19 replies to this topic

[thismoment]

SSRIs are small molecule chemical structures that are able to enter the brain and the cerebral spinal fluid. These drugs alter what occurs at the synapse-- the connection between two nerves where everything in the brain happens. The SSRI disables the serotonin re-uptake pump, a structure that sucks the serotonin back in to be recycled; nearly 100% of serotonin is recycled.

 

There are 15 known types of serotonin receptors that are grouped into 3 families. The receptors are known as 5-HT receptors, after the chemical name for serotonin, 5-hydroxytryptamine.

 

Initially the receiving nerve in the synapse gets more serotonin and you feel better for a while. But since the drug prevents serotonin from being re-cycled, eventually the serotonin becomes depleted, and you become serotonin-deficient. As receptor sites are being shut down, many of them are damaged and permanently disabled. When the dosage is increased, some relief is realized but that too is temporary, and more damage is being done at the higher dosage.

 

This physical alteration of the brain is troubling to say the least.

 

After a while there are fewer receptor sites, serotonin is depleted, and since serotonin can only be produced from an appropriate diet, these drugs all "poop-out"; the dosage needs to be continually raised. The only way to elevate serotonin levels in the brain is to consume food (or supplements) that contain tryptophan, which is an amino acid (a protein) that is necessary for the production of serotonin.

 

We must acknowledge that this bizarre antidepressant society of which we are part is much too recent to propose a prognosis that is meaningful. A vast landscape strewn with tortured, twitching and lurching bodies is probably a vision of the future that is too pessimistic. But to think everything will go back to normal is wishful thinking. We simply have to make the best of it, be pro-active, and be unrelentingly compassionate toward ourselves and toward all who are struggling to find their way through this mess.

 

Hang in there and just keep talking about it!

[fishinghat]

TM An excellent piece of work. Very clear (as far as our knowledge allows). It will be many many years and a lot of research to clarify this issue. Again, well done.

[AnotherMind]

Excellent post TM. Sobering to say the least.

[gail]

I asked my doc if she believed that the brain could be altered by crapalta, the answer was no way and that 2 weeks after quitting that all is back as the way it was before taking the crap.


Discontinuation does not exist either!

And the joke goes on and on on how much they know about this crap.

[DoneWithCrap]

Wow! Just wow!.......

[ZappAlta]

Which makes me ask if 5Htp helps anyone

[gail]

Which makes me ask if 5Htp helps anyone

Would like to know that also

[FiveNotions]

Zappa and Gail, yes, 5-HTP seems to help me with anxiety (when taken during the day) and sleep (taken an hour before bed).
---------------------------
[8/15/2014, with apologies for all the CAP letters ... yes, I'm sorta' shouting, cuz I'm upset that I may have given info that could hurt, not help, others who read here  ... ]
 
Note: I'm deleting my original post, as I went into what I now think was way too much detail about my own use of 5-HTP, tryptophan, tyrosine and GABA. For me, using these aminos has been beneficial.
 
However, I've posted before about how strong, and possibly risky, these things are. And TM add a post here about the risks of using 5-HTP (read below).
 
I'm just going to say this ... if you're thinking about using any of these aminos...
 
PLEASE read my warning post from this spring....https://www.cymbalta...cid-supplements
PLEASE research them carefully...
PLEASE talk to us about it first -- which amino, why you want to use it, etc....
PLEASE do not start trying all of them at once, start with just one....
PLEASE do not start at the "recommended" dose on the bottle, start with a small fraction (1/8-1/4) of that amount....
 

ALSO, feel free to PM if you want to ask about how / why I use the aminos ....
 

Edited by FiveNotions, 15 August 2014 - 10:08 AM.

[thismoment]

ZappAlta and Gail

 

Here's a note from a supplement manufacturer:

 

Tryptophan > 5-HTP > Serotonin > Melatonin

Your body controls the first step in this pathway with a feedback loop, so the downstream production of serotonin is tightly controlled.

In effect, the enzyme between Tryptophan and 5-HTP acts as a faucet that turns the downstream production of serotonin “on” and “off.” Serotonin needs to stay within a narrow, healthy range, so controls serve a purpose.

By contrast, when you take a capsule of 5-HTP, you bypass this controlling step, and the 5-HTP converts quickly to serotonin. This can be a good thing when you need a more relaxed mood, but whenever you bypass your own biochemical controls, you should be a bit more careful about following the directions on the label.

