20 replies to this topic

[Flossy]

I have found a dr who takes a holistic approach to medicine, he looks outside the box! I'm really struggling withdrawing from cymbalta, I've gone from 180 to 45 in 3 months but am really struggling to adapt to the 45 even though I've been at it for almost 5 weeks. Has anyone else used this? What dosage worked and was it hard then to taper off the 5-HTP afterwards? Would appreciate any help

[FiveNotions]

Flossy, I've tried to find your earlier posts describing what your tapering/weaning technique has been, but didn't have any luck ... would you remind me how you've been doing this?

 

If you're struggling at your current Cymbalta dose level, what about going back up a dose level or two ... to where you last felt stable, then staying there until you don't feel like you're struggling, get stable, and then start bead counting down more slowly?

 

Congrats on finding a doc with a holistic approach, who's willing (and I sure hope competent) to work with the amino acids ... just be very cautious, and research every single thing he/she tells you on your own ... they're powerful, and if not used with great care and caution, can be harmful. Does he know anything about Cymbalta and weaning?

 

As for the 5-HTP specifically, we've had a lot of discussion about it here ... I'll find the links and put them in this thread for you ... there are conflicting views about it ... not only in the research literature, but also among us here on the forum  ...

 

TM favors tryptophan, which doesn't cross the blood-brain barrier, and is thus less potent/dangerous ... I started out using tryptophan, but it "pooped out," so I went to the 5-HTP, which does cross the BBB ... and I believe that it helps a lot ... after considering TM's opinions, I went back to the tryptophan and tried it again for several weeks... I made the decision to return to the 5-HTP ... BUT I only take it in low doses ... no more than 200 mg at bedtime, and 200 in the morning ... I started out at just 50 mg ... and sloooowly worked my way up ... someone else here is, if I recall, having success with just 20 mg doses... (crapalta brain, sorry, can't remember who, hopefully that member will arrive here and confirm or correct me)

 

BUT, to repeat, just remember, it's very powerful stuff, and must be used with great care and caution ... my suggestion would be to talk to your doc about perhaps starting with tryptophan to see if that works ... then, if not, moving to the 5-HTP ...

 

And please do report back here frequently with info on what you learn from your doc and your own research, how you're using it, and how you're responding to it ... we need all the first-hand info on this that we can get, as so many people ask about it ...

 

I'll check for the other threads on this and be right back to put them here ...

[Flossy]

Thanks FN
That's great news for me, I have just bought a business and just cannot cope with the nasty withdrawals as well! Holding me back in a big way! In June I started coming off this horrible drug as it was causing me hyper mania, I was able to tolerate 30mg drops every 2 weeks till I got from 180 to 60! It was harsh but my body adjusted, now it just refuses, I cannot adjust to below 60! I've been bead counting and still cannot adjust! So frustrating and very over it!!! The nausea, diarrhea and sweats are the worst part plus I'm having trouble focusing and am agitated and irritable. I was so so relieved when this dr told me it's like coming off heroin, I thought perhaps this was the "new" non medicated me!!! I know now it is the drug! I'm just so MAD that I cannot get of the s&@t!!! My dr has also suggested very high dose vit C to be help with sweats as I'm a hairdresser and it's just not a good look! I'm on magnesium/calcium, b6, vit C, zinc and gaba all in high dosages! Cannot believe how clear my thoughts are but still stuck on between 60/45 mg of crapalta!!! Unfortunately this dr is away till the 28th nov so I cannot start the 5-HTP till I see him then! He's around a 4 hour drive from my home which is very difficult, but still very worth the effort! Any suggestions of how I can get through till then without the "danger" of starting the 5- HTP unmonitored?

[Flossy]

Ps: I'm in Australia so probably don't have access to some of the supplements available in the US!

[FiveNotions]

Well, you're in about your 4th month of getting of this stuff ... what you're experiencing is actually pretty typical for that point in the process ...

"the sweats" are a very common side effect while on Cymbalta, as well as a very common symptom while getting off of it ... a lot of us here have suffered through this ... dripping wet, cold sweats ... soaked jammies and bed sheets, dripping perspiration during the day ... yep, that's most likely the crapalta ...

But, to help you sort through all this ... the stuck at 60 mg, the sweats, etc...first, a few more questions...

Tell us what your bead counting method is ... how many are you removing at a time, and how often? Also, are you on the brand or the generic crapalta? (They have different numbers of beads) ... how many beads are in your 60 mg capsule? And how long ago did you start bead counting, how long have you been "stuck at 60"?
 
Perhaps there's some adjustments that we could suggest for that part of the process...
 
What dose levels are you at, and how often, for the magnesium/calcium, b6, vit C, zinc and gaba ? How long have you been taking each one of these?

Why are you taking just the B6, rather than a B-complex? Are you taking a multi vitamin and omega 3?

The Gaba is another really powerful amino, and too much of it, taken too often, can cause more problems than it helps ... very important to know how long you've been taking it ... I take it as well, and for a while I was at too high a dose, it caused me to have the sweats ...

