2348 replies to this topic

[fishinghat]

Well, LDN, I spent some time on this one and am concerned on several levels. The information is given below but I would like to know how long you have been on this medication?

1 x 25 mg Chlorpromazine

Summary


Chlorpromazine is a strong serotonin antagonist. A serotonin antagonist, or serotonin receptor antagonist, is a drug used to inhibit the action at serotonin (5-HT) receptors. Wiki
A strong blocker of serotonin receptor 5 HT2.

Use of Chlorpromazine decreased hyperactivity syndrome in rats for the first 4 days of use then caused an increase in hyperactivity syndrome.


Depressed functional serotonin or depleting serotonin levels in rat brains.


Levels of 5-HT, but not those of dihydroxyphenyl-alanine (DOPA), dopamine or norepinephrine, were significantly decreased.


Treatment with chlorpromazine alone for 14 days decreased the density of 5-HT2 receptor binding sites in rat cortex.


Genetic make up determines the dependent behavioral and cerebral effects by chlorpromazine.


Increases ATP transport through membranes. Note - ATP is a major carrier for electron energy for most parts of our bodies metabolism.


Chlorpromazine inhibits ATP-sensitive K+ channels (KATP) in HIT-T15 beta-cells. (Beta Cells produce insulin. This demonstrates the effect of Chlorpromazine on K+ channels and ATP concentration/activity. K+ channels are found throughout many cellular membranes in the human body. K+ channels, potassium channels allow certain compounds into/out of cells.


Chlorpromazine can cause Cholestasis. Cholestasis is a condition caused by rapidly developing (acute) or long-term (chronic) interruption in the excretion of bile (a digestive fluid that helps the body process fat).


Both doses of chlorpromazine caused significant and parallel decreases (23 to 31%) in the ATP and ADP hydrolysis. (ATP hydrolysis is the breakdown process by which chemical energy that has been stored in the ATP is released , for example in muscles, by producing work in the form of mechanical energy. ) (ADP can be further hydrolyzed to give off more energy which is the final link between the energy derived from food or sunlight and useful work such as muscle contraction,)


Chlorpromazine inhibits HERG potassium channels. This ion channel (sometimes simply denoted as 'hERG') is best known for its contribution to the electrical activity of the heart: the hERG channel mediates the repolarizing IKr current in the cardiac action potential, which helps coordinate the heart's beating. When this channel's ability to conduct electrical current across the cell membrane is inhibited it can result in a potentially fatal disorder called long QT syndrome.


Hepatotoxicity (liver toxicity) for Chlorpromazine and consisted of nflammation/hepatitis, cholestasis, and liver proliferation in all five donors, as well as fibrosis and steatosis, which were observed in four of five donors. Necrosis was present in three of five donors, and an indicative symptom of cirrhosis was observed after long-term 14-day repeat treatment, also in three of five donors.


Granular changes are found in the lens and cornea of patients who had received high dosages of chlorpromazine for a prolonged period of time. These changes were noted in 49 of 131 patients, some of whom had received chlorpromazine for as long as nine years.


Numerous annoying and sometimes harmful side reactions involving many of the body systems have been reported on relative shortterm therapy. Greiner and Berry described a metallic discoloration of the skin of the exposed areas of the face, neck and hands in 70 patients. In 12 of the most severely affected individuals they also noticed grossly visible granular deposits in the posterior cornea and the anterior lens.


Research has showed an increase in glutamate level in each brain region investigated following long‐term administration, but only in the cerebral cortex after a single dose. GABA levels showed an increase in the brainstem only in acute experiments. Glutamine synthetase activity was increased in all three regions after a single dose and only in cerebral cortex after long‐term administration. Glutaminase activity showed a decrease in cerebral cortex only after long‐term administration of the drug. These results suggest the possible occurrence of a state of increased excitability in the brain as a result of long‐term (21 days) administration of chlorpromazine, thus contributing to the known complication of seizures.


Thirty patients on long‐term treatment with chlorpromazine in moderate doses showed deposits in the lens, and the majority of the patients also showed deposits in the cornea. These deposits did not increase in the 13 patients who continued on chlorpromazine during an observation period of 31/2 years. Thus, when chlorpromazine is used in moderate doses, the deposits in the eyes seem to increase only up to a certain extent. Twelve patients who were switched over to thioridazine showed no change in the deposition in the lens and cornea after the observation period, indicating that the deposits are irreversible.



