894 replies to this topic

[invalidusername]

Interesting... I will need to invest in a BP cuff, but a good investment all the same.

 

I am usually somewhere between 105~120 systolic, but it would be interesting to see how the meds/supplements are affecting these figures, and as you say, see if there is any correlation between the two. The ash/theanine is for sure making me a bit more lethargic, but there is also no doubt in my mind that it has helped considerably with the stress lately. It will be two weeks tomorrow that I started the two, and reduced the Lexapro to 10mg. 

 

In an ideal world, I would have had more of a normal 2 weeks so that I could observe the effects of this switch more objectively. With all that has happened over the last few days, it is very difficult to see what has caused what.

[invalidusername]

A quick search shows that theanine not only controls BP during times of stress, but reduces overall with continued use - exact figures not shown. Ash is also shown in studies to reduce BP by around 1-2%. In itself is not much, but combined with the theanine. Lexapro doesn't report such instances except in extreme cases, and high blood pressure is a more likely side effect.

[gail]

Sweet Scrat,

What a beautiful update. The overdoing can also be the reason for your symptoms.
but minus this, to read it made smile and happy.

Fisherman,

You mean to say that when we're sleepy during the day, bp drops
And when anxiety is present, bp rises. Correct?
Is that general for all? Thank you Fisherman.

[fishinghat]

You got it right Gail. Sleepiness is a sign of overmedication when treating anxiety. Being over anxious is reflected in high bp and indicates you need to increase your medication of slow your withdrawal.

[invalidusername]

Well the interesting observation during this week is that I have progressively woken (last 3-4 days) feeling that I had very little sleep - not in an anxious way - in a fatigued way. I put this down to all the physical work I was doing, and when I started my day, although it was there, I could carry on all the same. It was yesterday when it started to feel more of a problem.

 

It is a tough call as to what could cause this, but I think monitoring BP is a good idea.

[invalidusername]

For anyone reading this - I have discovered the labeled phenomenon that occurred this week, and is referred to as "General Adaptation Syndrome"...

 

 

General adaptation syndrome stages

 

1. Alarm reaction stage

The alarm reaction stage refers to the initial symptoms the body experiences when under stress. You may be familiar with the “fight-or-flight” response, which is a physiological response to stress. This natural reaction prepares you to either flee or protect yourself in dangerous situations. Your heart rate increases, your adrenal gland releases cortisol (a stress hormone), and you receive a boost of adrenaline, which increases energy. This fight-or-flight response occurs in the alarm reaction stage.

 

2. Resistance stage

After the initial shock of a stressful event and having a fight-or-flight response, the body begins to repair itself. It releases a lower amount of cortisol, and your heart rate and blood pressure begin to normalize. Although your body enters this recovery phase, it remains on high alert for a while. If you overcome stress and the situation is no longer an issue, your body continues to repair itself until your hormone levels, heart rate, and blood pressure reach a pre-stress state.

 

Some stressful situations continue for extended periods of time. If you don’t resolve the stress and your body remains on high alert, it eventually adapts and learns how to live with a higher stress level. In this stage, the body goes through changes that you’re unaware of in an attempt to cope with stress.

 

Your body continues to secrete the stress hormone and your blood pressure remains elevated. You may think you’re managing stress well, but your body’s physical response tells a different story. If the resistance stage continues for too long of a period without pauses to offset the effects of stress, this can lead to the exhaustion stage.

 

Signs of the resistance stage include:

• irritability
• frustration
• poor concentration

 

3. Exhaustion stage

This stage is the result of prolonged or chronic stress. Struggling with stress for long periods can drain your physical, emotional, and mental resources to the point where your body no longer has strength to fight stress. You may give up or feel your situation is hopeless. Signs of exhaustion include:

• fatigue
• burnout
• depression
• anxiety
• decreased stress tolerance

The physical effects of this stage also weaken your immune system and put you at risk for stress-related illnesses.

[fishinghat]

Believe it or not IUN I am in perfect agreement. It gives a good overview of the acute stress stage and the longer chronic adrenergic state. Excellent basic description of the stages of stress. However do note that the effects of AD withdrawal stress do bot necessarily follow this pattern due to the imbalance in neurotransmitters.

[invalidusername]

Absolutely, but as a "general" plot of stages it is a good framework.