[Flossy]

I started in June, I'm on compounded nutrients from my dr and started those in may! They've helped me greatly. I had testing to check my brain nutrients and showed high copper in my body. My free radical copper level was 40 and apparently should be 15, no idea of the measurement system. B6 and zinc in high doses lower copper levels which in turn normalizes seratonin and dopamine levels in the brain. I also tested to have pyrrole disorder, fairly mild though. I haven't started the high dose vitamin C yet but I am on 1000/day which started in may as well. This new dr says very high dose vit c will help with sweats. I only have it throughout the day and not always but hinders me at work a lot. I am not on generic, I haven't been exact with bead counting but am tipping around a quarter of a 60mg tab out and have been doing so for almost 6 weeks, without adjustment. I'm just so loathed to go back up, but perhaps I have to 😔 till I see new dr in nov. I actually took my daughter to him and he gave me some tips in her appointment so I made an app for myself but he's away till late nov. He's extremely passionate and believes in the GAPs philosophy, a little extreme for me but was very interested in the fact that he has had a lot of success in getting people free of anti depressants.

[FiveNotions]

Right there's your problem, Flossy ... you're causing yourself a lot of unnecessary suffering ... you've got to stop the haphazard approach ... "tipping around a quarter of a 60mg tab out and have been doing so for almost 6 weeks, without adjustment" is a recipe for failure ... exact counting ... absolutely exact ... go back up, get stable, and then count out / remove beads according to a sensible plan ... yes, it takes time, but you've got a new business and a daughter to care for ...

Surely your new holistic doc isn't going to approve of the haphazard approach ... why not go back up to the 60 right now, and then stay there until you see the new doc in November ... talk to him about the bead counting method ... and in the meantime, get a plan together ... present the plan to him, and see what he thinks ...

Also, keep reading here ...

What dose Gaba are you taking, and how often?

[Flossy]

Thank you!!! I really needed help with making that decision, I'm tearing up writing this now. You are so right! I'm taking 2x500mg/day! I actually went off them and back on as I didn't think they were doing anything, but now think they are as I'm much calmer. I also take .25 xanax/daily and 5mg of Valium! Have to address this in time! Also take melatonin which has helped greatly with my sleep

[FiveNotions]

whoa ... there's another possible cause of some of your symptoms ... too much Gaba ... it's sometimes called "nature's benzo" ... because it acts on the benzo receptors in the brain, very similar to the way in which valium and Xanax do ... you're taking a very very large dose of the Gaba, even for someone who's not on a benzo ... the Gaba increases the effect of the benzos ... and not necessarily in a good way ..

 

Also, another problem is that you're taking two kinds of benzos ...

 

Back off the Gaba for a while ... if not completely, which I think would be the safest, at least cut the dose in 1/2, better yet 1/4 ...

 

Combining two different benzos isn't a good idea ... why are you taking them both? Does your doc know this? And how long have you been doing this? Do you take them at the same time of day? Is this for anxiety?

 

So, in addition to working out your crapalta bead counting approach, you've got to talk to your doc about the two benzos and the gaba, and get squared away on that issue ...

 

Yikes, girl ... I'm amazed you're functioning at all with that benzos / Gaba combo, added to the crapalta "bead dumping" approach ...

 

You Aussies are a tough bunch !  

[Flossy]

Haha! We are!!! I was put on xnanx by my dr 8.5 years ago for panic and told a few months ago the laws here on prescribing were tightened so I had to switch to Valium as easier to come off than xanax, so dropped from .5 to .25 added a Valium and still sitting and trying to get rid of cymbalta then the benzos! (I know... Very bad practice!!!) but seriously until the fog started to lift when tapering off cymbalta, I just never questioned, I was very trusting and vulnerable! Just did what I was told! I really don't feel the effects of the benzos now, the dose does nothing but prevent withdrawals.... I know!!! VERY bad practice from my dr!!! The gaba is actually helping a lot! I am so angry and agitated at the moment due to cymbalta withdrawal and gaba is calming me a lot

[Flossy]

Haha! We are!!! I was put on xnanx by my dr 8.5 years ago for panic and told a few months ago the laws here on prescribing were tightened so I had to switch to Valium as easier to come off than xanax, so dropped from .5 to .25 added a Valium and still sitting and trying to get rid of cymbalta then the benzos! (I know... Very bad practice!!!) but seriously until the fog started to lift when tapering off cymbalta, I just never questioned, I was very trusting and vulnerable! Just did what I was told! I really don't feel the effects of the benzos now, the dose does nothing but prevent withdrawals.... I know!!! VERY bad practice from my dr!!! The gaba is actually helping a lot! I am so angry and agitated at the moment due to cymbalta withdrawal and gaba is calming me a lot

[FiveNotions]

Ah, I see ... you're switching over from the Xanax to the valium ... valium has a much longer 1/2 life than the Xanax ..... several days (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diazepam) versus about 10 hours (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alprazolam) ....