Research


https://www.ncbi.nlm...ubmed/10221364\
Reports of cases treated with the 5-HT2 blockers cyproheptadine and chlorpromazine were identified and analysed. There is some evidence suggesting the efficacy of chlorpromazine and cyproheptadine in the treatment of serotonin syndrome.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...v/pubmed/264797
The hyperactivity syndrome produced in rats by administration of tranylcypromine (20 mg/kg i.p.) followed 30 min later by L-tryptophan (50 mg/kg i.p.) is generally considered to be due to increased 5-hydroxytryptamine (5-HT) functional activity. It is inhibited by chlorpromazine (30 mg/kg i.p.) injected 60 min before the tranylcypromine. However, chlorpromazine injection for 4 days either at a dose of 30 mg/kg once daily or 5 mg/kg twice daily results in an enhanced hyperactivity response to tranylcypromine and L-tryptophan administration 24 h after the final dose of chlorpromazine.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...v/pubmed/156373
Effects of brain serotonin alterations on hypothermia produced by chlorpromazine in rats.
Abstract
Depressing functional serotonin or depleting serotonin levels in rat brains with either p-chlorophenylalanine, 5,6-dihydroxytryptamine or raphe lesions greatly enhanced hypothermia induced by chloropromazine (CPZ). Depressing the firing of raphe units or decreasing serotonin turnover in the brain with either a serotonin precursor (tryptophan) or the inhibitors of serotonin re-uptake (Lilly 1 10140 and chlorimipramine) also greatly enhanced the CPZ-induced hypothermia. The data indicate that serotonergic activity in the brain plays a role in the elaboration or modulation of CPZ hypothermia.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.../pubmed/9195199
Gen Pharmacol. 1997 Jul;29(1):91-6.
Serotonin depletion after prolonged chlorpromazine treatment in a simpler model system.
Abstract
1. Prolonged exposure of the pond snail Lymnaea stagnalis to micromolar concentrations of chlorpromazine (CPZ) results in marked changes in the serotonin (5-HT) content of the central nervous system. 2. High-performance liquid chromatography with electrochemical detection indicates that levels of 5-HT, but not those of dihydroxyphenyl-alanine (DOPA), dopamine or norepinephrine, were significantly decreased (e.g., to less than 40% of normal after 30 days of exposure to 1 microM CPZ in the bathing water). 3. Glyoxylate-induced fluorescence was depressed to undetectable levels in central, serotonergic neurons. 4. Performance of 5-HT-dependent motor behaviors was impaired. 5. The present results, in accord with earlier studies on the effects of chronic exposure to haloperidol, suggest that previously overlooked mechanisms of monoamine downregulation may contribute to long-term effects of antipsychotic drugs.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.../pubmed/6694512
Life Sci. 1984 Jan 2;34(1):87-92.
Reduction of serotonin-2 receptors in rat cerebral cortex after subchronic administration of imipramine, chlorpromazine, and the combination thereof.
Abstract
Combined administration of antidepressant and neuroleptic drugs has been reported to have a synergistic effect in the treatment of psychotic depression. The effects of subchronic administration of imipramine, chlorpromazine, or the combination, on serotonin 2 (5-HT2) receptors labeled by 3H-spiroperidol in rat cerebral cortex were studied to determine whether this synergism might be related to an effect on these receptors, which have been linked to the therapeutic action of antidepressants. Treatment with imipramine or chlorpromazine alone for 14 days decreased the density of 5-HT2 receptor binding sites in rat cortex; the combination of the two drugs produced a greater reduction in 5-HT2 binding sites than imipramine or chlorpromazine alone. Thus, the clinical synergism of this combination may be related, in part to the more extensive decrease in 5-HT2 binding sites it produces. The ability of chlorpromazine alone to decrease 5-HT2 binding sites might be relevant to reports that it has an independent antidepressant action.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.../pubmed/1745440
Neurotoxicology. 1991 Fall;12(3):571-81.
Neurotoxicity of chlorpromazine and modulation by amantadine as a function of mouse strain.
Abstract
The separate and combined effects of successive administration of amantadine, 100 mg/kg, i.p., and chlorpromazine, 0.2 mg/kg, i.p., on motor activity and whole brain levels of certain biogenic amines and major metabolites were studied in four strains of mice. These were the albino ICR, the inbred BALB/C, C57BL/6 and the hybrid CDF-I mice. Amantadine produced a strain-dependent behavioral stimulation subsequent the fourth dose. This was apparent in ICR and C57BL/6 mouse strains and was followed by a behavioral depression phase occurring during the night in C57BL/6 mice which was antagonized by chlorpromazine. Administration of chlorpromazine alone affected only CDF-1 mouse mobility. Chlorpromazine reduced only ICR mouse brain dopamine without concomitant changes in major acid metabolites. Repeated administration of amantadine prior to chlorpromazine negated this effect. Chlorpromazine enhancement of BALB/C brain serotonin and 5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid was antagonised by pretreatment with amantadine. This antagonism was also evident in BALB/C mouse brain dihydroxyphenylacetic acid. The results suggest genotypic-dependent behavioral and cerebral effects by the drugs studied. The antagonism between amantadine and chlorpromazine on brain amines may explain the therapeutic efficacy of amantadine in modulating chlorpromazine-induced extrapyramidal disorders.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.../pubmed/4087179
J Pharm Sci. 1985 Nov;74(11):1188-91.
Influence of chlorpromazine on the accumulation of 5-hydroxytryptamine by interaction with ATP.
Abstract
5-Hydroxytryptamine accumulates at pH 6.0 when ATP is present on one side of an artificial lipoidal barrier. In the presence of chlorpromazine, the diffusion of ATP through the barrier and a decrease in the accumulation of serotonin can be noted. The diffusion rate constants of ATP and serotonin are related to the concentration of chlorpromazine.
Note - ATP is a major carrier for electron energy for most parts of our bodies metabolism.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.../pubmed/1680711
Eur J Pharmacol. 1991 May 30;198(1):101-4.
Chlorpromazine and related phenothiazines inhibit the ATP-sensitive K+ channel.
Abstract
Whole-cell, current clamp, single channel recordings and 86Rb+ flux techniques were used to show that phenothiazines inhibit ATP-sensitive K+ channels (KATP) in HIT-T15 beta-cells. Chlorpromazine inhibition was observed when KATP channels were activated by ATP depletion or by direct treatment with a classical KATP channel opener, diazoxide. The order of potency of the phenothiazines tested was chlorpromazine greater than triflupromazine greater than fluphenazine greater than trifluopromazine with IC50 values of 1, 4, 6 and 20 microM, respectively. The inhibition was reversible.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/23175273
Hepatology. 2013 Apr;57(4):1518-29. doi: 10.1002/hep.26160. Epub 2013 Mar 4.
Oxidative stress plays a major role in chlorpromazine-induced cholestasis in human HepaRG cells.
Cholestasis is a condition caused by rapidly developing (acute) or long-term (chronic) interruption in the excretion of bile (a digestive fluid that helps the body process fat).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.../pubmed/2101062
Braz J Med Biol Res. 1990;23(10):969-73.
Effects of chronic treatment with high doses of chlorpromazine on ATP and ADP hydrolysis by synaptosomal fractions from the rat caudate nucleus.
Abstract
Several studies have indicated that chlorpromazine and its metabolites affect ATP hydrolysis by brain and liver plasma membranes in vitro. The present report examines whether chronic treatment (12 days) with high doses of chlorpromazine (10 and 40 mg/kg) could affect ATP and ADP hydrolysis by synaptosomal fractions from the rat caudate nucleus. Both doses of chlorpromazine caused significant and parallel decreases (23 to 31%) in the ATP and ADP hydrolysis. The parallelism between the effects of chlorpromazine on ATP and ADP hydrolysis suggests the participation of a single enzyme (ATP diphosphohydrolase) in nucleotide hydrolysis.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC1573882/
The antipsychotic drug chlorpromazine inhibits HERG potassium channels.

Note - This ion channel (sometimes simply denoted as 'hERG') is best known for its contribution to the electrical activity of the heart: the hERG channel mediates the repolarizing IKr current in the cardiac action potential, which helps coordinate the heart's beating.
When this channel's ability to conduct electrical current across the cell membrane is inhibited or compromised, either by application of drugs or by rare mutations in some families, it can result in a potentially fatal disorder called long QT syndrome. Conversely, genetic mutations that increase the current through these channels can lead to the related inherited heart rhythm disorder Short QT syndrome. A number of clinically successful drugs in the market have had the tendency to inhibit hERG, lengthening the QT and potentially leading to a fatal irregularity of the heartbeat (a ventricular tachyarrhythmia called torsades de pointes). This has made hERG inhibition an important antitarget that must be avoided during drug development.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/23913027
Drug Metab Dispos. 2013 Oct;41(10):1835-42. doi: 10.1124/dmd.113.052415. Epub 2013 Aug 2.
Transcriptomic hepatotoxicity signature of chlorpromazine after short- and long-term exposure in primary human sandwich cultures.
Abstract
Drug-induced liver injury is the most frequent reason for market withdrawal of approved drugs, and is difficult to predict in animal models. Here, we analyzed transcriptomic data derived from short- and long-term cultured primary human hepatocytes (PHH) exposed to the well known human hepatotoxin chlorpromazine (CPZ). Samples were collected from five PHH cultures after short-term (1 and 3 days) and long-term (14 days) repeat daily treatment with 0.1 or 0.2 µM CPZ, corresponding to C(max). Two PHH cultures were additionally treated with 1 µM CPZ, and the three others with 0.02 µM CPZ. Differences in the total number of gene changes were seen between donors and throughout treatment. Specific transcriptomic hepatotoxicity signatures were created for CPZ and consisted of inflammation/hepatitis, cholestasis, and liver proliferation in all five donors, as well as fibrosis and steatosis, which were observed in four of five donors. Necrosis was present in three of five donors, and an indicative signature of cirrhosis was observed after long-term 14-day repeat treatment, also in three of five donors. The inter-donor variability in the inflammatory response to CPZ treatment was associated with variability in the strength of the response of the transcriptomic hepatotoxicity signatures, suggesting that features of inflammation could be related to the idiosyncratic hepatotoxic effects of CPZ in humans.

https://jamanetwork....abstract/627974
Ocular Changes Associated With Long-Term Chlorpromazine Therapy
Abstract
This paper reports characteristic granular changes found in the lens and cornea of patients who had received high dosages of chlorpromazine for a prolonged period of time. These changes were noted in 49 of 131 patients, some of whom had received chlorpromazine for as long as nine years.
Numerous annoying and sometimes harmful side reactions involving many of the body systems have been reported on relative shortterm therapy.1-4 Long-term effects have been reported only recently.5,6 Greiner and Berry described a violaceous, metallic discoloration of the skin of the exposed areas of the face, neck and hands in 70 patients.7 In 12 of the most severely affected individuals they also noticed grossly visible granular deposits in the posterior cornea and the anterior lens

