47 replies to this topic

[thismoment]

BB2
Just going off the grid temporarily, but will follow up on Mindfulness.
Take care.

[Carleeta]

Buntbean2.  Thismoment will clearly define how to be mindfulness.  In the meantime, mindfulness is a state of being where you stay in the present, with your senses.  Don't think about tomorrow, or yesterday..just stay in the present.  Soon Thismoment will explain more in detail...Best of luck to you....

[ShadyLady]

Ding, ding, ding, Winner!! Great post, TM...reading it was akin to a dynamic speaker in a room full of people but feeling like they are speaking directly to you & your situation like a mind reader:) Glad you shared as this Crage (my new word!) is rattling my cage big time from the initial withdrawal to the present @ 10 weeks. Thanks, as always, for your 'way with words!' my dearest buddy, Reba

[thismoment]

This post was edited on August 24 @ 1330 ET. I apologize to those who liked the first draft; hopefully you will like this too.

 

 

Mindfulness and C-Rage

 

Rage is a mind state. As with other mind states, we are participants and agents within that state. Therefore, what we do inside that state influences its outcome, and it affects the character of subsequent rage events. Mind states become stronger by repetition, so when we practice rage we become good at it-- so good that rage becomes a default mind state: something triggers us and we will always fly into a rage. 

 

Mindfulness is a mind state too. To be mindful is to be conscious, aware, and awake-- to be present. But how do we get to this mind state, and how do we make Mindfulness the default mind state? And how can Mindfulness stop rage? Mindfulness, like all mind states is learned. You learn it in a classroom, in therapy, or from books and CDs. Then it's practiced until it too becomes a default mind state, and eventually it becomes the foundation mind state-- the overriding mind state-- that supports and influences all others.

 

Mindfulness suggests we accept things we can't alter. It says don't judge, as judging leads to engagement and engagement leads to escalation (within our own minds, and in relations with other people). Mindfulness suggests we pay attention to self-talk because self-talk affects mind state-- therefore, change "I'm stupid." (a fused thought that you can't fix-- it's locked in) to "Sometimes I don't understand things as quickly as I'd like." (a defused thought that you can work with). Also, we don't resist thoughts that appear in consciousness; they're just thoughts.

 

Rage is learned. Of course the emotion is innate, but the drama that follows is learned and reinforced by many rehearsals.  Venting rage by punching and kicking a bag and pretend-killing is a form of practicing rage, so there are better strategies for releasing energy.

 

Mindfulness and C-Rage-- There is a small window of opportunity at the first rise of rage where the condition is threshold, and not fully-launched. This is where rage might be defused. Mindfulness gives us some options to alter the mind state, a toolbox of sorts. We can defuse the emotional volcano-- make it a puff of smoke rather than a catastrophic pyrotechnical blow-out! With practice, mind states are altered.

 

Road Rage Example

 

Somebody changes lanes quickly and cuts you off; there's no serious danger, but you have to brake. You fly into a rage! You honk and drive up behind the other car and tailgate for a while. Then you speed up beside the offender and flip him the bird, roll down the window and scream, "Hey asshole where did you learn to drive!!??" Then you zoom ahead and cut him off and shout, "How do you like that, asshole??!!" Your five-year-old son strapped in the back seat has just learned several valuable lessons that he will use on the road in a few short years, and then he will pass it on to his son.

 

Back up. What if you recognize the car? What if this car belongs to the family down the street and you know they just lost their 5-year-old little girl to cancer? Would you judge them the same? Would you engage and escalate the situation? You might say, "Oh dear. Look son, there's the mom from down the street who just lost her little girl. Let's give her some room." Everything changes!

 

Somebody cuts you off and you say, "Look son, that driver is having a bad day. Let's give him some room." Everything changes, especially your son's future. That's where Mindfulness begins-- non-judgement.

[TryinginFL]

TM, out of likes again, but thank you so much for posting.  It has taken this long for my brain to actually concentrate long enough to understand what you said here.  I appreciate your taking the time to do so, as this is what I feel I am sadly lacking at this point.

