256 replies to this topic

[FiveNotions]

I got the god-like monicker simply because I yap a lot on here.... Quantity.... Fishinghat on the other hand, has earned his with both *quality* and quantity of posts..... :-)

[fishinghat]

Yea Gail when you said a one to one switch I was thinking 1 gr to 1 gram, but if it was the 1.25 to 22.5 you should be fine. Sorry about the misunderstanding. I must bow to FN on this one. Definitely possible. You may need to chill out for a couple days and get your mojo back. Good luck.

[FiveNotions]

FH and Gail.....help me out here....what did I say that has FH bowing to me for saying it? I didn't even dare try to comment on the benzo equivalents etc that Gail mentioned.....or was this further back in the thread....all I know is that 1 mg of diazepam every 12 hours seems to help me...which is totally weird based on what FH explained to me somewhere here....

I am sooo confused ;-@

[gail]

FN, FH was agreeing with you that it was the cymbalta crap that was responsible for the way I feel! and not the valium that he thought could be responsible for those yucky moments.

[gail]

I got the god-like monicker simply because I yap a lot on here.... Quantity.... Fishinghat on the other hand, has earned his with both *quality* and quantity of posts..... :-)

Love your yapping, you know what you are talking about, I would rephrase the yapping word for I'VE BEEN THERE, SO i KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.

 

Keep on yapping, we need you.

[gail]

Oh what a morning! I cannot beleive that those ugly symptoms are back. Yesterday I mentionned it happening after 4 pm, but, hey, woke up feeling that anxiety, worked through it. I dont know how I managed to go to work.

 

I had that going for the first 3 months, 1 month of relief, and here it is again.

 

I know it is transitory, even knowing that, I want to crawl under a rock at this moment. Took a bit more diazepam, but it is not doing a single thing. I remember days like that when whatever I took to calm this darn anxiety , there was nothing to do but wait it over.

 

Knowing all that, I will wait. Got to say it scares me just the same. Got to watch my mind, my thoughts, my breathing, be aware of body tensions, been practicing this for a month. It is more difficult in such a state of mind.

 

As FH mentionned, chill out and get my mojo back.

[FiveNotions]

Gail, this may have been discussed earlier in this thread or elsewhere, if so, I apologize....

Is there a chance the diazepam isn't enuf to help with the anxiety? Would switching back to a different benzo, or one of the alternatives...like the Clonidine that wagtail tried?

Diazepam does seem to help me....even at a weirdly low dose....I'm an anomaly?

The anxiety is the very worst of the cymbalta "fallout" I think....even worse than the pure nausea, I think, which because it's more physical I can deal with....but anxiety often brings that low level not quite nausea feeling that you and I've talked about here....

The anxiety truly does mess with our minds....it's not real, but we can't control it...it's like when we were kids...remember trying to catch your shadow? Run and run and run....never quite could catch it....trick is to stop running...the anxiety has no power to harm us...it just wants to trick us into running....stand still in your mind, in your self....watch the anxiety like a disinterested third party....

And, allow yourself to try some diff meds to keep it at bay....there is no need to just suffer....

Also, keep talking with us about it....that's key...don't let it trick you into keeping it "secret"...the shadows hate sunlight! ;-)

[gail]

Fivenotions, keeping it secret, yes, you are right,I did not want to bother anyone with this.

 

I do think that diazepam is good for me, better than lorazepam, which did not work after 1 year or daily dosage.

I made the switch so I could taper more gently, since they come in lower dosage.

 

I have already cut a teeny bit, equivalent of .25 lorazepam in 2 weeks.

And I just hate to upper it, like today. I will give myself the time before switching. Just have to accept to take a bit more when needed.

 

And yes, run, run, run. But to nowhere. Tried meditating today, could hardly stand still. This is when I upped the diazepam by 3mg.

 

Cannot understand that 1mg of diazepam helps you, but, my God, this is wonderful. For those who are interested, 1mg of diazepam(valium) equals one tenth of 1mg lorazepam(ativan). As FH mentionned, not enough to put a cat to sleep, maybe not even a rat.

 

I do still think this is a temporary set back.

 

Could be back tomorrow and say that I am feeling much better.

 

My work day is over, feeling not as wired as this morning. I guess this too will pass when the timing is right.

Thanks FN for the invitation to write as much as I need to.

[Wagtail]

Hi Gail , you certainly are walking in my footsteps albeit about a week behind . Your post was me last week , waking on & off through the night with anxiety & finally giving in around 5am & getting up , better than laying there getting worse by the minute.