 

https://onlinelibrar....1987.tb03389.x
Acute and Long‐Term Effects of Chlorpromazine on Glutamine Synthetase and Glutaminase in Rat Brain
Abstract
Abstract: The effect of administration of chlorpromazine on the activity of glutamine synthetase and glutaminase and the content of glutamate and γ‐aminobutyric acid (GABA) in different regions of rat brain was studied in an investigation of the possible role of these amino acids in the lowering of the seizure threshold following prolonged administration of chlorpromazine. Chlorpromazine was administered at a dose of 20 mg/kg of body weight s.c. For the acute study, the animals were killed 20 min after a single injection. For the long‐term study, the animals were treated every day with the same dose for 21 days and were killed 20 min after the last injection. The results showed an increase in glutamate level in each brain region investigated following long‐term administration, but only in the cerebral cortex after a single dose. GABA levels showed an increase in the brainstem only in acute experiments. Glutamine synthetase activity was increased in all three regions after a single dose and only in cerebral cortex after long‐term administration. Glutaminase activity showed a decrease in cerebral cortex only after long‐term administration of the drug. These results suggest the possible occurrence of a state of increased excitability in the brain as a result of long‐term administration of chlorpromazine, thus contributing to the known complication of seizures.

https://onlinelibrar....1976.tb00053.x
DEPOSITS IN THE LENS AND CORNEA OF THE EYE DURING LONG‐TERM CHLORPROMAZINE MEDICATION
Abstract
Thirty patients on long‐term treatment with chlorpromazine in moderate doses showed deposits in the lens, and the majority of the patients also showed deposits in the cornea.
These deposits did not increase in the 13 patients who continued on chlorpromazine during an observation period of 31/2 years. Thus, when chlorpromazine is used in moderate doses, the deposits in the eyes seem to increase only up to a certain extent.
Twelve patients who were switched over to thioridazine showed no change in the deposition in the lens and cornea after the observation period, indicating that the deposits are irreversible.
After the observation period visual acuity had deteriorated somewhat in the material as a whole, presumably because of advancing age, not because of the deposits.
The risk of using chlorpromazine in moderate dosage is slight.


Side effects


Common side effects include movement problems, sleepiness, dry mouth, low blood pressure upon standing, and increased weight. Serious side effects may include the potentially permanent movement disorder tardive dyskinesia, neuroleptic malignant syndrome, and low white blood cell levels. Chlorpromazine is in the typical antipsychotic class. Its mechanism of action is not entirely clear but believed to be related to its ability as a dopamine antagonist. It also has anti-serotonergic and antihistaminergic properties. Wiki

https://www.ehealthm...e/side-effects/

Most common side effects over time : (Subjective reports from patients)
< 1 month:
⦁ Bradycardia (abnormally slow heart action)
⦁ Sopor (sleep)
⦁ Hepatitis fulminant (life-threatening condition defined by significantly impaired liver function)
⦁ Altered state of consciousness (altered state of mind)
⦁ Anxiety
⦁ Atonic seizures (minor type of seizure)
⦁ Blood creatine increased
⦁ Chronic kidney disease
⦁ Drug-induced liver injury (diseases of the liver that are caused by physician-prescribed medications)

1 - 6 months:
⦁ Abdominal pain
⦁ Aggression
⦁ Alanine aminotransferase increased
⦁ Anger
⦁ Cerebral infarction (less blood supply to brain resulting tissue damage)
⦁ Coma (state of unconsciousness lasting more than six hours)
⦁ Gastrointestinal haemorrhage (bleeding gastrointestinal tract)
⦁ Hyperglycaemia (high blood sugar)
1.29% reported anxiety as a side effect.

Drug Insert information

https://dailymed.nlm...dience=consumer


Chlorpromazine has strong antiadrenergic and weaker peripheral anticholinergic activity; ganglionic blocking action is relatively slight. It also possesses slight antihistaminic and antiserotonin activity. (research strongly disagrees).


For the short-term treatment of hyperactive children.


May Cause;


Tardive Dyskinesia
Given the likelihood that some patients exposed chronically to antipsychotics will develop tardive dyskinesia, it is advised that all patients in whom chronic use is contemplated be given, if possible, full information about this risk.

Neuroleptic Malignant Syndrome (NMS)
A potentially fatal symptom complex sometimes referred to as Neuroleptic Malignant Syndrome (NMS) has been reported in association with antipsychotic drugs. Clinical manifestations of NMS are hyperpyrexia, muscle rigidity, altered mental status and evidence of autonomic instability (irregular pulse or blood pressure, tachycardia, diaphoresis, and cardiac dysrhythmias).

Leukopenia, Neutropenia and Agranulocytosis
In clinical trial and postmarketing experience, events of leukopenia/neutropenia and agranulocytosis have been reported related to antipsychotic agents. (low white blood cell count)

Antipsychotic drugs elevate prolactin levels; the elevation persists during chronic administration. Tissue culture experiments indicate that approximately 1/3 of human breast cancers are prolactin-dependent
Chlorpromazine diminishes the effect of oral anticoagulants.
Concomitant administration with propranolol results in increased plasma levels of both drugs.

Long-Term Therapy
To lessen the likelihood of adverse reactions related to cumulative drug effect, patients with a history of long-term therapy with chlorpromazine and/or other antipsychotics should be evaluated periodically to decide whether the maintenance dosage could be lowered or drug therapy discontinued.

Abrupt Withdrawal
Like other phenothiazines, chlorpromazine is not known to cause psychic dependence and does not produce tolerance or addiction. There may be, however, following abrupt withdrawal of high-dose therapy, some symptoms resembling those of physical dependence such as gastritis, nausea and vomiting, dizziness and tremulousness. These symptoms can usually be avoided or reduced by gradual reduction of the dosage or by continuing concomitant anti-parkinsonism agents for several weeks after chlorpromazine is withdrawn.

Watch for jaundice, low white blood cell count, EKG Changes (Q and T wave distortions) (Note: Sudden death, apparently due to cardiac arrest, has been reported.), Motor Restlessness, Pseudo-parkinsonism,

Special Considerations In Long-Term Therapy
Skin pigmentation and ocular changes have occurred in some patients taking substantial doses of chlorpromazine for prolonged periods.

Ocular Changes
Ocular changes have occurred more frequently than skin pigmentation and have been observed both in pigmented and nonpigmented patients receiving chlorpromazine usually for 2 years or more in dosages of 300 mg daily and higher. Eye changes are characterized by deposition of fine particulate matter in the lens and cornea.

Psychotic Disorders
Increase dosage gradually until symptoms are controlled. Maximum improvement may not be seen for weeks or even months. Continue optimum dosage for 2 weeks; then gradually reduce dosage to the lowest effective maintenance level.

[fishinghat]

I see you started on July 5, 2018. That is a long time and concerns me with the potential appearance of side effects. There is an increased risk of anxiety/hyperactivity the longer you are on it.

 

What current symptoms are bothering you the most lately?

[invalidusername]

Well brother...

 

You have some reading to get through there!! And before I forget, may I wish you, your lovely family and your beloved cat a very Merry Christmas! Does your furry companion have any presents to open in the morning?

 

Have to say - am very jealous that you can be out in the lovely clean air and meditating. Sounds absolutely wonderful. I remember doing just that on the edge of Tintagel Castle overlooking the sea. I got woken up by one of the workers when they were closing as I have fallen asleep! Odd that the sheep have disappeared - possibly moved fields off to graze elsewhere. Maybe they weren't aware of your pending arrival?

 

Good that you are getting plenty of exercise with the cat as well, and how difficult it must be for the poor thing not being permitted in the bedroom while you are sleeping. Cats love to be part of the sleeping schedule. They often sleep when you sleep for the warmth and company of course. Enjoy every moment man. It made you so happy last time you were there and it will do the same again.

