97 replies to this topic

[TryinginFL]

I'm sorry that you surrendered your license!  Could you not have just kept it and not driven for a while?

 

Regarding your Dr. and medical staff having  no clue regarding this withdrawal, most are asshats and have no clue.  I suggest that you change Drs. until you find one who has knowledge of this...   I changed Drs. 3 times and I'm sure FH has had many more changes than that!

[fishinghat]

I am on my 7th shrink (psychiatrist). They meet me half way or else. A couple of them retired but I think it was because of me anyway.  lol

[justsayno]

I'm sorry that you surrendered your license!  Could you not have just kept it and not driven for a while?

 

Regarding your Dr. and medical staff having  no clue regarding this withdrawal, most are asshats and have no clue.  I suggest that you change Drs. until you find one who has knowledge of this...   I changed Drs. 3 times and I'm sure FH has had many more changes than that!

 

Over here in UK it's mandatory by law too let the driving agency know of any seizure or blackout. ( How ever severe )

 

Voluntary surrender is apparently better than them actually revoking your license. ( This what happens if you don't tell them )

If you are seizure free for either 6 or 12 months then you can have your license back for 3 years.  If in 3 years everything is okay and no seizure , you can then have full license back.

 

They sent a form out about my seizure and I put that it was a one off provoked seizure ( even though happened twice , ha )

 Obviously , if after the first seizure , I knew for certain that it was caused by Duloxetine then their wouldn't of been a second!

 

I just have a feeling though that I won't be believed and that they won't take side effects from medication as a ' Provoker '

 

Apart from that , I can't sleep , my Urticaria is still no better , getting brain zaps ..

 

So yeah , many thanks Cymbalta ........ ********* wonderful drug 

[justsayno]

10 MG 

 

[justsayno]

Hi guys

 

Just over a month since I last posted

 

I had another serious seizure on Friday which left me in Hospital. Was eating again at the time and I choked / swallowed gunk down

 

I was on 4.5 MG at the time after tapering @ 1.5 every week

 

I have now decided to stop this poison. 

 

Only time will tell now if the seizures go ... 

 

Do you guys think I made the right decision stopping when I did or would you of left it later ?

[gail]

Hello Justsayno,

Ah! From hearing about everybody's experience, the last few milligrams are a tough ride. So, why not continue the way you did?

FishingBrain is off today, but I can assure you that his answer will be to continue and not stop at 4.5mg.

Should you decide to just stop now, let us know how it goes. There could always be an exception, who knows!

[fishinghat]

Absolutely right Gail. Several studies show the faster you come off Cymbalta the greater the risk of seizures. I would get back on the 4.5 mg, stay there a week or so more and then go back to weaning at an even slower rate.

[justsayno]

its 9:30 here tonight in UK

 

I'm five hours late therefor 

 

Should I take one now or skip and wait until tomorrow ?

 

 

Took 4.5 tonight. 

 

Do you think the problem is the amount I'm reducing by or the length of time between ?

 

Paranoid as hell.

[fishinghat]

LOL   Paranoia is another name for Cymbalta withdrawal!!!

 

The best thing would be to drop less but more often.

 

1.5 mg every week is too big a drop in one day if you are having seizures. Instead you would be better off doing 0.5 mg every 2 to 3 days.BUT now that you are getting down to the end of your wean I would suggest going at half that speed. Those last few beads are evil.

[justsayno]

Thanks for your help FishingHat , much apprechiated

 

I have decided to reverse back to 5.5 MG starting from tomorrow. A bit like a system restore on a computer.  Revert it back to when I was last feeling okay and then start with what you said - 0.5 every 3 days.  I will be staying on 5.5 for a good week or so first though.

 

EDIT - 0.2 every 3 days 

[justsayno]

Could you please try and help me figure out where it all went wrong ?

 

The seizure happened on Friday and I'm trying to work out what dose caused it , if that makes sense ?

 

Was it Fridays dose of 4.5 MG or an earlier reduction ?  

 

I did notice a fairly common withdrawal symptom on the 17th when I was on 6 mg.  It was that weird vertigo / brain zappy / light headedness feeling.

I'm pretty certain that I read somewhere that the above symptoms are indeed a precursor to a seizure.

 

Could the seizure of been caused by a build up and fridays reduced dose was the final nail in the coffin ?

 

Below is my tapering diary from the beginning of March.  I did say in a previous post that I was on 1.5 mg / week. From speaking to my mum though, this was not the case.

