals are not usually benzos.

[ForLyla]

Thanks FH. This may be a silly question but I had a lemongrass drink today and i found out later it was fermented. Does that mean there's alcohol in it? I only had anout 100ml of it. I'm worried about everything these days.

[fishinghat]

The alcohol would be minute and should not matter. Was it made fermented or did it just spoil on the shelf?

[ForLyla]

Ya it was fermented. Anyway, I guess I shouldn't worry about that too much. Also, it seems like my insomnia phase is over and I've entered into a rebound fatigue phase, although the fatigue isn't too bad outside of the mornings. I guess now I just need to focus on getting these damm stones out of me. In a fair amount of pain that comes and goes and my specialist appointment isn't for 20 days. I may end up in emergency if it gets worse. 

[fishinghat]

I hope that they get taken care of soon. Hang in there.

[invalidusername]

Ditto - really feel for you going through all of this.

 

Mental health is one thing... you throw in physical health and there is goes. 

[ForLyla]

Last question for you guys and I'll stop bugging you. What pain med would be best for managing the pain and not upsetting withdrawal? If a stone obstructs would opioids be alright? They commonly use things like morphine or fentanyl. Keep in mind it would only be short term use for a day or two until they did surgery.

[fishinghat]

I wouldn't really expect any issues with most painkillers except the Versed. 

[ForLyla]

I'm in one hell of a funk today. My anxiety is through the roof and in a bad wave since last night. I'm still trying to figure out what my triggers are in WD.

FH do you know if cbd acts on the same receptors as benzos? I loaded up on a lot of cbd last week to help me sleep... wondering if that's why in paying the price with anxiety right now.

[fishinghat]

Your trigger for your withdrawal? Easy, kidney stones. They effect the excretion of meds.

CBD (Cannabidiol)
low affinity for the cannabinoid CB1 and CB2 receptors
antagonist of GPR55, a G protein-coupled receptor
inverse agonist of GPR3, GPR6, and GPR12.
serotonin 5-HT1A receptor partial agonist.
modulator of the μ- and δ-opioid receptors

No effect on Gaba receptors.

[ForLyla]

But it does on serotonin? So couldn't that potentially be detrimental to cymbalta wd?

[fishinghat]

Hard to say. Cymbalta slightly changes the shape of serotonin receptors and this data is from tests on normal receptors. Whether or not the CBD would still be an agonist of a Cymbalta altered serotonin receptor is unknown. I would assume that it would still have some agonist effects and could negatively effect withdrawal BUT that may be off set by its effects on opioid and CB receptors.

Clear as mud right?

[invalidusername]

Interesting point raised - but if we are really splitting hairs here, we are none the wiser of how residual effects may impact on other receptors in the brain from one chemical/med to another. Throw in the subjective element and we can really get lost in the mud!

 

Unfortunately, unless there is tried and tested knowledge of consistent results, the only way is the "suck it and see" method. The dose of the secondary antagonist (in this case the CBD) will also impact, and the ratio to which that impacts the primary receptor (serotonin) may also exponentially increase or decrease. Way too many variables, and as supplements to benefit withdrawal is not something that the hard sciences will readily throw money at, we are unlikely to know!

[ForLyla]

I'm not going to take anything anymore and try live in the most natural state possible. Our nervous systems cant tolerate too much of anything. I think long-term it's the only way to heal. It's also frustrating that I spent so long trying to avoid alcohol like my life depended on it and I ended up having it from a health drink. Nothing sets me back worse than alcohol . I dont know if you guys gets this but I know its going to be a bad day when I wake up and I see flashes of light when my eyes are still closed. It lasts for about a minute or two.

[fishinghat]

For lyla
 
That sounds like partial detachment of the vitreous humour from the back wall of the eye. It is a very common occurrence beginning around 60 years old give or take 10 years. As we begin to age the vitreous humour (the liquid in the eyeball) begins to shrink and will eventually parts will pull away from the back wall of the eyeball. This not only creates the lightening bolts we sometimes see (especially when moving our eyes quickly from side to side) but also can cause a marked increase in floaters.

[invalidusername]

Yes, the only concern is when you start to have loss of peripheral vision, like curtains/drapes coming in from extreme left and right. Or if you continually get a lightening bolt from the very far end of your vision when you move - both of these can be a sure sign or retinal detachment and needs immediate attention. All will be fine as long as it is reattached within a few hours. 