 

Felt a little flat again today - bit more than yesterday. It is all now hitting that anticlimax of Christmas. All the running and rushing about and all for one day. Fine if you have big family gatherings and like that sort of thing, or if you are a kid... but I just don't do it. But I made myself go out for a couple of hours and did a bit of work on the car at my parents. Got me outside and some vitamin D but been inside for the rest of the day just pottering and not really in the mood for anything. I think it is because I know there are days of no work coming up and I loose a lot of enthusiasm when I am not working as I do not see my time as quite so precious. Plus it gives me more time with my thoughts which needs to be avoided - but a good time for practise! 

 

The wife and I are going to visit the rest of the family after their meal for a few minutes for a drink and to exchange gifts. I am not sure that it will be that comfortable, but it is just something that we want to get done. I know the wife will be very uneasy about the whole thing. She hasn't seen my sister and brother-in-law since last Christmas, so I will do all I can to help her get through it in the best way possible.

 

LOL - my cat does the fall sideways thing too. They don't even crouch and then roll... they just flop from vertical to horizontal!! It is purely a request for affection! Never deny them this - they will remember that you did not obey!!

 

So glad to hear that you have had a lapse on the anxiety front. Anything to do with the chance of scenery perhaps? Your head will have had so much other detail to consider that it won't be remembering what it was being anxious for maybe? But the "what the hell" attitude is a good a start as any. I have often felt that. The same outside as inside, so just get on with it. Unfortunately doesn't work so well with depression though. Strange there are a lot of people who are anxious about driving at night and even more who are anxious about motorways - even small stretches of them. I have a friend who does - she calls it a phobia, but there was nothing that triggered it - she would just panic if she had to drive down one. I have offered help...

 

Well, I hope you have a lovely day tomorrow whatever it is you all get up to - and will look forward to hearing the details. Don't forget some turkey for the cat

 

Much love brother

 

God Bless

[LDN]

Hi fishinghat. Firstly a massive thank you for doing all that! 

 

My anxiety has reduced since I went back on the C8 MCT oil, so there might be something in my doctors theory it is lactic acid to compensate for the energy I lost when I stopped taking C8 MCT. 

 

But I still have knots/butterflies in my stomach and feel unable to totally relax. Feel some tingling in my neck and upper back. On Sunday night my sympathetic nervous system went into overdrive but it hasn't since then. 

 

The Chlorpromazine definitely makes me physically weaker for sure, I tried coming of it last winter and I immediately had a upturn in physical energy. In particular I notice it makes my muscles weaker. I had to go back on it because I was feeling anxious of it. I would like to stop it ideally. So would my p doc as well. I could do with the extra energy to be honest, but obviously I want to be as stable as possible at the moment and last winter I didn't feel ready to come off it. 

 

It is definitely the 1st of my drugs I want to come off. 

 

If I did start to come off, would you have any suggestions on how? Time frames? It is a pill so you can break it in half. 

 

Thank you so much again! 

 

I hope you and your wife have a wonderful day tomorrow!! 

 

Love and God Bless!

[LDN]

Hey man! Anxiety came back today, but not full on overdrive just niggling away and unsettling. As you will see above, since I have been back on the C8 MCT oil it has improved so my doctors theory about the lactic acid may be right. Would add in a few more supplements which give energy, but since it is Christmas tomorrow I want to be as stale as possible. Will have to get Christmas out of the way and then try and bring a few of the ones I stopped back in. I have only been back on the C8 MCT since Saturday and my doctor said it would take a week to feel the effects. So still some way to go. Obviously such a bad time of the year to have to be using myself as a lab rat and trying things but it is what it is. Basically it is when I am most restful and relaxed that I get the worst anxiety and when I am doing the most exerting stuff - like the drive - the anxiety is a bit better. So a reverse of usual anxiety. So it is a biological situation, and it seems when my brain is resting it is most vulnerable. Normally I have no problem with resting time. But as I said yesterday it does have a positive in that if no such thing exists as a 'safe space' then suddenly you have no fear of the unknown, since the really known and safe places aren't comfortable. I thought to myself I am right now probably the best I have been with the fear of externals and social anxiety since I got ill. All my focus is on the biology and internal goings on and so everything outside me seems irrelevant. In fact I actually enjoy the tough stuff, like the drive, more than my safe time! It has turned my whole last 8 years on it's head!!! So in fact I have learnt a huge amount from these 2 weeks. In really rough patches you can often learn the most important lessons. I feel this is a really big example of that. Think how both of the 2 big exposures I did in the last 2 weeks went well - the party in the pub and the drive - while all the usual safe time has become very uncomfortable. That has the effect of putting really good associations on the exposures!! Almost a decade of thought patterns and state of mind is being changed by this anxiety episode. Obviously I was doing really well in this regard already but I feel this whole episode is giving me so much. Also it gives me more chance to practice my coping mechanisms for anxiety. So it is a state of flux and confusing but there is also a sense of excitement. Does that make any sense at all???? LOL!!!!! 2 weeks of anxiety does make you feel like you are going slightly mad LOL!!!! So sorry if this is utterly incomprehensible! 

 

I had a real nice moment today. My garden meditation has now become FIELD MEDITATION!! LOL!! Just like yesterday I walked to the top of the field and just stood completely still as I took in the 180 degree view. In London you can never very far because there is buildings everywhere apart on the river, so it is amazing just to stare into the distance - seeing literally miles of land and hills in front of you. I was still for about 20/30 minutes, I wasn't counting. I was feeling anxious but just let it be and was present with it. It was dusk and seeing the skeleton bare trees in the far horizon in the mist was incredible. I had one of those moments when I felt I was tripping or in a dream. Everything felt like I could clearly see this earth was just structure for my spiritual growth. It all felt so clear in those few minutes. Like I was in a simulation. Like in the matrix. I really felt this is beautiful and I am curious and just going to enjoy this learning experience. I felt a very tangible feeling of suffered and just flow with everything. I was so consumed in the mindfulness I lost all sense of 'my body'. I was sort of one with it all. Just like I was a water molecule but everything was part of the same stream. One of those moments that you live for. Time stands still. You are out of time and space - just present. I read so much of these states, so it is always so special to have a little taste for myself. All day I was been filled by that moment. When I talk of soul nourishment, that is sort of what I am talking about. My soul feels so full after that. There is so much emphasis on bodily well being of course, but why not soul well being. 

 

Then when I was standing there still it started to rain and dusk was falling. I love rain so much. So it was amazing. Just feeling the rain hit my face and just being in the wild and one with nature. Nature is the best drug (that and cats!!). Just being there in the rain and man it was so special. I am feeling so moved thinking about it. Just being alone in nature is something special. I feel more primal, away from modernity and more how I was made to be.  Not separated from nature but one with it! As I said it gives your soul something. 

 

I was thinking of you in the field man! Imaging you were next to me right then!! I hope some of this energy can float down to you!

 

Going over that has been quite emotional, just having to take it in here!! 

 

So feeling a bit lost (in a good way) after reliving that, but to move on had some lovely moments with the cat today. I was having my back massage by my dad and she just came and lay on my legs and behind and then she wouldn't budge LOL! I was stuck there! Also I had just come out of my sauna and she came straight up to me and we had to have an another session!! I was pretty cold but she wanted some attention!! She is such a beautiful cat! 

 

Really hope everything goes well tomorrow! Really have been moved and inspired by how well you handled yourself these last few weeks. So thank you for that inspiration brother!! I really hope your wife is ok as well and I admire her bravery, it is more than I did for many years what she is attempting!! 

 

I prayed for you last night in the chapel and will do so again tonight! 

