2348 replies to this topic

[fishinghat]

Well, I dug through the medical research and can find no data on switching from Cymbalta to Desvenlafaxine. Most of the information I found on switching from ssri to Desvenlafaxine reflected that the Desvenlafaxine only comes in 50 mg tablets so there is no way to taper up on dose as you down taper from the ssri. The few references I found basically suggested to just stop the ssri and the next day start the Desvenlafaxine. Being on the full 50 mg of Desvenlafaxine while weaning the ssri was a concern for serotonin syndrome. Several articles mentioned it takes "several" weeks for the Desvenlafaxine to kick in.

What kind of cross taper did your dr recommend?

[LDN]

So my doctor recommended to go straight to 90mg Cymbalta for a few days, see how I feel, then start 50mg Desvenlafaxine. We discussed serotonin syndrome and she said she was going to be alert to any signs. I think she is keen to see how I fare on 90mg.

 

I see her on Tuesday and was thinking of dropping from 120mg to 90mg today or tommorow. What do you think?

 

I know that 30mg a big jump, but I'm keen to start Desvenlafaxine and also the side effects of Cymbalta are so bad I can barely walk. Last time once I got up to 60mg my withdrawal got better, so maybe coming down from 60mg is when I'll start facing problems. I should add I'm very sensitive to meds.

 

Otherwise I could go count the beads and go to 110mg for a week, then 100mg and then 90mg?

 

Thanks so much all you guys! 

 

And really nice to meet you IUN!

[invalidusername]

Woh... 90mg Cym with 50mg Ven? That is really pushing it. I am shocked your doctor has suggested that.

 

Try to get into the habit of thinking in percentages rather than mg, as the drop is always relative to the dose you are dropping from. So 120 to 90 is a drop of 25%. You need to start this if you are to change to the ven, and hopefully the 90 is enough to keep you stable. I would say go for 10mg at first and see what occurs in the following few days, but DO NOT add the ven.

 

I can sympathise with the whole walking thing. 4 weeks into Lexapro I got really bad shakes and by the 8th week I could barely walk - I was holding onto the wife's arm or the furniture around the flat. Nothing short of horrific.

[fishinghat]

Just an educated guess but I think I would go ahead and make the drop to 90 mg now and see if you have a withdrawal or not. If you do you will be able to go back up to 90 and stabilize before you see your dr on Tues.

[LDN]

OK so went to 90mg today. First few hours felt fine, I actually felt good then this evening suddenly BOOM. For like 1 and half hours felt really weird, scared and just not myself. Now i feel a bit more normal but still a bit weird and anxious. Also, my body feels stronger and I feel less fatigue. 

So what shall I do? Give it another day? See how I feel in the morning?

 

I was getting so stressed over whether to go to 110mg or 90mg. Just so hard to know what to do. I hate this trial and error way of going about things. This drug is really messing with my head, in that the thought of it just stresses me out. I feel like I'm going mad. I feel trapped and it's playing with me.

 

I need to get off this drug because otherwise I can't really walk and so can't work or go out. If on 90mg I'm much stronger, imagine 30mg or 0! Coming off this drug is going to be so hard, sometimes I just can't face it and feel like suicide. I'm having to dig deep into my reserves right now. I have clinical depression and then this drug issue. 

 

Out of interest have any of you heard of anybody bead counting from 120mg? It must take ages! Maybe that's what I need to do, but we'll see how next few days go. 

 

I'm so sorry for all this moaning! I'm not normally like this, but just feel in a nightmare. How is this drug on the market?? 

 

Anyway I suspect you're going to see a lot of me now!

 

Again really sorry for tone of the post.

 

Peace

[fishinghat]

I would try to hang there for several days. There will probably be a little up and down so be patient.

Don't hesitate to come here and let it out. Trust me we have all done that when we went through our withdrawals. That is what we are here for.

This is not a race. If you try and rush things you can pay an unbelievable price in suffering. Just my opinion at this point but I would say that within a week or 2 you may be fairly stable. The next time I would suggest a smaller drop. Probably around 10 mg and see how you do.