[ForLyla]

For me it's a wd symptom. It usually comes in the throes of a wave and only when I first wake up.

[invalidusername]

As long as it doesn't persist then it is not a detachment - or shouldn't be. If you are worried then you you need to be checked out.

[ForLyla]

No I had my eyes checked. They seem to be ok. Just wondering if anyone else had it. Maybe it's a benzo symptom because that's when it started but most of the symptoms in benzo wd are the same as cymbalta wd.

On another note, I took cbd a couple days ago and my anxiety has died down. I started a journal so I'm going to see day to day how I react from it. I know after a benzo it would take about 5 days before I'd have a reaction.

[invalidusername]

Aside from blurred vision, I have not had any such symptoms, but I have had "floaters" for as long as I can remember. Anything odd with my eyes is just a matter of course for me!

 

Journals are always a good thing when it comes to diagnosing things. But you have to make sure you leave them at that. I often make the mistake at looking back on my mood and it can bring me right down when I see things not going quite as they should... or like today.. I have looked back on a week that started to turn things around and just because it is a Monday, I am feeling the pressure to keep this going. What should a new week have to do with anything? It is simply because I start a new piece of paper. It is all psychological!

[ForLyla]

Ya I try to keep that in mind as much as possible when I journal.

I definitely feel that going clean off all medications and supplements is the way to go for me. Our bodies are trying to tell us to let them be free of outside pollutants and our nervous systems are too fragile for the high doses we get in most supplements.

[invalidusername]

If I wasn't so fearful of the withdrawal that lies ahead, I would begin my tapering of the Citalopram. But having gone through all manner of pills changes over the last 9 months, my system just will not tolerate it. I knew the recent switch from Lexapro to Citalopram was going to be tough, but I had no choice due to the physical problems. I knew there would be more in store as soon as I switched. The metaphor I have used is that I feel like I have run a marathon and have been told it was only the half I have done, and that there is another 15 miles still to do. 

 

I don't think writing off the supplements is always good in the short term - they can balance the nervous system while you are going through the detox of the medication. The problem is in the way in which the SSRI's work. The closest supplements that mimic the behaviour of such drugs (5HTP, Kava etc) all work in a totally different method than plugging up the receptors. Sure these supplements can aid insomuch that they produce the serotonin that your system will be missing, but the reversal of the receptor damage caused by the meds will always have to be a long drawn-out self-repair process. Short of Omega 3 and so forth which can proverbially hand the spade, but the brain is the one doing all the manual labour. Nothing but Hat's proverb of time and patience.

[fishinghat]

Detachment of the vitreous humour from the back wall of the eyeball will fade in and out but is permanent generally and exists in nearly all people over 50. Detachment of the retina can often be repaired if caught in the first few hours after it happens. If later then it it usually permanent and leads to blindness. As IUN said, watch out for the "curtain that may cover part of your field of vision".  If this ever happens go straight to the drs office. By the way, an optometrist is not qualified to diagnose a detached retina. It should always be done by an ophthalmologist.
 
The detachment of the vitreous humour is often most noticeable first thing in the morning and is harder to detect when standing, in bright light or when blood pressure is high. I would be most interested to know if you could detect it if in the afternoon you go to a dark room, lay down for 3 or 4 minutes to lower blood pressure and then see of you can detect it as well. If not then it is likely to be a withdrawal effect and may assist others to know that in the future. It is essential to get your bp down prior to trying to determine if the lightening bolts are still there. Let me know what you find out please.

[ForLyla]

The strobe light sensation only happens when I first wake up and while my eyes are closed. It's definitely not separate from withdrawal. It happens when I'm in a wave but not when I'm feeling ok.

What do you guys suggest I do now? Should I stay at 25mg? Would it be bad to taper at 1% a month for the time being?

[fishinghat]

Thank you for the information on the lights. Very interesting.

If in doubt, I would stay at your current dose until you feel strong enough you are SURE you can handle it.

[ForLyla]

Its impossible to know whether the wd is causing my symptoms now or if it's taking the drug. I mean how could I know?

[fishinghat]

If it is from taking the drug it would have been there from the beginning. If it is from withdrawal it will fade with time.

[ForLyla]

But dont we get into tolerance withdrawal eventually?