 

Sorry for such a rambling post!! It really hit me hard (in a good way) going over my moments in the field and I am still feeling a bit awe struck. 

 

The cat does have some presents yes LOL!! 

 

That sounds amazing your experience at Tintagel Castle overlooking the sea!! Just seen some pictures WOW!! 

 

A big happy Christmas to you and your wife my brother! 

 

I will be thinking of you tomorrow! 

 

I love you so much brother! 

 

God Bless!

[gail]

Sweet London, another mystic experience. I'm so jealous of you. They seem to come often lately.

It nourrishes the soul for many days to come. Nothing like nature to bring them on. All is natural,. Not forced, a gift from God. Gratitude is in order. Love you!

[fishinghat]

"I tried coming of it last winter and I immediately had a upturn in physical energy. I had to go back on it because I was feeling anxious of it. I would like to stop it ideally."

Withdrawal. You are right, now is not the time for that. At 2 years on this stuff your risk of dev eloping Tardive dyskinesia increases. Also, there is an indication that there is an increase in anxiety when you have been on it awhile. It significantly reduces serotonin so I would think that would be an issue during Cymbalta withdrawal. May I ask why you went on it in the first place?

[invalidusername]

Hey brother... and again a very Merry Christmas to you and family!

 

I will dive straight in and tell you that the day hasn't been too bad at all. Frantic moment when I woke as I slept with earplugs because my neighbours were sure to make noise in the morning and what do you know... the same as you.. blocked ear!! I freaked out and start stabbing at it like crazy. 30 seconds later it unblocked, but a nasty 30 seconds!! I rested until mid afternoon when we had to visit the family. The mrs took 10mg of valium and I took dramanine as a preventative, but was feeling fine.

 

I couldn't believe it... the mrs lasted 90 minutes with the family! A huge achievement for her. She was very exhausted towards the end, but managed it nonetheless. She conversed and was very polite. As soon as there was silence, she switched to playing Klondike!! This helped her thoughts from going awol. But if this is what she needed to do, then that was fine. She is still a little uneasy, but so much better than she could be. We are going to try to visit my weekend friend tomorrow with her, but I am not putting any pressure on her for that, and it won't be for so long as she doesn't know them as well as me. We shall see....

 

Overall, I am feeling a little bit flat still because of the whole impact of the holiday, and the quiet that is the eye of the storm on Christmas Day. Bit lonely and emotionless, but looking back on last year - a massive improvement from severe anxiety and seizures!

 

Hope you managed to remain stable for the day man. I think the anxiety will be a case of waves as it goes. As you know-rarely do these things just go out of the blue - which is a pain given that they come on out of the blue without warning most of the time!! Not exactly fair in my opinion!! I think it wise to remain as is, regardless of symptoms, over Christmas. I can't believe that I agreed to start tapering the Citalopram after Christmas, and yet we are nearly there. I am quite scared to be honest mate!! I said a clear month and I would be happy, and here we are now 2 months more or less clear! What have I done man!! I am scared!!!

 

The way you describe your anxiety is just like what I have had since I started on the Clare Weekes' method. It is the thoughts that do this to you, not the action. It is when you get to the point that you can control the thoughts to an extent that when you are in the situation itself, you can focus on the situation itself and not let the thoughts take centre stage. So, that is why it is like that I think. When you are not doing these things, and realising that you are fine when you are doing them, you can worry about it because you are not doing them, so you are not proving anything to yourself at the time. Does that make sense? This is all stuff that I have learnt and it has helped me a great deal. But throw in the biological stuff as well, and that doesn't help. But you seem to be a bit further forward with dealing with that than me.

 

Sounds like you had quite a profound experience - sound Buddhist from origin when you talk about the water molecule. That moment when you realise we are all part of the same thing. I had a similar though - sadly not the experience - but looking at the Borneo forests of Thailand where they harvest the Kratom. And I'm thinking, there are trees from there that are now living in me. I have part of this amazing landscape living in me... and look how amazing these areas are....

 

https://img.thecultu...-design-1-1.jpg

 

They are obviously maintained and cultivated to be sustained, but I will take these images in whenever I have a dose and mindfully realise the essence of what is being taken in. 

 

I like what you say about time standing still. Would be nice to know more about this in detail if there is any. These are the most amazing moments when you simply forget time - is simply does not matter - and it is like you are remembering the Summerland where of course there is no time. It makes complete sense when you are in these moments, and you think of all the other people who think how stupid it is to comprehend a life where there is no time. It makes perfect sense!! Our bodies are biological machines, and our souls are something completely different. What I would have given to have been in the field with you man... One day... well experience it together.. along with the cat

 

Don't forget they meditate too!!!

 

Right - time to get some festive food underway. Will look forward to hearing how the day went. I assume there was a service at the local church. Would have made for a nice atmosphere. And did you have the same lovely weather that we had down here in the South-east?

 

Much love brother

 

God Bless 

[LDN]

Hi fishinghat, 

 

I went on it because I was in the middle of horrific withdrawal at that time having come off the Doulextine in 3 weeks and my benzos weren't giving me relief. So my p doc put me on Chropromazine for the anxiety. It helped a lot at the time.

 

God Bless!

[LDN]

Hey man! Very very very tired here! First Christmas down in the country for 7 years! I now have a further 3, yes 3 (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) days of commitments!!!!! 

 

The last 2 weeks of anxiety have left me running of empty and these occasions are so so tiring. Plus I am doing these massive exposures on shaky ground, not stable ground unlike before. 

 

Last night my anxiety wasn't great and then I was going out for my night time smoke and the door had the latch on. So I was locked out, at 6 am in freezing cold!!! I had to call outside my parents window. My dad woke up after not too long thankfully and opened the door for me!! But I was quite shaken by it, I didn't know I long I would be out there for! So was pretty anxious going to bed! 

 

Woke up very very flat and then the anxiety joined in as well. Went out for 17 minutes of meditation to try and find my love and came back in and gave it everything I had. My brain felt so claustrophobic and it was a lot to take in opening all the presents. Then just as we sat down for Christmas dinner I started getting really anxious, was a biological wave. Not as strong as Sunday but wasn't nice. Then we went back and opened some more presents and chilled out a bit. 

 

I am thinking so much about the supplements and all that and getting my equilibrium right. I can't take in what a great achievement I am doing because I am so focussed on sorting this anxiety out. It did come at such a bad time this year, Christmas. I want to try adding in some more supplements since the C8 MCT helped but the next 3 days are too busy! This the worst phase of anxiety I have had all year, but things always come up at Christmas! There is a reason I haven't come down for 7 years!!!!!!! It just is the way it is! 

 

Anyway I came here for my family, not myself. I am really tired, run down and flat right now but really I should be buzzing since today was a massive achievement. I have had so many massive exposures this year I am losing at bit my gratitude. Only about a week 1/2 ago I had the pub party and now this!! Plus the journey down on Sunday! It's one thing after another at the moment! 

 

I apologise for my ranting tone, I'm sorry man! It's just like THREE MORE DAYS of this and it is just overwhelming. Cousins coming at 1 tomorrow as well!! 

 

But overall another goal for the year achieved! I have so much to be grateful for and I really am, so I hope I don't come across ungrateful, I am just very run down. 

 

So proud of you today man!!! Massive well done! And your wife as well!!! Fantastic! I was thinking of you both today!! That is a massive achievement for your wife! Talk about going in at the deep end!! WOW! 

 

You have handled yourself with such class, dignity, courage and empathy. I was thinking today in my meditation how incredible you have acted in these last weeks, and how blessed I am to learn of someone of such deep spirituality as yourself. I am in awe of you! I just really hope you can see for yourself how special you are! You need to know you are extraordinary and what you have overcome and achieved in this earthly realm is amazing!!! Such an incredible example for me to learn from! 