 

I purchased the book Full Catastrophe Living by Jon Kabat-Zinn, which was recommended some months back, but could not bring my mind to a state of cohesiveness to even think about reading it at that time.  I now feel together enough to begin and know that it will be of great help.  I am looking forward to improving my addled brain!   (Apparently it has been working hard to improve and heal, in spite of me...)

 

Thank you again, TM - your posts have been so helpful to all of us.  I always look forward to hearing from you!

 

I wish nothing but the best for you - you are a wonderful, caring soul.

 

Liz

[gail]

TM, once again, I applaud your explanation about mindfulness!

Thank you, Kabat Zinn number two! You are number one for me today!

[buntbean2]

All I can say is WOW!!  You know your stuff.  I'm printing this out to try and wrap my mush of a mind around it.  I'm afraid I'll be needing some time to digest all of that.  I've actually never heard of 'Mindfullness' before.  Right now it seems to sum up as "turning the other cheek", and "unless you've walked in the other guys shoes you don't know what they're going thru".  Sounds so easy on paper but I'm not normally a confrontational person.  I will get angry but usually only when the situation calls for it.  Right now I truly know I'm not right in the head.  My emotions are heightened and after being on the Cymbalta for 9+ years, I'm afraid that this IS the new me.  I was even questioning this morning if I really should have gone off it.  Maybe I was a more controlled/easy going person while on it.  That's my fear for today anyway.  This morning I was so down.  I really wanted to be alone and crawl in a dark hole somewhere.  I HAD to go to a church picnic and although it took awhile, my spirits lifted and I left feeling well.  Problem is I know it wouldn't take much for me to trip right back into that hole.  I just keep trying to repeat to myself some of the positive comments I've heard on here and hope God will heal my brain a bit faster than 6-8 weeks...or more.

[ShadyLady]

bb2;) I have printed out a pile of TM's posts and would carry one around to reflect on as my ADDled brain alone, much less off the Crap, can't absorb some of the deep concepts and wisdom he so eloquently & generously shares with us here in never never land!!
Now I have a notebook of 'Reflections of This Moment' that I read daily and try to add some ideas to my discontinuation tool kit...some days are better than others on incorporating them though!

'Craging' is a new emotional response I've never experienced. I am wondering whether having been on anti d's for over 20yrs just stuffed normal anger and rendered emotional passivity or an attitude of 'Whatever' when I should have responded in a healthier manner...that probably makes no sense as I try to express my thoughts from mind to paper:( I think allowing & tolerating verbal/physical abuse for many years is starting to spill out in this Craging of mine, of course, not towards the abuser:...( I decided to get off the CYM when I realized I was unable to file for divorce with the cumulative, debilitating physical/emotional sx's that 10years on the shit left me with...now entering the 11th week the mental clarity is so painful in the ruin I am trying to make some sense of and a plan of "action" to make a better life for the twilight years that remain...I better click 'post' or I'll delete my ramble that I need to look back on later to check my progress. Peace to my forum friends;)

[buntbean2]

Thank you for that CymSik.  I understand what you're saying.  I too wonder if I've lost the ability to cope with normal emotions without the Cymbalta.  When I 1st got sick almost 10 years ago I was dead against an anti-depressant.  I knew I was depressed because of my extreme pain and if that could just be lessened I'd be happier.  Problem is the doctors didn't know what was wrong and labeled me as having psychosomatic pain.  Within 3 months my pain drove me into such a deep depression and hopelessness that I was ready to take my life.  I was hospitalized, and at that point, didn't care what they put me on.  I really believed I'd die soon.   I ended up on so many drugs (in my extremely sensitive system) that I had to be kept in a semi-comatose state just so they could pump all that crap into me without my body reacting violently against it.  Over the past 4 or 5 years I've cleared out almost all my meds.  I decided that I needed to figure out what was really working and what I could do without.  I was warned that going off the Cymbalta would worsen my nerve pain so I was afraid and left this until last.  I've even gone off methadone (which was horrid) but the withdrawl symptoms were all physical for me.  It's this mental stuff that scares me more than anything.  I'm so happy to be off of it but I'm afraid it may have literally changed my brain for good.  This person I am now is not the person I was before.  I had loads of patience (taught in a high school with special needs students).  I rarely had angry outbursts.  I was happy, outgoing.  I've always suffered with some anxiety (even as a young child) but not like this.