 

It is at least comforting to see that what has occurred is within keeping of the "norm". Despite the exhaustion, today has not been too bad. I am trying to reflect on that which I have achieved this week, which I would never have considered in the previous 4 months. Regardless of the fact there is still distance to be covered, there is progress here.

[invalidusername]

Need some input here.

 

I woke after a solid 9 hours sleep and didn't wake once and whilst not fully with it, didn't feel like yesterday. I then took my lexapro, suntheanine and ash... had a little lay and after 20-30 minutes I couldn't keep my eyes open, but it is not a nice tired and it worries me. Feel dizzy and mood is very down. 

 

Strong suspicion that the ash/theanine is too much? Or at least I shouldn't be taking it when I am resting?

[fishinghat]

"Strong suspicion that the ash/theanine is too much? Or at least I shouldn't be taking it when I am resting?"

I agree with both.

[invalidusername]

Thanks Hat.

 

I shouldn't have taken this morning - or at least waited until later, but when I woke, I wasn't feeling so burnt out.

 

Will see what happens tomorrow.

 

Just got back from parents as they were promised their garage back by the end of week. There were tools and bit of car everywhere. Just done 2 hours of cleaning and moving feeling like a zombie. No idea how I did it. Again, shouldn't have done it, but doing it on a working day would be a no-brainer.

[KathyInFL]

Hope you feel better, IUN!

 

Can I ask a non-med question? Well I am, whatever you say! Why is Britain leaving the EU? Is this something that everyone wants? What's the story behind it? 

[invalidusername]

Thanks Kathy. Back in bed and resting for the time being.

 

The Brexit question is not an easy one to answer. Essentially, the idea of leaving came up a while back and we were promised a whole bunch of stuff that would improve once we come out of the EU. When it was put to vote, everyone was pissed off with the immigration situation, and as this was one of the things that we were told would improve, loads of people thought it best to vote leave and read between the lines.

 

As time has gone on, these people have realised that coming out is going to not work quite as well as planned as there is a lot of stuff that the government has promised which is based on a lot of other stuff going right... which probably won't, and therefore, the UK market will collapse, immigration won't get better for a long time as we already have too many - and many other things. 

 

Now the public are asking for a re-vote, after which we will vote to leave. But as this will make the Prime Minister look like a complete tit, they are holding back and trying to rally to the cause of it all being alright... but it ain't. The vote was taken too early in my opinion, and not enough was known before doing so.

 

So we are currently sitting on the line inbetween not really knowing where we are going!!

[invalidusername]

I woke up 2 hours ago, and had my Lexapro, but nothing else. I rested for about half hour but was restless. I am now still in bed feeling very exhausted, but I am not to the point of drifting in and out of sleep. The combination of restlessness and exhaustion is very painful. I really don't like it.

 

I can at least see that the ash/theanine were adding to the fatigue, but its not helping me much right now. I am getting sick of being confined to the bed. Mood is failing as a result.

[gail]

Hi Scrat,

Can you relate all this to your week of overdoing it?? Or simply a passing thing?

After a good week, this is hard to accept or more precisely to simply let it be.

The wax and wane still stands in your situation of withdrawal. I can't remember how long it has been since your last bead.

When I joined the ranks , five years back, the saying was that at 12 weeks you begin to see the light. Followed by more good days but still bad days.

Rest sweet Scrat, and try to let it be. Love, Gailage. A little prayer on the way.

[fishinghat]

I would try both but at a lower dose. It may be enough to offset the restlessness without causing more fatigue. Just a thought.

[invalidusername]

Shortly after the post, I had a call from a client to say their website had gone wrong. Someone had got into their admin overnight. Was a quick fix, but was enough to tip me over to feel horrible stress. I then decided to take my theanine (not ash) and brave working. It did take the edge off, but again, I was (and still am) so so very tired. 

 

Gail - am 13 weeks off Cymbalta and 9 weeks off Citalopram - so around 3 months and  months respectively. It was for sure the 9 days of car, work etc that did it. As the stress model shows, your body adapts and releases all the extra chemicals for you to cope. Then when all is said and done, you get to the exhaustion stage. This has happened many times to me in the last 18 months. 