 

So I apologise again if the next 3 days I am bit short or exhausted or ranty!! 

 

That was a very profound moment on Tuesday and I am so grateful. I could have stayed in that moment forever! I found a good quote I will show you in one of the books I got for Christmas! About acceptance and letting go! 

 

Well done again for today man!!

 

Love you so much brother! 

 

God Bless!

[LDN]

GAIL GAIL GAIL!!!!!!!!!

 

My superstar and hero!!!! 

 

I am so grateful to God for that moment, I feel so lucky! 

 

But this peace and joy and love will come for you! You had it before my love and it will come back! 

 

You are so special and God loves you so so so much!!! 

 

Remember I am always here for you!! 

 

I love you will all my heart!!!

[gail]

London, can you do us the favor of telling us the title and the writer of that book on acceptance and letting go. Thank you! Many will look it up.

I so enjoy reading you, always eager to open my tablet in the morning. Can't follow it all, but it needs reading more than once. And the language stops me at times. Remember, I'm French speaking. With love, enjoy what you can. Kisses to Chinchin. And of course to you. Love you!

[gail]

Dear Scrat, I'm trying to understand when you say TREES THAT ARE LIVING IN ME.
I have no ideA of what you mean but very interested to understand. So, if you have a few minutes, can you go any farther than this please. Sounds so interesting.

Proud of your wife Scrat,an exposure that can bring other exposures! Yeah!you took great care of her as you mentioned you would. Lovage my sweet.

[fishinghat]

LDN

I have serious concerns that your chlorpromazine may be at least the partial the cause of your symptoms right now. There is some thoughts that with long term it may make things worse instead of better.

I will continue to work on other items and see what I find.

I read that you had a pretty good day and am hoping those continue to occur more frequently.

[invalidusername]

Hi Gailage...

 

Yes, I too want to know the quote and details of the acceptance book! I am forever having problems with this, and I know you do too. It is horrible weather here today, there is no light, lots of wind and rain, it is very difficult to be positive!

 

But anyway - to explain what I meant with the tree. It was like I explained some weeks ago about the cup of tea, but this might have been forgotten - which I understand. It is all based on Buddhist ideas. The leaves are taken from the Kratom tree, and while they might physically die, their spirit lives on when it comes to me and I drink it. The spirit of the leaf is still living as it had such lovely effects for me. If the leaf was dead, then I would feel nothing. So the leaf is still alive and it lives on in me. The leaf makes me feel good and my goodness is spread to other people through what I do and say - especially on the forum. So nothing truly dies - even trees and leaves! 

 

Thinking of you my sweet and prayers continue... and just think - very soon you will have Max!!! I hope you have the cigars ready!!

 

Much much lovage...

[invalidusername]

Hey brother...

 

You must have been tired to write that early!! LOL. I was imagining the scene when you got locked out last morning! That would have got you right away... just trying to let yourself go and the slightest thing like that and you are thinking the worst! 

 

Hmmmm - 3 days of commitments. Extra prayers required this end!! But as recent experiences have shown us, you have worked better when there is something to do - some distraction, so this might be exactly what you need. I am finding that same thing but with this emotional flatness. If I am outside, or away from the flat at least and ding something, I feel more emotion going on - even just talking to a neighbour, or on the phone. My emotional flatness seems to be consistent with the amount of time I am alone with my thoughts and no externalised contact. This is what worries me about this time of year. Still, I have one client tomorrow which will give me 2 hours outside, so that will be a start. The biggest problem is the end of next week when it all goes back into full swing and I have had 11 days of doing next to nothing! But I am doing far better than last year. What I would have given last year to feel a "bit flat"!!! I should be dancing on the ceiling this year!!

 

So you had cousins when I woke up and was reading this - so you were really up that early? Maybe the earlier night will have compensated - but hope the change of hours in your schedule didn't screw anything up. How did the first of these three commitments go? I assume it was the same family that you saw when you were down in the country home last time?

 

I must admit that my meditation has still been slipping. I did start last night again, but I fell asleep.. again. I need to do this earlier in the day, but I find it difficult. I am hoping that it will help me through this flatness. Meditation isn't something I can force myself into as my head just keeps playing all the thoughts round and round. This time of night it is much better and I suddenly get a spurt of good feeling so I want to do other stuff and forget about the meditation. I need to trust that the meditation will come into its own if I set time aside for it. I am very proud of how you stick to this schedule - those 17 minutes you had - it would have done something, even if you did have a slight case of the claustrophobic brain.

 

In addition to that - what an achievement for being the first time down in the country for 7 years! And in the midst of this anxiety patch as well. You were even toying with the idea of not going a few days back, but there you are and doing exactly what you haven't managed to do for the last 7 years. You have faced the anxiety and done it anyway. That attitude of "what the hell" has helped you here as I am sure you are not regretting going down there...

 

I just hope you can keep yourself grounded for the next couple of days with these commitments. Here I am in the safety of my own flat, and you are braving the world! I know I do my work etc all year round, but I really couldn't be doing with any more at this time of the year - despite what I said earlier about needing to be out. And again, it is good practice for me, so that when I start worrying about Christmas 2020, which will be soon into January I expect (!), I can at least look back and say that it was so much better than last year and that I do not need to be worried at all...

 

The wife also extends her gratitude for your words. She has stopped everything today as it exhausted her, but over the course of the day she too has started to feel very flat. It will be tough at the moment, but need to keep focus. I have found myself doing little bits of work that need doing because it is something I have to do and requires no emotion. I want to do something else, art maybe, or listen to music, but it just doesn't give me the emotional fulfillment, and of course it worries me to do these things and find I do not enjoy them and then it will instil more depression etc... But again, this is a learning time for us all. Will see what tomorrow brings.

 

Will look forward to hearing how you do today... and all cat related antics!

 

Much love brother

 

God Bless

[LDN]

Fishinghat I am so so grateful for your help! It is an extraordinary act of kindness! 

 

I find what you say about the Chlopromazine very interesting. It would be a dream to get off it because my energy would be so much greater! It really really does weaken you. Considering my state with the Lyme, I am obviously already weak, so this just makes me even weaker.

 

I think the long term is very important. I have been ill for 8 1/2 years so my mentality is very focussed on the long term. So if it is also better to come off for the long term then that is another reason to stop it. 

 

So I think I will wait till I get back from the country to start - it will be a more stable environment. I would be interested in your ideas about how to come off. I take 1 25mg pill. I have a pill cutter, so could cut little bits off maybe. It isn't meant to have withdrawal or dependance but still it is important to do it steady, I think you would agree. 

 

Again I am incredibly thankful. I have told my parents about your discoveries and they are very very thankful as well for your extreme kindness and help!

 

God Bless!

[LDN]

GAIL GAIL GAIL! 

 

Those are such moving words for me to read!! You are so kind and caring and supportive! You just have such an amazing heart! 

 

YOU ARE EXTRAORDINARY! 

 

I always can't wait to see what you have posted!! Your words are a joy to read, since I see Jesus in you and you have such wisdom! 

 

For the book that you and IUN mentioned I am not sure which one you mean - if you or IUN could maybe give some details? Thanks guys! 

 

Also of course I understand you reading your 1st language, so a big bravo for that!! Always ask me anything if you want to!! 

 

Chin Chin sends her love!!

 

JOY IS COMING!! 

 

I love you so much!

[LDN]

Hey brother! Wow so much to tell you but I am so weak here! So firstly tomorrow is now a day off!! Phew! But then the 28th and 29th I am doing things, but at least tomorrow just a pure rest day!!! 