Be patient LDN. This will take a while. The good news is that with each drop you should see a small but steady improvement in those side effects, like difficulty walking. Of course you will also see an increase in withdrawal as well. This is definitely a trial of patience.

[gail]

Hello London,

Just a thought here, wouldn't you feel better going on Venlafaxine, Effexor, they have the starter dose at 12.5 ?

I'm with FH, give the 90 a few day. if its unbearable, well, jump to 120.

Do come back anytime, we are listening. Just remember that we've been there and that all the questions you have, we had them also, even the nutty ones..

[invalidusername]

Really feel for you LDN. Being in a similar place with reserves, I really do understand. Patience is never something that comes easily. And the stress of which dose, what should I do, should I have done that instead? Oh, it drives you round the bend! Given the state of my anxiety, I am contemplating the reinstatement of citalopram 3 weeks ago.

 

As you have gone for the 90mg, I am with both of the guys here. You do need to give it a little time to gauge your systems response. But please keep coming back and filling us in on how you are doing so we can do whatever is in our capacity to help you...

 

Looking forward to hearing from you.

[LDN]

Thanks so much guys!

 

A little update - since I posted I've been in a state constant anxiety, so a bit over 12 hours including my sleep. I somehow managed to sleep pretty well, considering. I managed to get 8 hours. I woke up twice anxious but then managed to get straight back to sleep.

 

It's a weird anxiety because I don't feel panic or fear too much but mostly that just pure physical effects - pounding heart, crazy butterflies in the stomach. It's totally physical exhausting! I feel like I've run a marathon as I type this. The question is how long can I take this level of physical assault before I mentally crack? That's my worry. Obviously my body is in shock so I can see the logic of what to you say about waiting a bit longer. I was thinking myself of going back onto 120mg today because last summer pushed myself too much and it was devastating. But I think it's about finding a middle way. 

 

I must say writing that post last night was very cathartic. After I felt much more at peace with my situation and ready for the challenge ahead! Knowing other people have been able to get off in tough situations gives me so much strength! This is definitely up there as one of the biggest challenges of my life! 

 

Ok I'm about to collapse with tiredness! Thanks so much again. I keep you filled in.

 

Peace

[fishinghat]

LDN, sometimes it lasts for a week or two and sometimes a few months. At a high dose like 90 mg I am leaning more toward a couple of weeks.

[LDN]

The anxiety has reduced but now I'm feeling really depressed. I can feel the tears are coming, like last time. This is unbearable. This heavy depression has hit me so hard. My mind feels scrambled. Everything is a bit of a haze. I'm losing myself. Wow. If it continues like this how much longer before going back up? I think 30mg may have been too big a jump.

 

I can't cope with knowing I could stop all this pain if I go back to 120mg. It's so tempting. On one hand I know I have to get off this but when your in the mental pain I am right now all you can think of is short term relief! It's a mental trap. It's short term pain for long term gain but what if you just can't take it? I also sacred that if I go back to 120mg it will feed the dependence and so have to tough it out, but at what cost? I just hate this withdrawal depression. It's worse than normal depression! I'm close to the edge. In the space of a few hours I've devoured by this darkness and pain!!

 

Imagine getting this bad withdrawal at 90mg! I didn't know that was possible!

 

At least in the summer my withdrawal depression was at 30mg, now it's 90mg!! Shows I should have stayed at the lowest dose I felt comfortable, which for me was 60mg at the time. Why don't doctors know this?? So in the summer I was comfortable at 60mg, now I can't cope at 90mg!! In the summer I thought things couldn't get worse!

 

If you lose faith in the doctors what can you do? The doctors seem to know nothing about withdrawal.

 

Gail my doctor suggested Desvenlafaxine instead of venlafaxine as she said it has less side effects, she said is a bit like citalopram and escitalopram.

 

IUN your description of the mental process is spot on! Just endless what ifs going around in your head! It's a huge pressure. 

 

Sorry for such a negative post! I'm so sorry.

[fishinghat]

If it has gotten that bad you might consider going back up to 100 and see how much relief that brings.