I tried the Clonidine which did ease the anxiety a lot but I was super sensitive to the normal dose & found it extremely hard to function .
I needed to start @ less than the minimal dose & work up to a regular dose that didn't turn me into a Zombi ....but it certainly stopped the anxiety in it's tracks . Well worth trying !!!.
Last night I was a little emotional after my first visit with my new therapist so before bed I took 1/2 of a 1mg Ativan .
I slept well until my husband woke me @ 5am & I couldn't get back to sleep so here I am sitting on my lounge with a hot cuppa , all rugged up like a baby listening to the howling wind outside & checking in on my friends across the ocean .
I feel good today ( so far ) no anxiety & feeling positive about the future , ( haven't felt that feeling for a while ).
It feels like the residue Cymbalta is weakening in it's fight to control me & trick me into re-instating ... It MIGHT have got the message & given up !,, lol
Whatever the reason , I am going to accept it & enjoy each moment while it lasts . Tomorrow could be a different story & like you Gail , I could be back here siting next to my " friend anxiety " ... Whatever happens I will do whatever it takes to ride it out .
Just for today Gail, take a stronger dose of Valium whatever it takes to break the cycle ...you can go back to your smaller dose tomorrow if necessary.
Thinking of you my dear friend & keep walking the walk & talking the talk ... Try the Clonidine like f/h suggested for me , it does work .
Xx

[FiveNotions]

Wagtail, did your therapist have any suggestions about the anxiety meds...Clonidine, Ativan, etc? Are you thinking you might try the Clonidine again? Have you had a chance to call your doc to tell him how sensitive you are to the Clonidine?

My, aren't I just a little question machine today!

[gail]

Hello Wagtail, what a ride!

 

I thank you for the time you take to answer posts. Again, I would like to rephrase this, so easy in french, but I guess you understand.

 

To take a stronger dose of valium, ah! that is what I did, but not enough. Like you, afraid to be hooked on a higher dose.

 

Clonidine does seem interesting enough, had never heard of it. If worst comes to worst, it will be my next move. But again, I will give myself time.

 

I am very happy to hear that your day was good and anxiety ridden. A rough time you had, you have been in my mind often.

 

Who knows what tomorrow holds?

 

Coming back to clonodine, is that not a medication for high blood pressure, as I read on the web. FH, if you read this, can clonidine be addictive, like benzos? I dont remember what was said about clonidine, please enlighten me on this subject.

Can you take benzos while on it? thank you.

 

And from a Gail to a Gail, let's keep on breathing, slowly, knowing that too will pass. xx

[gail]

Wagtail, did your therapist have any suggestions about the anxiety meds...Clonidine, Ativan, etc? Are you thinking you might try the Clonidine again? Have you had a chance to call your doc to tell him how sensitive you are to the Clonidine?

My, aren't I just a little question machine today!

Of course, I'm sorry Wagtail, have not enquired about this first rendez-vous with your therapist. As FN mentionned, I am interested in what he had to say about all this.

[TryinginFL]

Wagtail....

 

I'm happy that your therapist visit went well!  At this point, I think that talking out the anxiety is the best - it helps so much!!  I think that you will find this to be your saving grace - and may you, Gail and I escape from this horrid state!

 

I'm sure you're already looking forward to your next visit

 

Hugs and prayers,

 

Liz

[fishinghat]

Hi Gail

 

Clonidine is not addictive. It is classified as an alpha antagonist, meaning it stimulates alpha adrenaline receptors.  If it stimulates adrenal receptors how can it help anxiety you may ask. Well I am glad you asked that. The largest collection of alpha receptors are in the brain. As these are stimulated your body decreases the signal to the adrenal gland to produce less adrenaline. This lowers/controls bp as well as anxiety. While it is not considered addictive there is what they call a rebound effect. As you come off the clonidine you have rapid pulse, increased blood pressure and heart pounding. This lasts about 2 or 3 weeks and of course are less noticeable the slower you come off your dose.

 

Yes you can take benzos while on clonidine. Matter of fact that is very common.

[tria]

IBS - you asked about sudden mood changes - YES! I have that all the time.  I will feel relatively ok then just want to cry (or actually start sobbing) for no reason.  Sometimes I yo-yo back and forth several times an hour.  Bizarre.

 

gail - I'm sorry you're going thru a rough time. Try to hang in there and take care of yourself as best you can.  FH gave some great info on the clonidine.  I'll just add one thing.  I started taking it for neuralgia in my face and it helped a lot with that. So, I know it's used for pain also (if that's an issue you're dealing with?).  I think it is used primarily for neuropathic pain but not totally sure.

