894 replies to this topic

[invalidusername]

Had to Google that Gail - obviously still too early in the day!!

 

Hat - Looks like Pfizer were probably in with Reuben all the same. 

[invalidusername]

Hat  - one for you if you don't mind to satisfy my Googling. 

 

I have noticed the "shakes" coming in over the last few days. Started out 3 days ago, and they have got progressively longer in duration until last night they kept going and later felt like what people call "internal" shakes. 

 

Decided to try to get back to normal and wash the car whilst at my parents, and then got roped into washing theirs too. Now my whole body is going. Is this adrenaline going on by some means? It has not happened before to this extent - although it coincided with the depression lifting and the anxiety coming back...?? Anything I might do about it? Feel incredibly weak...

[fishinghat]

As best I can tell this seems to be a muscular dysfunction. It seems to occur more in those who have had seizures and always in the presence of anxiety. There does seem to be some correlation to abnormal sodium, potassium, calcium and/or magnesium. This is not a scientifically determined fact but rather a read between the lines interpretation of medical research and member experiences.

I would say that instead of your seizures coming back you are experiencing these shakes instead. A continuing sign that things are improving.

Do you feel weak in the knees or dizzy during these episodes?

[invalidusername]

It feels just like when you have avoided a car accident or similar, where people often say "I need to sit down for a minute" and someone pours them a single malt... but instead of lasting 5-10 minutes, it can be a lot longer. Food doesn't seem to impact it as I had my usual bowl of fibre/fruit cereal and felt shakes around 40 minutes after. Then the car washing seemed to exacerbate it more.

 

It is legs that start - noticeable walking down stairs, then it will be arms/hands. Last night I leaned on my left leg to pick up the trash, so put a little pressure/weight on it, and it went into what I call "sewing machine leg"!!

 

I do feel weak all over, but not dizzy, although my anxiety kicks in and tell me that I need to lay down for fear of passing out, although logically this cannot happen. It is just that I have other symptoms that coincide with low blood sugar... and I have had many tests in the last few weeks which show around 4.5-4.6 mmol/L even with little food.

[fishinghat]

That is definitely an adrenaline rush. During this period it is essential to sit down and relax until it passes. Continuing to work will further extend the event and contribute to the conditioning of a chronic adrenergic state.

[invalidusername]

Ah, ok. So nothing too sinister. 

 

Yesterday the worst of it occurred after I had spent 20 minutes in the grocery store - so because I had psych'd myself up for this, my brain overdid the adrenaline? And now it is doing it's own thing whenever I exert muscle energy due to the chronic adrenergic state?

 

This is really useful - thanks Hat. Need to retain all this for future so I can relieve you of some of your duties on occasion here in the forum.

[fishinghat]

You got it right IUN.

[invalidusername]

Hurrah! I'm getting there...

[invalidusername]

Now I have caught up with the other posts, I will do a quick update...

 

Yesterday was great - and I do mean great. Aside from a small wobble due to my adrenaline going awol, the rest of the day saw nothing whatsoever. I was calm, relaxed. Oh my goodness, what a wonderful day! I really needed that. It has shown me what is still there, what my life was like before my withdrawal. 

 

Today I woke feeling uncomfortable - as Gail puts it - nothing specific, just edgy and a bit down. But I am trying my best to stay focused and not let this part take hold too much. But is never easy once you have had a taste of the good stuff, to then go backwards. 

[gail]

Hi Scrat,

I have to say that it's never boring with you!

Can you describe chronic adrenergic state? With an example please?

So, it's not your hands that are shaking. Your whole body, does it show? Or appear worse than it is?

As I can see, you still have to prep yourself mentally to go to the grocery?

Finally, much lovage to you Scratage

[invalidusername]

Hi Sid,

 

Yes - there is something always going on here! The chronic adrenergic state is draining. I find myself tensing for no reason because of the flow of adrenaline - in fact - I just stopped then, and my legs and neck were really tensed! This only brings about more of the stuff. It is always there walking down a flight of stairs on the leg I transfer the weight to. So the leg shudders as I shift my weight onto it, just for the 1 second or so, but for some reason is usually only the left leg. It also happens when I release the clutch in the car - the left leg shakes. The limbs are visibly shaking, whilst the whole body part - torso - is internal shakes. I can't really explain how this feels, but I suppose it feels like I am laying on an invisible vibrating board. So while my torso isn't moving, the sensation is there - does that make sense? I can also get a little nauseous when it is worse - but again, this is normal with the overproduction of adrenaline.