 

2nd - 9 mg    |    8th - 8 mg    |    14th - 7 mg    |    17th - 6 mg    |    20th - 5 mg    |    24th - 4.5 mg ( Seizure )

 

It does seem apparent from the above that I was not staying on a dose for long enough. Is that right ?

 

Thanks in advance

[fishinghat]

If you look at your schedule it can be rewritten as ...

 

1 mg drop          6 day recovery

1 mg  drop         3 day recovery

1 mg drop          3 day recovery

1 mg drop          5 day recovery

Then a 1/2 mg drop on the 24th with a seizure.

 

Just my thoughts but you had increase you drop rate the during the previous 2 weeks and it caught up with you. Remember, the last few grams are nasty and must be weaned much slower. My recommendation is 7 days to stabilize or longer if you feel you need it. Then a 1/2 mg drop every 7 to 8 days.

 

Also you are right about the brain zaps and swooshing being a precursor to a seizure.

 

You are Ok, just a little impatient like we all were.  lol

[justsayno]

This is driving me stir crazy now.

 

Paranoid to sleep. Paranoid to eat. Paranoid to do ******* anything !!!

 

I had to increase from 5.5 to 7 on Wednesday and I might have to go even higher.  I presume that's alright ? 

 

My mouth problems are worrying the hell out of me me.  Every day now when swallowing , the right side of my mouth briefly sticks shut.  It's very similar to how my seizure would start.

I've also been having another problem regarding my mouth / throat which I've ignored up until now but I can't any longer ....  It's like I get this choking sensation and I have to cough to save myself ? ? ? .... Always happen as soon I'm about to nod off    

 

As well as the above .. I get awful brain zaps , ringing in my ears and constant pins / needles in both hands.

 

 

Not really sure what is going on at the moment

[fishinghat]

Going back up some is a good start. I had some of those symptoms but not all. difficulty swallowing sometimes, feeling like choking, The paranoia was overwhelming combined with fear of immediate death. Pins and needles, etc.

 

Most people underestimate the power in those last few mg of medicine. Don't feel alone. If you need to just go back up some more and stabilize and e=when you start back down go very very slowly.

[justsayno]

Going back up some is a good start. I had some of those symptoms but not all. difficulty swallowing sometimes, feeling like choking, The paranoia was overwhelming combined with fear of immediate death. Pins and needles, etc.

 

Most people underestimate the power in those last few mg of medicine. Don't feel alone. If you need to just go back up some more and stabilize and e=when you start back down go very very slowly.

 

Thanks for your message

 

I am now on 8 but may go back to 10 in a few days just so I can level it for a week or so ..... and then down 0.5 every 7 - 10 days 

 

Lets hope no more seizures after that.

 

By the way ; You were right in what you said about people underestimating the lower doses. I thought exactly that ; The lower the dose, the lower the effect. Ha - I was certainly proved wrong!

[gail]

Hello Justsayno,

Good move. Just wondering here, outside Cymbalta, do you suffer from epilepsy?
If so, do you think it's related to Cymbalta?

FishingBrain, anything on that in your research?

[justsayno]

Hi Gail

 

Far as I am aware No. In 28 years I've never had any seizures until I began taking Cymbalta. 

 

I mean .. it maybe the case that Epilepsy was always there and Cymbalta brought it out OR it could just be down to abrupt withdrawal ... no one knows

 

My neurologist has diagnosed me as ' Probable Epilepsy ' but I'm not sure .... " Professionals " like to label too quickly in my opinion. 

[fishinghat]

With no history (prior to Cymbalta) of seizures I would rule out Epilepsy. I just think this is the side effects of our favorite medicine. Certainly there is a lot of information on Cymbalta causing seizures during use as well as during withdrawal.