 

Wagtail - I'm sorry the clonidine didn't work for you but A+ for giving it a try!!  I am glad to hear you had a good day!  Isn't it so nice when you can think clearly and things seem normal?  One day, the good days will start winning out, I just know it!!

[gail]

FH, thank you for this info, well explained.

 

Tria, no, I have no pain, just the mind or brain going haywire at times. Seems as if clonidine may be used for many purposes as I can understand. It's looking good, another option if things do wrong. That is soothing. Where are you at with the discontinuation? meaning since when have you stopped this crap?

 

Am feeling just fine and good this morning. Normal, yeah, still working on issues, but more clearly.

 

If I remember correctly, Wagtail mentionned that clonidine worked for her, even suggested it.

[Wagtail]

Wagtail, did your therapist have any suggestions about the anxiety meds...Clonidine, Ativan, etc? Are you thinking you might try the Clonidine again? Have you had a chance to call your doc to tell him how sensitive you are to the Clonidine?
My, aren't I just a little question machine today!

Hi FN , actually apart from asking what I was taking she didn't go into my medication in any great detail . She wasn't familiar with using Clonidine for anxiety, so maybe in Australia it's not a regular practice.
She seemed comfortable with my routine . Naturally she have me the usual Benzo warnings.
Maybe on my next visit she will go into more detail .
I haven't spoken with my doctor yet but will discuss my intolerance to the Clonidine when I see him next.
Never stop asking questions FNs , it's comforting to know that there's others keeping an eye on things . In our state of mind it would be easy to slip up & make a mistake and someone else might recognize & warn us.
Thanks FN ..xx

[Wagtail]

Not a positive post from me today :-(.
It's 5.30 am & Ive had a dreadful night ...

I had a lovely NORMAL day yesterday & accomplished a lot so a relapse ( if that's what it is ) is not a surprise .
I've spent most of the night thinking if it could be something I ate but the only thing I could think of that could make me feel so bad , was four red sweets .... So suspect that I could be reacting to additives or food coloring .. I had a couple of glasses of organic white wine but I've had it before with no reaction .
It's all physical ... & hit me around 8pm last night after dinner .
Extreme hot flushes combined with nausea & a general feeling of unease. I went to bed hoping I might sleep it off but I was awake most of the night trying to ride the waves .
It even crossed my mind that there might be something else going on & I might be actually be sick from something other than discontinuation .
I'm sipping my ACV concoction hoping it will alleviate the symptoms . Wish me luck !.

[gail]

Hello Wagtail, sorry about your day of incomfort.

 

Just a thought here. Have you been taking hormones for the Menopause, estrogens is what I mean.

Many found relief in this. And I also know that doctors prescribe antidepressant to lower the incomfort. At least here in Canada.

 

Have you not mentionned that clonidine has helped you? perhaps you did, for a day at least. Yes, I saw that post, memory, memory, not all gone yet!

 

As for myself, had a very nice day, never know what to expect from one day to the other. The mystery remains.

 

As FN mentionned, do not hesitate and come here and talk of whatever you are feeling.

 

By the way, what is organic wine? never heard of that either.

 

And maybe you could follow your own suggestions and upper your ativan for today. Dont see any arrogance in this phrase, there is none. Just compassion and love. xx

[FiveNotions]

Wagtail, my own thought is the wine....I'm not sure drinking any alcohol is a good idea....with benzos in your system and/or Clonidine....it doesn't mix well with benzos for sure.... And it doesn't relax us the way we often think it will/might.....

for example, I lost all my taste for alcohol, wine, beer, anything, as soon as I went into withdrawal....although during withdrawal I did on several occasions have a taste for Guinness stout, and had part of a small bottle...that did actually ease some of my stomach troubles....I went right from drinking like a fish to teetotaler .....

since hard withdrawal I have had a bit of Guinness on several occasions.....I can make it through no more than half a bottle....that much tastes good and feels ok...the one time I drank the whole bottle, I felt sick as a dog almost immediately, and had a horrid night with no sleep.....felt like an instant hangover....