Well, likely then that the Gaba is helping you get off the Xanax ... I got hooked on that shit years ago, thanks to a doc who never told me that the body gets addicted to it, or that it's effectiveness wears out (max. 4 months on it is recommended) ... he let me have it "as needed" ... I was up to 12-16 mg of it a day ... took me two freaking years to get off of it ...

You've been on it waaay to long ... so, keep trying to reduce it a wee bit, and the Gaba will help the valium make up for the loss of Xanax ... I still think you need to reduce the Gaba, but if not, just be sure you discuss this "trio" ... gaba, Xanax and valium ... with your doc in November ...

You're right to focus on getting off the crapalta first ... and, you'll need to have a benzo (or the gaba) on hand to help deal with the anxiety that often arrives during the weaning process ... then, once you're off the Cymbalta and feeling stable, that'll be the time to switch your focus to getting off the benzo ... which hopefully will soon be just the valium ...

[ZappAlta]

Is Gaba >Gabapentin?

[FiveNotions]

No, they aren't identical, but have similarities ... ....Gabapentin "was initially synthesized to mimic the chemical structure of the neurotransmitter gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA), but is believed to act on different brain receptors" ..... http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Gabapentin

Gaba is an amino acid.... http://en.wikipedia....inobutyric_acid .... available without prescription .... but it's very powerful stuff, even if available OTC ... must be used with extreme caution, and only after a lot of personal research and self-education, and ideally under the supervision of a doc, naturopath, etc...
 
Gabapentin (neurontin)is a prescription only med ... also very powerful, it's an "an anticonvulsant and analgesic drug. It was originally developed to treat epilepsy, and is currently also used to relieve neuropathic pain. It is recommended as a first line agent for the treatment of neuropathic pain arising from diabetic neuropathy, post-herpetic neuralgia, and central neuropathic pain.

Gabapentin is also commonly prescribed for many off-label uses, such as treatment of restless leg syndrome, anxiety disorders,[4][5] insomnia, and bipolar disorder.[4] There are, however, concerns regarding the quality of the trials conducted and evidence for some such uses, especially in the case of its use as a mood stabilizer in bipolar disorder." ...http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Gabapentin

Gabapentin is almost as hard to get off of as Cymbalta ... and has been way over prescribed for off label uses, as has Cymbalta.

[FiveNotions]

Flossy and others who read this thread ... I feel I need to reiterate this ... amino acids ... all of them ... are powerful ... before you even consider using them, you must, absolutely must, do a lot of your own independent research on them, and talk to us here on the forum, as Flossy has done / is doing. We have had members rush off, without thinking or educating themselves or discussing this with us ... and start using aminos ... on member made herself sick as a dog in the spring of this year ... she took huge amounts of one of the aminos ... not only was it totally the wrong amino for what she was hoping to achieve, but the massive amounts could have put her in the hospital.

DO NOT, please, take these things like they are "normal" supplements ... they are far more than the typical supplement ... the ones that cross the blood brain barrier are particularly risky if not used very very carefully.

It's essential to start, if you start after researching and discussion here, at small doses ... and gradually work up ... and stop at the lowest possible dose level that seems to help ... do not start taking more than one at a time ... you must monitor how you feel, and if you're taking more than one, you won't know which one is making you feel which way ...

I forgot to post our other threads on this issue here ... I'll try to do that now.

[FiveNotions]

Warning about Amino Acid Supplements (a thread I posted to several of our forums after the incident with a member misusing/overusing one of the aminos last sprint)
https://www.cymbalta...id-supplements/

Serotonin Boost, Let Down, Then What (great thread, started by ThisMoment, read the entire thread, discussion of 5-htp and tryptophan)
https://www.cymbalta...n-and-then-what

Info on the Blood Brain Barrier (excellent research found/posted/discussed by FishingHat)
https://www.cymbalta...d-brain-barrier

Articles On How Anti-Depressants Effect Gaba (another key FishingHat contribution)
https://www.cymbalta...nts-effect-gaba

About 5-HTP
https://www.cymbalta...971-about-5-htp

[Flossy]

Not a chance I would embark on this without the guidance of the dr I am seeing in late November, waaaay too risky. Seretonin syndrome is a possibility when doing this without being properly monitored. I only just read today of some kind of interaction between 5-HTP and B6 which I am on high doses of. Thanks for your help and great advice, I've taken it and am going to go back up a little to stabilize withdrawals and wait till I see dr. 😊

[FiveNotions]

Bravo, Flossy! Good decisions and good advice!

Would you post that article ... title and link ... here, and maybe start a new thread for it over in the "nutritional support" forum? It would be helpful to a lot of other members and guests ...

[Flossy]

As for the gaba I am on, this has been prescribed for me by my dr and I started on a low dose before increasing! Gaba isn't freely available here and unless you see a dr you cannot just buy over the counter.

[Flossy]

Which article? Haha, not the sharpest tool in the shed at the moment!

[FiveNotions]

Flossy, it's called "crapalta brain" ... we all have it, to once extent or another ...

When you said in your post above "I only just read today of some kind of interaction between 5-HTP and B6 which I am on high doses of" ... I thought you were referring to an article ...

See, I have crapalta brain!