[gail]

London,

How I feel for you. Now, have you got something for anxiety? How tempting it must be to go back on 120 mg !

If you can get the anxiety down, it will help and encourage you to be patient in this process.

Benadryl is good for anxiety, Gravol for motion sickness, probably under a different name, is pretty good. Benzos, we know that.

Prayers for you London! Love!

[gail]

Reading Fishinghat, great idea!

[invalidusername]

LDN - this has truly got you brother, and what you are describing is just how it is. The anxiety is the chemical imbalance going on in your brain - like you say, you get all the physical effects which tricks you into thinking you are anxious. It is like walking around with a cast on your leg even though your leg isn't broken. The disability is the same. The worst part is that when confronted with an anxious or stressful situation, you are starting with high levels of anxiety already, so it goes off the chart. The same goes for depression - we have to be so careful to protect ourselves from anything that can affect us during these times - but that is not always easy.

 

I am not one to look back on what could have been, but I was worried that this would occur when I first replied to you;

 

"Personally, I would still avoid the jumps of 30mg. You will do well to hang on the dose for a few weeks, but the drop is still 30mg whenever you do it, and the shock to the system will still be the same."

 

Like you say a 30mg drop is a 30mg drop, and being sensitive, I was worried this would hit you as hard as it has. As the others have said, if you really cannot stick it, don't try any more, just go back up. You could try 100mg first, or maybe 105mg, but you need to go slow.

 

We're all here for you - and going through something very similar right now, you are not alone. 

[LDN]

So this is not going to be easy to write, as I hate to be negative, but it's important you guys know the truth. This evening I had a major breakdown and I must say I feel lucky to be alive. Tears, shaking, fear, horror, terror, unbearable mental pain, complete desolation. Depression of the very very worst. I was crying into my mum arms like a baby and then had a nap and couldn't move as was paralysed with pain and fear. It was crazy. I didn't know what day it was or what was going on. It was pure pure hell and I am afraid I felt close to taking my life. However, I prayed and somehow got through to now. My family are everything to me and I'm so sacred for them that something might happen to me. 

 

I was struggling with bad depression for months and the last few weeks haven't been good at all. I would never have tried coming down at this time if my doctor hadn't been so keen on me trying it. Anyway, the cymbalta was obviously holding me my just about together and this has broke the camels back. I have very bad clinical depression and have for years. I've been hospitalised, ECT and nothing really has worked. I'm so sensitive to medication as well. I tried Lexapro in about November and it made me pass out. I've tried Zoloft, Imipramine, Lithium. My doctor is looking into ketamine now. Depression is a horrible horrible illness. It's been so tough but faith and family keep me going. 

 

The big problem is it looks like I need cymbalta for my depression but it's side effects make me so physically weak. It's a nightmare.

 

I see my physiatrist tomorrow so I'll see what she suggests. 

 

You are all heroes! Thank you for everything! Honestly it helps so much!

 

Peace

[LDN]

Also Gail I read in another post about your ill health. I am so sorry and I am praying and sending love! From reading your posts on this thread and others I can tell you are the most wonderful person! It's so lovely that you can still help me, despite your health. I wish you nothing but happiness! God Bless!

[invalidusername]

Hi LDN... just doing my rounds before turning in and need to write to you.

 

I could feel the desperation in the way you wrote your post here, and before anything I want you to realise just how much you have done for yourself and your family this evening. It is not easy to admit to being at the point of taking your life, but you have given people hope with what you have done... I know things get very internalised at these times, but permit me to be just one to offer my thanks for being that rock for others to take strength... just like our Gail as you have also written.

 

Keep that faith my friend. Your friends who have gone before, who have already traded time for eternity, are up there listening to you and caring for you. We may not always see the big picture at the time, but it is there. One day we will realise what it has all been about. 

 

I will be interested to hear what your psychiatrist has to say. 

 

Finally, am I right in thinking you are, like myself, in the UK? I am not too far from London myself - but the big city scares me a little!!

 

Will look forward to hearing from you tomorrow (if you can), but for now, I will take my leave and include you in my prayers before nodding off.