 

So onto today. For the last 7 years my cousins and family have celebrated Boxing Day without me. We would do Christmas with my parents and siblings in London and then Boxing Day they would go down to the country to see the cousins. I was of course invited but due to mental health and physical health I wasn't up for coming to the country! It is a tradition going back years and years we spend Boxing Day with these cousins. So the last 7 years I have spent Boxing Day alone and not celebrations, so you can imagine today was slightly overwhelming!! Plus the last two Boxing Days I had down here I was ill for - one I had just come out of hospital for my OCD and the year before I was in my first major depression. So really the first Boxing Day I felt relatively normal since 2010!!! 9 years!!! That is a 1/3 of my whole time on this earth!!!! When you look at those figures it is just crazy!!! I can't really take it in man! It just shows patience is needed and some things take time but can change!! That 7 year monkey is now off my back! So I would have been only 20 at my last Boxing Day down here!!! 

 

Anyway so i went to bed early and got up at about 2. So actually got a good sleep in. Woke up very flat, and grumpy and just didn't feel like seeing people. I could hear everybody downstairs laughing and I just didn't feel up to it. Got my self ready and then sat on my bed and meditated for about 15 minutes to go over my key principles. Primarily focus on love. I put everything I had into it, and my parents said I seemed very jolly. I must admit i was worried I was a bit grumpy but they said I wasn't. Once I came down we had some presents and then had a meal, though I had nothing because of my GI problems and weird eating schedule. Then just hang out for ages in the main room and then played a game called Mr and Mrs. Have you heard of it? Then they went and I checked the time and I had been down without a break for 5 hours 35 minutes or around that! So my record for a social gathering!! I must admit I wasn't really anxious or tired at all just more feeling a bit brain dead and empty headed, plus lacking in vitality. Still I tried my best, and everybody seemed quite tired from Christmas Day as well. 

 

My cousins left with my brother and sister who went to stay the night at their house and they are going out on a trip tomorrow. I must admit i felt so lonely when they left. I was invited but of course didn't have the energy. Still it hurt and I felt an aching loneliness. I guess you sort of feel this is what I missed over those 7 years. Obviously it is one step at a time and getting down here and celebrating is a massive exposure and achievement but still it's tough sort of being half part of it but not fully. Obviously I have very very limited social interactions for these 7/8 years, whereas before that I was pretty social, so today sort of brought it all to the surface. I never had uni days and all my 20s have been ill and sometimes on days like today it can sting. When they were leaving I was like 'I want to come' but i knew it wasn't realistic obviously. You don't go from 0 to 100, as i say it's a gradual process. 

 

Saying all that, age is just a number and to be honest I am really just happy to be here. For my family for me to be back I think means a lot and that makes me really happy. I really do feel deep in me - I am not here for what I want but what I need and what I can give. This life isn't an ego trip, that doesn't fulfil your soul. Yes I have been ill a long time but then those years have taught me a lot. I do think things of real value they don't just come easy and those years were not wasted at all. My whole spirituality is thanks to them. The person I am here and now is thanks to those years of solitude. There is a plan for me and other than love I then just let it play out. 

 

The meditation and mindful approach has been invaluable these last few days. I said to you before the beauty of it, is the potential is limitless. One of my cousins gave me a Tibetan bowl which makes this calming sound - that was very touching! Also I have so many books to read now as well!! 

 

My sister and cousin are trying to encourage me to let them start a social media site for my poetry. I told them there is no way I am running it LOL!! But they said they would do it themselves. They know how all that stuff works. So we will see what comes of that. Again I have held off for ages, but now I am in full on 'To hell with it' mode! Everything I am just like 'do it'. There never is the perfect time. Just thinking about it is making me stressed LOL! 

 

Everybody finds it so interesting I have no smartphone or any social media. For a young person that is so weird I think. But they also seem quite jealous. 

 

I think this period of being in flux between not being well but being better is going to be quite tough to navigate. Before I just had my routine and lived by that but now I am doing a bit more but still obviously need lots of time to rest. So you get a taste of things but aren't fully in it. I am going to have to adjust my mentality to cope and have a more adjustable routine. When you are resting all the time it is second nature (you don't even think about it), but tonight I feel really anti climatic after a busy day! I feel more lonely and alone tonight despite a day socialising than I did in that time when i was just on my own. So in am sort in a in between stage. I am quite an all or nothing type of person so this will take some time to get used to. 

 

My poor cat was scared today so was in hiding mostly, briefly entered the room but just didn't have the confidence so left. It makes me realise how privileged I am to get so close with her. She found Christmas I think quite difficult as she wasn't herself yesterday, I think too much change from normal. 

 

I hope the client goes well tomorrow man and I must admit was really feeling lonely earlier and so looking forward to coming on here!! 

 

I hope you can also continue the rest. It might be tough but in the long run it will do you the world of good!! 

 

I love you so much man! 

 

God bless!

[gail]

Nice post London! As usual, being yourself entirely! Bravo for that quality.

The book was about acceptance and letting go.

You say you see Jesus in me, this is touching. An imperfect Jesus perhaps? As scared Jesus?

I'm so scared when I get up, fear mostly as I feel so bad inside. And, first thing I do is read you both to get my mind going in the right direction. How I love reading you both! London, when you say that you need your priorities right, like love is the first one, I enjoy that very much.

[gail]

Scrat, very well explained. I had a ha ha moment. Thank you.

Do you feel flat with no emotions on Celexa? Asking cause my brother felt like that. He has stopped with easiness.

You say that you are scared, going real slow should chase that fear away.

Much much lovage to a lovely man whose trying his best in a not so best world. Lovage

[fishinghat]

LDN

No problem at all. That is what I am here for. More info to follow.

[fishinghat]

These two articles are interesting with them indicating that withdrawal from chlorpromazine produces around 3 weeks of withdrawal symptoms. with abrupt stopping of the usage. Most scientific data indicates only those on more than 600 mg/day experience withdrawal. Having said that I would say it may be prudent to taper over a 3 weeks period and withdrawal should be minimal or absent.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...a00105-0005.pdf
WITHDRAWAL OF CHRONIC CHLORPROMAZINE MEDICATION: AN EXPERIMENTAL ANALYSIS

https://journals.sag...674376601100507
ABRUPT WITHDRAWAL OF CHLORPROMAZINE AND
THIORIDAZINE FROM SCHIZOPHRENIC IN-PATIENTS
 

[invalidusername]

Thanks for reply Gailage.

 

I think a lot of the flatness has to do with the amount of time I am spending on my own. The wife is with me, but this is more company than companion. An hour can go past without talking - it can be quite disheartening sometimes, but when you are in the same room together all day, it is sometimes like that. But I will still hug her quite frequently - and her the same. Sometimes actions are better than words. 

 

The time of year doesn't help either of course. It is like many other things, you need to get yourself moving to start feeling any benefit. I just feel very blah at the moment. It is very difficult to make myself do anything. It is tolerable, but doesn't make much of a life. But as I said before, it is much better than last year and I can't complain. Sure, life isn't perfect, but I see far more good times now than I have been. It is a work in progress...

 

Much much lovage. Hope you are looking forward to the arrival of MAX.

 

LDN - the book that we are speaking about was something you mentioned at the end of your post a couple of days ago which read "That was a very profound moment on Tuesday and I am so grateful. I could have stayed in that moment forever! I found a good quote I will show you in one of the books I got for Christmas! About acceptance and letting go! ". So we are just following up on that really!!

 

Don't forget the cigar and whiskey (is it?) for MAX tonight!!

[invalidusername]

Hey man!

 

So day off today? Very glad to hear it - you needed it after - what was it, 5 hours and something.. WOW! That is huge brother. I expect you slept that off well last night. So what is on the cards for the next two days? 