[fishinghat]

From my Library

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC3229538/

"Although the risk of seizures with antidepressants is generally very low, the association with overdose is well established [80]. However, the molecular mechanisms by which antidepressants cause seizures have not been clarified. GIRK2 knockout mice exhibit spontaneous seizures and are more susceptible to seizures induced by pentylenetetrazol than wild-type mice [37]. The risk of seizures in overdoses with sertraline, duloxetine, mianserin, and venlafaxine significantly increases [80]–[82], and amoxapine overdose is more likely to cause seizures [83]. "

80. Montgomery SA. Antidepressants and seizures: emphasis on newer agents and clinical implications. Int J Clin Pract. 2005;59:1435–1440. [PubMed]

81. Whyte IM, Dawson AH, Buckley NA. Relative toxicity of venlafaxine and selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors in overdose compared to tricyclic antidepressants. Q J Med. 2003;96:369–374. [PubMed]

82. Isbister GK, Bowe SJ, Dawson A, Whyte IM. Relative toxicity of selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) in overdose. J Toxicol Clin Toxicol. 2004;42:277–285. [PubMed]

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https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4683813/

"Epilepsy is a serious condition which can profoundly affect an individual’s life. While there is some evidence to suggest an association between antidepressant use and epilepsy and seizures it is conflicting and not conclusive. "

"Conclusions
Risk of epilepsy/seizures is significantly increased for all classes of antidepressant. There is a need for individual risk-benefit assessments in patients being considered for antidepressant treatment, especially those with ongoing mild depression or with additional risk factors. Residual confounding and indication bias may influence our results, so confirmation may be required from additional studies."
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https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/16534127

Neurology. 2006 Mar 14;66(5):773-4.
Duloxetine-induced syndrome of inappropriate antidiuretic hormone secretion and seizures.

Maramattom BV1.

"The syndrome of inappropriate antidiuretic hormone secretion (SIADH) and hyponatremia is a well known side effect of older selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) such as paroxetine, sertraline, fluoxetine, citalopram, escitalopram, and fluvoxamine.1,2 The frequency of hyponatremia is around 8 per 1,000 among elderly women receiving fluoxetine.2 Although the second-generation dual blockers, selective serotonin–norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors (SNRIs) such as venlafaxine and duloxetine, are touted to have a wider therapeutic index, hyponatremia is encountered even with venlafaxine. To date, Medline searches do not reveal any reports of hyponatremia associated with duloxetine. We describe a woman who developed severe hyponatremia on exposure to duloxetine and recurrence on inadvertent rechallenge, suggesting the causative relationship of this drug to hyponatremia. "
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http://www.psychforu...topic69139.html
This is a thread about seizures and Cymbalta you might want to check out.
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http://pi.lilly.com/...ta-Medguide.pdf
Under side effects the manufacturer (Eli Lilley) lists seizures as a possibility.
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http://www.ehealthme...mbalta/seizure/
84,701 people reported to have side effects when taking Cymbalta.
Among them, 598 people (0.71%) have Seizure
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[justsayno]

With no history (prior to Cymbalta) of seizures I would rule out Epilepsy. I just think this is the side effects of our favorite medicine. Certainly there is a lot of information on Cymbalta causing seizures during use as well as during withdrawal.

You make a good point there FishingHat

 

My girlfriend and I have been debating for a long time whether or not the seizures are being caused by being on this medication FULL STOP or from withdrawal.

 

Since being on Cymbalta I have had hives every day .. I have to take in total 500 MG a day of Fexofenadine to control this .... Doctors told me straight that it cant be the medication causing it but Eli Lilly clearly state that the medication should be immediately stopped at the first sign of any major adverse skin reaction ... ( If nothing else is deemed to be the cause )  Which in my case , there isn't nothing else.  I've had test after test and this all started shortly after starting Effexor.  Seems to be a reoccurring theme here regarding me and SNRI's ....  

 

It's a proper dilemma.  Is the actual problem being on Cymbalta. If it is than staying on longer / weaning slowly could cause even more seizures .......... OR if it happens to be withdrawal than coming off cold turkey would be detrimental.

 

Bit of a hard one , lol

[gail]

Wow, so this is not unique at all. I saw a few posts from many years ago mentioning this problem also. It got better and lesser as the months went by after they finished Cymbalta.

I also read that it's not only Cymbalta but other antidepressants also. What a mess, we just have to remember that when we opt for an antidepressant, it's because we have reached the end of our rope! We do what has to be done!

Hang on Justsayno, you are not alone to be stuck with this symptom.

[fishinghat]

You are right Gail. Don't you just love antidepressants?  (He said sarcastically)

[justsayno]

Was trying to work it out tonight. Looking for any patterns / similarities etc 

 

Only obvious thing being that both seizures occurred after a dosage drop from 40 to 30 mg. 

Seems plausible at first but according to my diary I managed to be on 30 mg for 11 days before my first seizure ... though on my second seizure , I only managed 3 days ... Does that make sense .. lol  ?