 

http://lidtke.com/th...p-a-comparison/

[gail]

Thank you both for your answers, will have to reread this, my mind is in a funk.
Having the worst period , menstruation, ah yes. At 61, but, all is normal, biopsy every six months.

Will be back on this, have been given l tyrosine by the naturopath on friday, but waiting a few days to take it,was given 500mg. No 250 available. Will open the capsule and take half of it out. We know how to do
this , dont we?



,

[FiveNotions]

Gail, yes, do start with a much lower dose of the tyrosine ... it can cause anxiety, because it acts on dopamine. And, don't take it at night, as it can really mess with sleep by making you wired ...

 

And please keep us posted on how you respond to it ... very useful info to add to our "knowledge base" ...

[gail]

Will do FN. You mean lower than 250? I intend to take it only in the morning.

On an empty stomach, right?

[FiveNotions]

250 should be ok to start with ... if it makes you feel "wired" or "weird" you can just reduce the dose for the next day ... everyone reacts differently ... I've read quite a few comments on other sites from users who have the results they want from just 200-250 mg. a day ...

 

I started at 200 mg... and I noticed an effect the first day ... then, after about a week, the effect moderated, and I increased it by another 100 ... the third week I went to 500 ... and stayed there for a while ... then increased by 200 mg increments each week ... I'm staying at the 1000 mg .... won't go any higher ... and, I forgot to mention ... I'm about to try switching to taking it just every 2d or 3d day, as I'd like to see how I do with that approach ...

 

Yes, on an empty stomach ... 30 - 45 min. before eating ....

 

Also, it can increase blood pressure, so keep an eye on that ...

 

And, bear in mind ... if you're not dopamine deficient, tyrosine may not work for you ... either no effect at all, or way too much effect ...

[ZappAlta]

Five and TM   Thank you both for this info-I am forever amazed at how caring and motivating you are plus FH )

[gail]

Thanks Fn, since I am a scary one, I will start at the third of the capsule,around 160 Mg this week.

And see how goes. I don't know if dopamine can be gene related, my dad had Parkinson.

Zappalta, I totally agree on your saying.

[FiveNotions]

Gail, very interesting that your dad had Parkinson's .... research indicates that Parkinson's is connected with a reduction in dopamine production by the brain ...

http://www.ncbi.nlm....lth/PMH0001762/

What you learn/experience from trying the tyrosine is going to be really important for us to know and share with others ....

[gail]

And, bear in mind ... if you're not dopamine deficient, tyrosine may not work for you ... either no effect at all, or way too much effect ...[/quote]



And what would too much effect look like?

A few days should give me an idea?

Starting tomorrow. Thanks Fn.

[FiveNotions]

Well, too much would mean increased anxiety, a sense of agitation, insomnia ... sort of hyper ... you'd know after just a couple of doses .... if you feel at all "odd" just don't take any more until it gets out of your system ... which is less than 12 hours, as it has a very short half-life ...and if that happens, after your system clears, you can just start again at a lower dose ...

 

As an example of what not to do, Wagtail overdosed herself on tyrosine last spring ... I'll see if I can find her posts about what happened and put the link here.... she went overboard and kept taking it even tho' she was having a reaction to the high doses ... if I recall, she started out taking almost 10 grams a day ... because she believed what some idiot at a health food store told her ...

 

your starting dose is miniscule compared to that ... so don't worry, just be watchful ... you've got a solid handle on drugs and dosing, so you'll do fine!

[gail]

Jumped in this morning with 250 mg of tyrosine.

And if this works, I will be so grateful. And will strangle my doctor that said there was not enough proof on tyrosine to work!
Or else, she would have recommended it.

Just a waiting game here.

[FiveNotions]

A cautionary note on 5-HTP (I'll edit my posts upstream as well) ... I apologize for all the bold text, but this is important

 

it's powerful stuff ...do not play around with it!

serotonin syndrome is a risk .... do not use 5-HTP if you're taking any other SSRI or med that increases serotonin!

If you decide to try it, start in tiny doses ... 50 mgs .... 1- 3 x a day ... if it's going to work for you, you should notice at relatively small doses...it's so strong that many folks use just the lowest dose...

Monitor yourself carefully at each dose level ...see how that feels/works for several days ... at the first sign of serotonin syndrome, stop

100-200 mg. (up to 3 x a day) is the recommended dose ....

the MAX dose is 300 mg, up to 3 x a day ... that's right in range of possible serotonin syndrome ....