 

Thank you for thoughts and prayers - so much appreciated. Got me through half a work day and light shopping.

[invalidusername]

No idea what is happening.

 

Slept another 8 hours without waking, and yet when I did, I am absolutely burnt out. This was 5 hours ago and all I have managed to do is eat cereal and write this post between laying. The wife is getting me water and helping me get to the bathroom.This is the fourth day and I am lost as to what is going on and what I should do. Last night I ate and drank well, and did nothing but rest for 8 hours but felt restless, then nausea and a headache came on. 

 

I know I overdid it last week, but I have really had enough. 

 

Any insight and advice would be gratefully heard.

[fishinghat]

How many days like this in a row IUN?

[invalidusername]

Started Saturday, so today is 4th day. There has been nothing inbetween. As soon as I finished the car, that is when it happened, so perfectly in keeping with the stress cycle, but I've not had exhaustion to this extent ever before.

 

I've also noticed that I am not hitting REM cycle when sleeping - not knowing what this has to do with it - if anything. But I just do not know why I not only feel tired, but exhausted when I wake. Makes no sense whatsoever.

 

It does ease off a bit in late afternoon/evening, but I am finding myself tired 2 or 3 hours earlier than normal and struggle to stay awake.

[fishinghat]

Not hitting REM makes me think it might be associated with the drop in Lexapro. How long ago was that?

[invalidusername]

I dropped to 10mg (from 15mg) 13 days ago....

 

Should also note that I have had a few nasty zaps since the weekend, but only come in 2-3's and not frequent. When I'e had them before they stay for a good few minutes - but that was with Citalopram.

[fishinghat]

Hmmm. dropped Lexapro, few brain zaps and now no REM sleep. Mild withdrawal? What do you think?

[invalidusername]

Honestly don't know. 

 

I've found a correlation online between chronic fatigue and lack of REM sleep, and the lack of REM sleep can cause fatigue. Bit of a viscous circle then...

 

I do not know Lexapro well enough to state whether this is a result of reduced dose or not. All I know is that I am scared of waknig up again like this. I can just have faith that it will soon subside.

[invalidusername]

OK - after much searching, it has a name.

 

Non-restorative sleep (or less-known non-refreshing sleep)

 

It is common among chronic fatigue, ME and fibromyalgia - and in stress burnout. For anyone looking into this with similar symptoms might find the following useful;

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC5791983/

 

Very little research covers the ailment, and sleep studies show very little of use, other than the lack of REM sleep. The patient sleeps perfectly well, wakes infrequently, but wakes up exhausted. The exact neurological link is not yet know, and among meditation and light exercise, the other aid to restoring correct sleep... is... wait for it... Z-drugs! 

 

Lets see how tomorrow goes...

[invalidusername]

OK - so I did have a better sleep and entered REM so am more awake, but....

 

My goodness. The zaps and dizziness I have woken to are just horrible. One thing after another. For goodness sake....

 

[EDIT] Here comes the brain fog. This is for sure a delayed withdrawal effect to the Lexapro drop. I'm guessing the extra energy/chemicals last week served to keep these at bay for a few days longer than it would have normally.

[gail]

My sweet Scrat,

Life loves you by throwing you curved balls here and there. Lol

I've been reading an article called THE HIDDEN GRACE OF PAIN AND SUFFERING. YOU MAY !OOK IT UP.

Prayers for you Scrat, love you, Gailage

[fishinghat]

Definitely Lexapro withdrawal with all those brain zaps. Got to be. It has a 2 to 3 day half-life so it takes a few days for the withdrawal symptoms to kick in.

 

They actually recommend Z-drugs for that? Crazy as Z-drugs block REM sleep same as benzos.

[gail]

Fisherman, Lexapro half life is more like 30 hours. So says Internet!

[invalidusername]

Thanks guys...

 

This is nasty. I've been out and done 4 hours work, and really struggled. It is all still there - did not abate when the Lexapro kicked in. Also had anxiety come on strong - even though I have taken my theanine. Guess the withdrawal is that bad.

 

I really don't know if I can do this over again. I've had enough.

 

Questions, so many questions going through my head. Do I go back to 15mg, do I carry on and get med-free, do I go back onto Citalopram????

 

I just want to be better. I think I'm going to have a little cry to myself.