[fishinghat]

"This evening I had a major breakdown and I must say I feel lucky to be alive. Tears, shaking, fear, horror, terror, unbearable mental pain, complete desolation. Depression of the very very worst. I was crying into my mum arms like a baby and then had a nap and couldn't move as was paralysed with pain and fear. It was crazy. I didn't know what day it was or what was going on. It was pure pure hell and I am afraid I felt close to taking my life. However, I prayed and somehow got through to now. My family are everything to me and I'm so sacred for them that something might happen to me."

Boy can I feel your pain. I spent nearly 9 months like that with three of them as severe as you just posted. While I would classify mine as anxiety based not depression it is a horrible feeling of fear and doom. During that time the drs tried 6 different meds on me without success until Zoloft finally worked. I am not saying Zoloft will work for you just reflecting on the ordeal.

While this may seem like a return of your depression I can assure you it is classic withdrawal. Even many of the members who took it for pain suffered like this even though they had no mental illness history. I will pray for you LDN. Have you went back up to 100 mg yet? If not them I would do that asap. You need some relief. When you get back to a stable dosage I would recommend bead counting very slowly over a period of 1 to 2 years.

[gail]

Oh my sweet London, you have been through a nightmare, and you made me cry.

Thank you for your nice words, but I must say that I'm not longer in pain. They found the good opiates.

But I do have depression and anxiety, they come in phases. Like two good weeks and two bad, I'm in the middle of the bad one. I can understand you, feel for you and pray for you. Same for Fishinghat and IUN, we rely a lot on prayers.

I'd like to take you in my arms and tell you that it will pass. It always do. And to go in the same sense as IUN, here's a reminder on suffering.

THE HIDDEN GRACE OF PAIN AND SUFFERING

HANG IN THERE, KNOW THAT YOU ARE NOT ALONE.
THERE'S A BIGGER PICTURE THAT YOU WILL SEE ONE DAY
THAT WILL BRING YOU PEACE AND UNDERSTANDING
LIKE YOU CAN NEVER IMAGINE.

[LDN]

Wow what amazing messages! I showed my mum and she said it 'restored her faith in humanity'. What a special group of people you are!

 

You prayers worked! After posting last night I felt better and this morning woke without anxiety or depression. 

 

I saw my psychiatrist today. She was very apologetic about what happened. She is a lovely, humble person. She said she didn't realise how bad I was doing before I decided to reduce my dose and agreed it was a bad time to try it since I was already in a very unstable place. She told me to call her next time so we don't have a miscommunication like this. She thought I should back to 120mg and work on getting my depression a bit better, before trying to reduce the cymbalta. I agreed. I have to put my family first and I just can't risk losing my life right now. Even if that means living so weak from the side effects, at least I'm alive. She said next time I see her we will look at Zoloft fishinghat. She is also keen for me to try ketamine. I've been pretty seriously depressed for over 6 months now, so it's been tough. 

 

I am still in shock from yesterday if I am being honest. I feel blessed to be here right now and can't really take in how close I was to the end. God wants me here for the moment at least! 

 

Got therapy tomorrow. I feel exhausted but will be good to discuss the immense trauma I'm feeling. 

 

Fishinghat - I had the same thought as you about 1 to 2 years program. In the summer I would have freaked out about so long but now I realise your so right that is not a race! I'm in no rush. We will do it slow and steady! I'm at peace with that. Also as I mentioned above, my doctors thinking of Zoloft. I'll let you know how that gets on.

 

IUN - That's right in London, in Fulham. To be honest it scares me as well!! So you are based near by London then? Also I notice you are night owl like me!

 

Gail - I am so happy you are not in pain! I'm sorry to hear of your low mood. I love that poem/prayer, I'm going to print it out and put it by my bed. Did you write it? 

 

I love that you are all so spiritual like me! I would love to talk to you more about it, as I feel I've found souls on my wave length! Imagine one day we will all meet and be friends in eternity! What a lovely thing to look forward to! I must say I really feel your positivity coming through to me, it's definitely making me stronger. So thank you for building me up! I will pray for all of you too!