 

The nasty part of it is that it tricks the mind into thinking anxiously. I have the physical symptoms going on, therefore there must be some danger of some sort. So even though there isn't any immediate danger, my thoughts start racing until it finds something to be anxious about - I am sure we all do that! 

 

This is what happened with the grocery store. Even though I knew that I would be fine, I had the shakes and the stomach churning, so my anxiety was already halfway there - my brain just had to fill in the missing pieces! Again - very annoying.

 

Lots and lots of lovage right back to you. My dear Siddage is forever in my prayers...

[gail]

Scrat, thank you for the description. Very well done.

And to see that you had a very good day besides this. It's better to have that than seizures, as Hat said, it's a good sign that you are progressing. Lovage by the ton!

[invalidusername]

Yes, and despite having a duvet day today, it is a better day today. I just feel that by staying indoors I am giving my anxiety chance to creep in, but it is a very miserable and cold day outside. No-one is venturing out...

[invalidusername]

I want to ask something of you all, although I understand there may not be a clear answer.

 

I am now at a point where I wake up and I simply cannot shake what I am feeling. It doesn't matter what I am thinking, the feelings still come. This occurs when I lay in bed and try to get the last 30 mins or extra hour of sleep. If I force myself to wake, then the violence of them gets less, but I still feel very uncomfortable.

 

It is very difficult to describe what I feel, but it is like I keep getting little injections of something into my brain that causes moments of extreme uncomfort that in turn make me feel that life is horrible due to depression/anxiety. But these moments come first to make me feel like this - I just don't know what they are. I try deep breathing, meditation, thinking about nice memories, holding the wife close - but nothing stops them. And it is the fact that I cannot stop them that makes me fear the day more.

 

Before, I would start with an anxious thought and this chain would set these feelings off, but they are there waiting for me when I wake.

 

Does anyone have any experience of this?? Or can proffer a way forward??

[fishinghat]

Not uncommon at all. I have experienced this. Just takes time to fade away.

 

Do you take your Lexapro in the Morning?

[invalidusername]

Good to know - is exhausting me this morning and really had enough of it as it makes me want to cancel work.

 

Yes. I take the Lexapro as soon as I wake - but remember this is on my nocturnal hours. I will sleep between 4-5am and take the Lexapro between 12-1, but I usually make it 1pm each time to keep it steady.

 

Would you suggest something else??

[fishinghat]

The half life is 27 to 33 hours. So if you take it at 1 pm then the next 1 pm you would have dropped about 50% (a little less). Yes, I would consider doing 10 mg at 1 pm and 5 mg at 1am if possible. Because of the longer half life it will take your blood levels about 6 days to gully adjust.

[invalidusername]

OK. I will implement this today in the evening as I have already taken my 15mg. Thanks 'Hat.

 

The byproduct being that I do not get the full surge of the 15mg, but by calculations, the difference will be minimal.

 

Feeling weak and restless at the same time - such a strange (and annoying) combination.

[gail]

Scrat,

You remember having read Morning anxiety, written a few years back.
I've had that and still have it but very minor. It started with Cymbalta withdrawal or while Cymbalta. And a bit before that, a bit.

During Cymbalta withdrawal, it was real bad, lasted a long time, many months. I was fearing going to bed. And now, can't wait to hit the sack.

At seven months, when withdrawal was over, I started Seroquel. Heaven on Earth for one or two months. I withdrew from that and that morning anxiety was full force.

Fast forward to today, it's so much better. Here and there but never full force.

I checked internet and found it was commun, withdrawal or not.

I never found an answer but tried so many natural products. It goes away by itself. I read that it was one of the last symptoms that was hard to get rid of.

I bring you no recomfort, sorry! Before Cymbalta Scratch, have you experienced this to a various degree? Much lovage

[invalidusername]

Thanks Gail....

 

Done my full days work and popped in to see a friend on way home. Only just got myself up the stairs to my flat thou! This adrenaline thing is really taking it out of me. But I knew I could do it!

 

Yes, I had something like this for the 12 months before the Cymbalta withdrawal, but it was always as a result of stress that had built up the days before, so I knew it was going to happen. There would be a problem with the car, and illness in the family - and then I knew it would come at me. Would last for 3-4 days and I would recuperate. This was it for some time. I would have 10-12 days of being "normal" then those 3-4 worse days. But I had so much stress and I was working on it... that is, until the Cymbalta came along. The magic pill for stress relief... YEA RIGHT!!