[Wagtail]

FN , you could be right about the wine . I too have stopped my regular drinking since ceasing Cymbalta , I was drinking up to a bottle of wine a night while on it.
Now I don't have any, with the exception of a couple of small glasses with dinner on rare occasions.
I researched Organic wine without additives or preservatives , except for their own natural preservative & have enjoyed a couple of glasses without any s/e's .
Last night was the exception , same wine same amount so the jury is still out on whether or not it caused my discomfort .
As far as medication is concerned , I haven't taken anything since I tried the Clonidine & reacted badly to it . That's was approx 4 days ago & I don't take a benzo on a regular basis only as needed my last Ativan was Monday evening 0.25 mg just to take the edge off . I didn't take any last night , I never take any if I have a glass of wine .
I think it was just a good old relapse ...but wow it sucked !. Hot flashes every 10 / 15 minutes , I couldn't keep the covers on my bed ..it crossed my mind that I might be dying !!!!.:-(
Not a good experience @ 7 months but I will ride it out ...
Xxx

[FiveNotions]

Hmmm.....I thought you were taking the Ativan at regular intervals....to keep the anxiety as stable as possible.....ativan's half life is, I think FH said, 12-15 or 16 hours....could that be part of what you felt? Ativan withdrawal? Nausea,hot flashes and insomnia are some of its withdrawal effects.....

[Wagtail]

FN, I replaced Zanax with Ativan & since the 16/06/2014 I have only taken 3 & 1/2 mgs on a needs basis so I'm not sure if Ativan withdrawel was the reason . I'm trying to go off all medication if possible .

The unusual thing that happened and is probably just a coincidence !, is that after my few days of taking the Clonidine my anxiety has been almost non existent ?... Ha ha a miracle maybe .. It's like the Clonidine stopped it in it's track with just 3/4 doses ... I will probably jinx myself now !..:-)

[FiveNotions]

Well wagtail, the "case of the disappearing anxiety" and the brief course of Clonidine is waaaay beyond me...definitely for FH and TM to comment on....

at the moment I'm so pooped from my most recent adventure with the new shrink tht I can't think straight....telling about my withdrawal experience, in about 5 min, to yet another doc who denies it exists, is a sufficient head banger for the day...likely the week....

I'm o longer going to even mention it to docs is my current feeling...unless I can locate one here in DC or even elsewhere who acknowledges it's existence and who I can trust not to blow me off....

Sorry, feeling a bit down and weary right now.....using the "spoon theory" analogy we've talked about on another thread, I'm all out of spoons for today,and may have already borrowed from tomorrow's allotment ;-)

[Wagtail]

Oh FN my dear dear friend , please take care of yourself .. You give so much to everyone else it's time to self give .. Sending you a cyber hug .
Yes we're battered & bruised physically & emotionally & it's exhausting to say the least . So good one day only to be struck down the next can take it's toll on ones mind body & soul .
I felt I had returned to the old me yesterday only to be lounge bound today ...yawnnnn
We will continue to prop each other up until we recover ..:-)) xx

[FiveNotions]

Oh, bless you wagtail, and thank you for cheering me up!

I do believe you've just lent me one of your spoons! :-))

[ittybittysmitty]

Oh no, FiveNotions,

I hope you can find some quiet time for yourself today to rest and pamper yourself...You deserve it!

These shrinks are worth as much as the drugs they push...Sorry to hear he/she wasn't helpful...

Did you previously mention you have chronic pain..? I know all too well. That was the reason for taking Cymbalta...There is a webiste you may be interested in...'butyoudon'tlooksick.org...could be .com? If you do have fibro, i can suggest many avenues of support out there.

Be well and be gentle with yourself.

God bless you today.

[xman]

FH that makes me laugh to hear that I am rare.  I don't understand it myself, but that was the case.

 

Gail, I hesitate to tell you that I am not feeling better. Yet, I keep hoping for a break through. I took two weeks off from work to see if it would help me mend,

 

Getting out of bed is the last thing I want to do in the morning but my mind starts spinning up so staying in bed is not an option. I feed the squirrels, and furry ones,  and take the turtle out to get sun. That is ALL. I have no motivation and try to sit quietly. My head hurts constantly--Ibuprofen helps some... I am really trying to stay positive and yet a feel like I am teetering on the edge. Doing bare minimum in order to keep house going. I try to picture what "being kind to yourself" looks like and can't find the answer.

 

I would tell anyone out there to never ever start the journey on this drug.

 

I am heartened to see hear the positive. That is why I am here with you all. Thanks,

[FiveNotions]

Xman, I'm feeling quite a bit better today, so I'm sending you a couple of my "spoons" for you to use to help you get through your rough day..... ;-)

I'm going to wear out this spoon metaphor....I finally googled and read it last night, and it made a huge impression on me.....

Today I intend to buy a box of plastic spoons at the store and keep them in a mug on the table next to where I sit to use my ipad to read and write here.... A reminder to "mind my spoons" as I make this journey.....

[xman]

FN I thank you greatly and will grateful take the spoons. You have been rock-solid.