 

It is great that you are in such close knit with your family. My cousins are about the same distance apart, and they come over maybe once a year unless there is a special occasion. My godparents have moved right down to Cornwall, so don't see them very much. But wonderful for you to be in close contact - now more than ever. I have trouble keeping up with all the family tree you have! But again, so nice that you are getting to a point where you are in regular contact after so long. And you have finally put the ill fate of the previous Boxing Days to rest! And to see this all as a part of growing spirituality is a good thing.

 

I do the same as much as I can. I have changed a lot over the last couple of years. As I said some time ago, before all this started, I was so worried that life was too short and I was letting it pass me by - and as such I was not letting myself indulge in life properly. So you can imagine the state I was in when I went into relapse as I was thinking there is even less I can do now to indulge in life now what with all this anxiety! But it all happened for a reason...

 

I am hoping to hear lots of cat story from today if you had plenty of sleep and a day off! And how was the emotional flatness? Much change? Mine wasn't too bad today, but I had a dodgy hour late afternoon, but feel much better this evening - maybe it was the work and brief shopping trip that helped.

 

Not heard of the game you played - but that is what these family moments are all about - board games! Must be strange for everyone to be eating out of place to you - but then again, I am also used to that. If I had been invited to Christmas dinner it would have been very difficult eating a massive dinner when I am normally eating a small bowl of cereal. Would mess things right up! Sounds like you had it all under control though. Again, a massive achievement. Sure a bit of empty-headedness can be expected from all that has occurred recently - so don't think too much on that. As you said, everyone else felt tired from Christmas, so people like us who are dealing with all the emotional stuff too, we need to accept these things. Just think back to the "LDN" a few years back - or even last year.... imagine him looking at you now - the scene in the house over those 5 hours. Imagine him sat in bed back in the East End... what would he say to you? How excited would he be to know that this is what was to come. Can you see it?!

 

I really understand what you are saying about this inbetween stage. Makes a lot of sense to me.Our routines are changing so much as you say and we have got to change to keep up with them all. We sort of have a foot in each part and trying to balance it out and make the gentle transfer over to being more active and involved with things... but s important is the knowing when to give it a breather. I think you are right about this time over Christmas for me. While it is hard having the solitary time, it will balance out all the work I was doing those weeks leading up to Christmas. It is odd to feel alone when you are still socialising. Best guess is that your system is still not used to it. I still get that feeling despite seeing a number of clients every day.

 

One last thing I need to tell you. I was driving home from my client this evening and I was almost home and I was turning a corner into a nearby street, but cast my eye over to the sea as I often do, but I felt like something pushed my head back to the left just as I rounded the corner. It was really strange. It was half a thought that I should move my head, but half a forced movement - like I didn't have a choice but to move my head. Anyway... as my head turned there it was. A car parked right in the middle of the road - no lights, no hazards - no nothing. Could barely see it. I JUST saw it in time to swerve out of the way otherwise it would have been a 25mph head on collision. Quite sure this was divine intervention. Granted the car should not have been there, and in fact I expect someone else would have hit it by now... but I was sure going to be that person. 

 

On that note... I am going to reflect on that with some meditation before dinner I think. Look forward to hearing from you man...

 

Love you brother

 

God Bless

[LDN]

GAIL!

 

I see Jesus in you! How? I see the bravery of Jesus in you! I see the empathy, compassion and kindness of Jesus in you! I see the pure heart of Jesus in you! I see the loving soul of Jesus in you!!! 

 

Jesus suffered so so much - but he still had faith! I see this in you! You never give up! Your faith is very very beautiful and I am touched by your loving soul very very much!! 

 

I said it before you are EXTRAORDINARY!!! 

 

I am in awe of you!! 

 

We are together!! 

 

To my so special Saint Gail!!! 

 

LOVE LOVE LOVE

[LDN]

Hey fishinghat! Some people take 600mg!!!! Wow! 25mg I take just before bed because if I took it in the day it would knock me out!!! 

 

Ok your plan sounds good!! How would you suggest the taper - it is a pill, but I do have a pill cutter. I can cut it in half and then in half again. 

 

Last winter when I tried to come off, I went straight to 1/2 the dose and I had anxiety. 

 

Thanks again so much!

[LDN]

Hey man so first of all the quote so I don't forget!! The book is called the Tao Te Ching - an ancient Chinese poetry text that is key in Taoism. It is thought from the 6th century BC. I got it for Christmas. The quote was - 

 

'Trying to control the world?

I see you won't succeed.

 

The world is a spiritual vessel

And cannot be controlled.' 

 

I just opened it on that page and it was exactly what I have been working on!!!

 

So yeah today was a day off! I did a 58 minute field/garden meditation session. After all the noise of yesterday it was essential I got back to the silence and the solitude. Just walked and stopped around the field and then the garden. In those moments of silence it just is so refreshing. Just quiet, being alone and being in nature! It is my way of re-charging my batteries and solidifying my foundations, so when the exposures come I am ready. Obviously the fresh air would have been good as well. Just a slight change in the pollution levels down here compared to London LOL!!!!! I didn't check the time once I don't think, just present and letting everything be. 

 

Other than that just resting. I had missed my sauna the last two days, so that was good.

 

Yeah man I had a great time with the cat last night. Her age is getting to her sadly, I think she has some arthritis. She is 18. She doesn't jump as much and just seems weaker. But I since we had had guests all day and she was scared, I just really thought I needed to give her some love. She pinned me down on the sofa, sitting up-right. It was like her saying 'I am boss here' LOL!! She is so regal. She is very proud and elegant, which makes it all the more special she is so vulnerable with me. She lay right on top of me, with her head just on my shoulder. We stared into each others eyes LOL!!! Very romantic!! I could feel her breath on my face, she was so close. Then she touched very gently my face with her paw!! That was beautiful man!! Earlier she had her paws over my arm and with the other arm I was giving her back a good scratch and she would hold me tighter and tighter. It was a lovely bonding moment. We have gone straight back to where we were in the summer. My cousins come over quite a lot and she was still too scared to come into the room. I thought to myself wow she was so shy earlier and now she is so close with with me. I feel very lucky she trusts me so much. I can see she is completely at ease with me, no fear at all. She is never flinching or anything. I told you I think that when we first got the house it was 6 months before she would come into the house, apart from food. I think a combination of being abused earlier in her life and being so feral means she is very very wary. Like we can't get her into the car, not even to the vet 5 minutes down the road!! Also she is part Siamese, don't know their characteristics. 

 

So tomorrow we have the friends in the village coming over and then the next day going to my aunt's house where my other aunt is staying for tea. The emotional flatness was a bit better today, and pleased to hear it was the same for you! 

 

Wow what a story, and I am so happy and relieved you are alright and got through that! These moments are incredible. I have experienced something similar and it is an incredible phenomenon. 

 

Love you brother!! 

 

God Bless!

[gail]

Scrat, when you wrote that you still hugged each other, you brought a beautiful smile of gratitude on my face..for that thank you.

You need to remember that I haven't smiled in ages, well more than 35 days. That smile was beautiful, if I say so myself. I felt alive. Merci Mon beau Scrat.

I thought that perhaps that Celexa was making you flat and emotionless, my brother couldn't take any more of that. Sister in law has no problem with it.

And I think that London mixed up his books. It's not the one that I was looking for.

Lovage Scrat, and thank you for putting all that good energy in helping with the forum.love you!

[gail]

London, all those beautiful words about Jesus. That you relate to me. I agree to some but my faith is or was shattered with the last month. I feel it ending soon. No crying this morning, a good sign.

I thank God for both of you in the forum. I feel so less alone with my sometimes misery. You help me both a lot. Lovage to both of you. Gailage, special hugs to chinchin and Max.