[Sytske]

High time for me to check in again. I have tried before to post, but they disappear all the time. I am now off completely 17 days and I am doing very well. Better than ever on C. My mind is calm, I am a lot nicer and softer to ppl and the kids at work than ever before. I have my emotions back, although I have to get used to them... My soul woke up from a very long winter-sleep, that is the only way to explain it. I have the odd zapp still and my bowels are a bit.... well..... they still work a bit too fast. I am happy. The worst was the first 8 days, and the feeling that it will never end, but then it did end. I am super proud of myself, and I am looking forward to the rest of my life. I use 5 HTP on demand, which is basically never! I never used Benzo's and I am glad I never did too. My friends have been amazing, and I must say getting out and about as much as possible has been great. Especially when feeling like hiding. I work with kids at risk in a township here and I am so happy to finally be able to give the kids my real heart, not a drugged-up version of it. BuntBean2 you will be fine, pinky-swear, just live, don't over analyse.... MWAH

Attached Files

•  17 days off now.doc   22.5KB   9 downloads

[fishinghat]

Congrats Sytske. I do believe that is one of the easiest Cymbalta withdrawals I have seen on this site. God Bless and good luck on your work with the at risk kids.

[ShadyLady]

Fantastic Sytske!! You are the gold standard having escaped a dreadful withdrawal:). You should create a new Topic '18 days & Wonderful!' May you continue the blessed life and the continued success with the kids!

[TryinginFL]

Sytske...

 

Congratulations on your unheard of fantastic quitting of the poison!!

 

I wish you all the best as you continue on with your wonderful life!

 

Liz

[tria]

TM - One of the best explanations of mindfulness that I've read!  Thanks for posting it!

[buntbean2]

Awesome news Sytske!  I thought tapering was pretty easy.  Some dizziness, nausea but nothing compared to the methadone.  I am once again reminded that we're all different and our bodies respond very differently.  As of Friday I'll be 3 weeks off.  My emotions have been a bit more stable the past few days but I have forced myself to take breaks and run off to a lake for a swim or putter about in my garden.  My life will be changing back to the pre-summer schedule and I'm alittle nervous about being alone more.  I actually enjoy the peace and quiet but change is always difficult for me.  I also get overwhelmed easily and my to do list is crazy long right now.  Sadly, I'm a perfectionist (raised by two perfectionists) and it causes me to be very hard on myself.  I find that I can go from being fine to a complete anxious mess in seconds.  Trying to figure out anything even slightly complex puts me into a tailspin (and my daughter starts Algebra this year).  The other issue I have is sleeplessness.  On the Cymbalta I was in bed and sleeping by 10 pm and up at 5 am.  Now I'm up until midnight or later and then find myself sleeping in until 7ish.  I feel like I've lost 2 productive AM hours and get disgusted with myself.  Strange that some of you have issues with bathing.  I'm the complete opposite...I take 2-3 showers a day.  My skin burns if I get sweaty and I feel so uncomfortable.  The shower calms me and scrubbing myself clean feels awesome.  Again, we're all different.  Again Sytske, congrats!

[FiveNotions]

Awesome Sytske, just awesome! Fastest / easiest withdrawal/discontinuation I've ever seen reported here! (at least since I arrived, last December) ... yours is a success story that's going to give so many folks who arrive here in the future hope and encouragement!

[thismoment]

Sytske

Wow!

Following a year on Cymbalta, you went from cold turkey to feeling normal in 17 days!! That's unprecedented and miraculous!! You are very fortunate; congratulations!

[BelaLugosisDad]

Awesome Sytske, just awesome! Fastest / easiest withdrawal/discontinuation I've ever seen reported here! (at least since I arrived, last December) ... yours is a success story that's going to give so many folks who arrive here in the future hope and encouragement!

 

Yes, yes and yes. Most of us on this forum are the unlucky ones. There are people who do well.

 

Syske, please could you help us by posting in the future, when you have time, how you progress following getting free from Cymbalta? 

 

We would love to hear from you and use your experience to inspire people who tread this path.This forum sure needs more success stories.

 

Ax