 

In the end everything will make sense and be well. I love that message! 

 

God Bless and Peace

[invalidusername]

"You prayers worked! After posting last night I felt better and this morning woke without anxiety or depression."

 

AMEN! What a fantastic way to end my day in seeing this message. I am beaming right now thinking of that relief we were all seeking for you. It is amazing how things can turn on a dime this way. Even if tomorrow turns out to be a bit of slip back, you can see just how close the light is in your moments of darkness. 

 

I am indeed a night owl. I was diagnosed with delayed sleep phase disorder, which essentially means, it is quite impossible for me to sleep before around 4am. If I did, and woke with the rest of the race in the usual morning hours, I would last about 3 hours or so before feeling completely run down. I have been like this for around 15 years. Doesn't bother me - when I get to watch the sunrise in the early summer mornings, I am filled with awe. The blues, yellows and purples of the sky waking up...

 

Geolocation-wise I am in Kent, so a little way out, but that is how I like it. Close enough to the neighbouring home counties and the city, but close enough to the coast.

 

So back to you medication, it does sound like you might need to bridge with something else, but to be done so very very slowly. Zoloft could be a saviour for you - or what we have as Sertraline over here in the UK. I have not tried it myself, and hopefully I will find Lexapro/Excitalopram to be my last AD. But please keep us updated on what is discussed with your psychiatrist. Whilst we are not MD's, our combined experience and knowledge I like to think makes for a lot. My first experience with this forum was when I had seen my doctor several times and a test at the hospital following severe GI problems on two meds. I was booked in for a hospital appointment for suspected colitis and I was in a right state. Hat told me that I should be taking the meds 12 hours apart. Simple as that. Three days later - all problems were gone. Same when I was about to switch AD's because they were pooping out before I did my own research to discover that the liquid iron I was taking had been absorbing the meds before they reached my stomach. Sometimes it pays to seek help elsewhere!

 

Anyway. On this great news, I will prepare to turn in. Wishing you a blissful slumber LDN, 

 

Hear from you soon.

[gail]

My sweet London,

I'm so happy to see you back with stars in your eyes. We thank you God.

No, I did not write this, it was in a magazine and I fell in love with it, so I wrote it down and glued it in front of my desk as a reminder. You may find it if you Google Life in balance.

You have a smart psychiatrist, no hurry. Oh, tell your mom that I liked what she said!

And let's see what today brings us, anytime you need, we are here for you London. Love!

[fishinghat]

I agree with IUN. Your message made my day. We have all been or are where you are at now. We will always be here when you need us.

God Bless

[LDN]

Thank you thank you so much! Your prayers helped so much!! I love the community on here, so if you don't mind I may continue to pop in and just check up on how you are all doing and fill you on my progress. I absolutely agree IUN i've found the knowledge on here incredible. I've not come across anybody online or in real life who gets even close to fishinghat's knowledge of cymbalta. What a privilege it is for me, so thank you fishinghat! 

 

All of you I appreciate every word more than I can say. It's lonely being depressed for years and I've always been too sacred to go on forums before this one. This is my first forum ever. I got very lucky to find you guys. I have huge fears so get positivity is amazing. I think coming on here is really helping me evolve and grow emotionally. I can literally feel the strength in me grow when I come on here! I hope that doesn't sound too weird lol! But there is a lot of positive energy on here. I think it is beautiful that we have suffered, so can appreciate what we are each going through! 

 

I saw my therapist today. I told her I had 3 people praying me for me and she was so happy! She is spiritual as well! 

 

IUN - I have lovely memories of Kent as a child. My aunt and uncle lived in Tunbridge Wells and so I would visit a lot. They would often drive into the countryside for walks. It was magical! I also had family friends in Sandwich, who I visited once or twice. I got to see the coast! Those were more innocent times! Living in the city is not ideal, everybody always in a rush! Also, I can't go to sleep till very late about 4 or 5am at earliest. I've never had it diagnosed as anything though. I like the night, especially in the city as it is the only time it is quiet!! I just read. Last summer I was in the countryside and seeing the sun rise was so beautiful. I love countryside dawns, what a wonder! I hope the escitalopram all goes well. I will be willing it! 