 

But what is happening now is like an ambush. I have had a good few days prior to all this, quiet weekend, but each morning it is still there. I can understand if I woke up and started thinking nasty things which then bought it on, but its not that. I wake and the feeling is right there. I just feel down and/or anxious without any input from me. 

 

It is nasty because I really struggle to pull myself out of this hole knowing that I do not have control. Like you say, you end up not wanting to go to bed knowing its all going to happen again in 8 hours time. I am very happy with the progress so far - really I am and acknowledge it, and I'm not looking for perfection (life isn't unless you are a game show host), but just some mornings to wake up and relax.. have a little snooze.. would be so nice, rather than reach for the laptop and just open anything to look at to distract myself. 

 

Does this sound similar to you... or Hat?

 

Is it a serotonin thing.. hence me trying the dose before sleep?

 

Thanks you guys. You mean so much...

[fishinghat]

"Is it a serotonin thing.. hence me trying the dose before sleep?"

Yep, you got it.

[invalidusername]

OK - so I have done my math, and with this split method I will increase dose by 1mg between 4am and 3pm, with the hours of 4pm - 8pm at 1mg lower. So will be sacrificing a elevated waking mood for a slightly less potency in the late afternoon.

 

=============================================

https://ibb.co/CQwWKy7

 

this allows a 30hr half life and 3 hours to hit peak level

y-axis (mg) and x-axis (time/hour) - forgot to label the axes!!

pink is split level, blue is current level

=============================================

 

So - the extra serotonin going on during the night will pay its dividends on waking? 

 

I can see why some people therefore might split a 20mg dose into 2 x 10mg at 12 hours apart so the levels do not spike.

[fishinghat]

"So - the extra serotonin going on during the night will pay its dividends on waking? "

Good job on the math. Will this help a lot. I don't know but it should help some.

[invalidusername]

Right you are Hatster.

 

I will start and we'll see what happens towards the end of the week...

[KathyInFL]

 I can understand if I woke up and started thinking nasty things which then bought it on, but its not that. I wake and the feeling is right there. I just feel down and/or anxious without any input from me. 

 

 

When you fix this issue, please let me know how you did so! 

 

I can't help, only to tell you that I have the same issue. xoxo

[invalidusername]

Awww - bless you Kathy. This is certainly a continuation of my Cymbalta withdrawal, coupled with the Citalopram withdrawal. My serotonin levels are doing what they can to even out, but still not quite right yet!

 

Don't discredit the things that are always lurking in the background that can cause all this imbalance thou...  we think they are not there, but there is always something...

[invalidusername]

A complete change today. I woke up expecting to feel what I did yesterday - and wasn't there, but was a horrible dark cloud of depression instead

 

Each thought terminates with the same response of "so what is the point of your living?". I'm thinking primarily about how much of a struggle these mornings are, will they end and how much more can be thrown at me. Don't like the fact that these moods keep changing. Just don't want to get out of bed. Even if I do and feel a little better, it is telling me that it will only come back later, or for sure tomorrow when I wake. Sorry for being a miserable one today!

 

I have been reading posts from Wagtal, FN, Gail and others from 2014 who discuss similar things. Its all I can do at the moment.

[invalidusername]

Update - 3 hours after Lexapro and started work, I could feel it kick in and felt a bit better. Glad to see they are doing something... Still very fragile, but important that I update so others can see I don't just come here to moan

[invalidusername]

Hat - a quick question for you while it is quiet.. regarding adrenergic states.

 

I have had a read through some posts, but most refer to the associated anxiety that comes with it. As you know, I have these shakes, fatigue, odd stomach sensation and internal tremors. I'm obviously looking for something that will aid this as it has been a good 10 days, and I almost had to throw the towel in early from work today, but I stuck it out.

 

I would have thought my magnesium citrate would have helped - but clearly I'm wrong. Other than the 15mg Lexapro, I take nothing. I don't want to go down the meds route if at all possible for fear of yet more side effects, so was wondering if there is a supplement which would be best suited to my symptoms??

[fishinghat]

I don't know about a supplement that is anti-adrenaline specifically. Most drs use atenolol which is a betablocker. It relieves most of the physical symptoms or they will use clonidine which fools the brain into thinking there is too much adrenaline in the blood BUT I was just thinking. I believe I know of a natural beta blocker. Will check it out and let you know.