 

I don't know if my theory is right but it seems to me that the reason I lasted longer on 30 on the first one is because I only started taking C a month prior to this which meant my body wasn't fully accustomed to it yet.  It was more tolerant if you like.

 By the time my second seizure occurred , I must of been on 40 mg for a good two months prior. So must of built up a resistance ?

 

I'll tell you what does confuse me though ... I didn't have a seizure when I went from 30 to 20 and 20 to 10

Unless that's because I flew down so quickly and slowed around the 5 mark. This then opened the floodgates .........

 

Oh well , I'll keep going I suppose.  Meantime 0.5 mg  / week  ?

 

 

Thanks for reading

[fishinghat]

If you have stabilized than 0.5 mg/week sounds good. Take your time.

[justsayno]

Hi

 

Couldn't take having this crap in my body no more so got off it 5 days ago and started Citalopram ( Celexa ) I was previously on that before switching over to SNRI's and didn't have any problems so I'm hoping it stays that way from now on ... it's only a low dose ( 10 MG ) ... The future plan is to get off that too if all goes well.

 

Norephedrine should be starting to reuptake naturally now  ... I'm certainly feeling like I used to ( Shit ) so things must be getting back to normal, lol ... That could just be withdrawal though .. it's all still a bit too early to tell at the moment 

 

What's important now though is to keep everything somewhat stable. 

 

Sooo ... Fingers crossed that the hives and seizures subside but life ain't always that simple is it ... lol

 

One last thing . I hope I haven't come across as disrespectful to those who have considerably helped me out by going against what you said .... I just needed to get off this stuff before I went stark crazy

 

Speak soon  

[fishinghat]

JSN

 

No problem. What ever it takes. There is no judgement here.

 

Keep up the good work.

[justsayno]

Hello everyone

 

Sorry for not coming back sooner

 

As you know from previous posts I stopped Cymbalta in the end of March due to me believing that it was the cause of my seizures but unfortunately another happened during the start of October. I  really did think that the third seizure would be the last so having this one has really knocked my confidence. 

Of course the doctors were like real smug about it and pretty much told me well we did try and tell you at the start it wasn't Cymbalta ...

 

I still not convinced though because when I was on Cymbalta the time lapse between each seizure was getting closer and closer but as soon as I stop the medication .. nothing happens for six months. So it's gone - 3 months , 2 months , 6 months    

 

Another thing that's made me suspicious is why after stopping Cymbalta did my hives mysteriously disappear. 

 

I suppose what I want to know if it's even remotely possible that this shit could of still been in my system 6 months later ? Or am I just barking up the wrong tree. 

 

Thanks in advance

 

JSN

[fishinghat]

The problem is not it still being in your system this long. Even with storage in your fat tissue consideration it would essentially be out of your system within 3 months or less. I know the half life is 12 hours and that means that it would be out of your blood system in 3 to 5 days BUT excess Cymbalta is stored in fat tissue and will only slowly leach out over thee next few months, The main factor is that ssri/snri alter the structures of the synapses in the nerves and brain. Those synapses take up to 2 years to recover. That is why ssri/snri withdrawal can last so long. I am going to do a little digging and see what I come up with.

 

I am not surprised by either the seizures or hives.

[justsayno]

The problem is not it still being in your system this long. Even with storage in your fat tissue consideration it would essentially be out of your system within 3 months or less. I know the half life is 12 hours and that means that it would be out of your blood system in 3 to 5 days BUT excess Cymbalta is stored in fat tissue and will only slowly leach out over thee next few months, The main factor is that ssri/snri alter the structures of the synapses in the nerves and brain. Those synapses take up to 2 years to recover. That is why ssri/snri withdrawal can last so long. I am going to do a little digging and see what I come up with.

 

I am not surprised by either the seizures or hives.

Thanks once again FH

 

The whole thing disgusts me though and I don't know who I'm more angry with - Eli Lilly or the pig ignorant doctors and consultants.

 

They completely dismissed what I said about cymbalta and instead just told me that my epilepsy is idiopathic. Load of rubbish. I never had anything like this before starting this medication !   But no , they just stamp my file , stick me on anti convulsants and move me along.

I mean how can I be sure that these new drugs aren't going to cause further damage ? !

[fishinghat]

I found a bunch of info on seizures and Cymbalta and should be ready to post it in the morning, Looks interesting.