 

Gail - I will have it by my bed. It will make me think of you! I hope your mood is holding out okay! Also I will tell my mum! 

 

Fishinghat - I hope wherever you are on your journey, it is going well. I must say it sounds like you faced such hell with 3 months of that! You must be so strong. What an inspiration. I saw the article posted on here in NYT where scientists were talking about a long term withdrawal program. Interesting it is getting main stream attention now!

 

Sorry for such a long post! I must say I'm knackered but my therapist said trauma exhausts you. 

 

Peace and God Bless

[fishinghat]

A wonderful post that is greatly appreciated. Looking forward to your updates.

[gail]

Beautiful post London! Do stop by anytime, it's a pleasure to have you as a member.

See you soon London! Love.

[invalidusername]

Ditto - lovely post - thank you.

 

I started my late bedtimes when I was in Uni second time round. I lived about 35 miles away from the campus, and we would often stay in the lab until late in the night/early hours - but then having a lecture first thing, I would get a hot chocolate from the machine and curl up on one of the sofas as it wasn't worth the round trip back home. This soon became habit. But after I finished uni, I was grateful for not being limited to 4 hours sleep, so I just stayed in bed and slept until midday. Fortunately, being self-employed, I have worked my life around it - and like you, I really appreciate the early hours where no-one can knock on the door, no-one can call or text. It is truly a time that we can relax! 

 

You sounded very positive in your message last night, so again, this is great news. There will be ups and downs to come, but just try to accept them as they occur and don't push yourself, nor feel bad if you have a string of good and then a not-so-good. Our bodies get tired very easily from all this emotional upheaval!

 

Bless you London... keep the faith my friend.

[LDN]

Hi guys. 

 

Thought I would pop in and say hello. Been up and down last few weeks as you would expect.

 

Today I was hit hard by depression! It can be a monster this chronic depression. Normally it comes for a few months and then goes for a bit then comes back again, but this time it's been with me since last July. I've never had such a long run of it! It draining me and I'm fighting so hard to keep up my positive energy and not let the darkness overcome me.

But today was raw! I felt so so lonely and aching emotional pain. I was talking to my therapist and just couldn't connect emotionally. It was like something blocking me feeling her warmth. I've never felt so lonely in the presence of somebody and I get on really well with her. It was losing touch with reality. Just falling and falling. My soul being eaten away. 

 

I'm 26 and sort of feeling the weight of being ill for so many years. I think I need to take each day as it comes and not get too wound up about the future, but that's easier said that done! I got to just focus on the present.

 

I started Zoloft last week and am on 25mg. As my physiatrist says I have treatment resistant depression, we're also looking into ketamine.

 

On a more positive note my anxiety has been pretty stable. Also I'm tackling my social anxiety by starting to go outside, but doing it very slowly! So far I'm able to get the pavement outside and walk a little each way. I must admit that's pretty exiting for me. 

 

ION - I saw you had it a bit rough recently. I'm sorry to hear that. I'm sending my best wishes. I admire your bravery. Also I saw in another threat you mentioned you followed a combination of Paganism and Christianity. I'm exploring spiritually at the moment and that sounded fascinating to me. Is there material you would suggest looking at? 

 

Hope you had a good last few weeks Gail and fishinghat! 

 

God bless guys!

[gail]

Hello London,

Good to see you, thanks for the update. It's been a rough patch for you but you're still in early stages of withdrawal. This is to be expected.

At least your anxiety has left the ship. I know how depression can be hard to live with. I suffer from that myself. Like two good weeks, three bad and so on.

I quite understand the feeling you had with your therapist, your mind was covered by a veil where nothing comes in.

Be strong and patient for a month or so. Then you can see if any improvement.

What's that post I missed from IUN about paganist and Christianity, I missed it.

London, I also have a dada for Christianity. It's a gift that depression and anxiety brings.

See you later London!