123 replies to this topic

[fishinghat]

For those who are new here I went through bead counting and finished cymbalta last Feb. I had another 5 weeks of withdrawal. These symptoms slowly fadded and by week 8 they were totally replaced with 24/7 fear. Imagine the feeling if you were to look up and a bus was about to hit you. That was my level of fear. I tried to hang in there hoping it would fade away. I slept in the corner of my bedroom curled up in the fetal position on some blankets. I would lay there all day. After 4 months I couldn't handle it any more so I went back to ssri. I am currently on zoloft.

 

The zoloft took care of the fear so I decided to come off my ativan. I dropped slowly down to 18% before the fear came back hard.  I have returned to my original dose of ativan.

 

I am currently taking;

Ativan 4 mg/day

Clonidine 0.25 mg/day

Buspar - 30 mg/day

Zoloft -150 mg/day

Atenolol - 25 mg/day

Hydroxyzine - 100 mg/day

 

I am left with constant agitation and some periodic fear. Now I need to determine where to go from here.

 

My options as I see them.....

 

Options

Current Research - Research shows ssri/snri causes damage to the Amygdala and Hippocampus. They also increase glutamate release into interstitial spaces. The Amygdala controls anxiety and memory while the hippocampus controls fear. With the withdrawal from ssri/snri the glutamate causes excitation of these nerves generating fear and anxiety. No recovery of nerves in 1^st month.

This leaves two choices;

I don’t have the above condition or I do have the above condition.

 

IF I have the above condition –

Indications - In 12 years of recordkeeping I never used the word fear until I came off the Cymbalta.

Despite using 4 or 5 other meds over 4 months the fear continued.

It did not subside until I went back on a ssri.

 

Treatment – Research on other nerve damage from drugs indicates a 6 mth to 1 yr period to heal. Some who have suffered from cymbalta withdrawal and did not go back on an ssri/snri took 1 to 2 years for the anxiety/fear to fully abate. Therefore I would probably need to come off all ssri/snri for two full years to get rid of the nerve damage and fear.

 

I would need to use one or more of the following drugs to control the fear while the 2 years pass.

 

                         Max. Dose

Hydroxyzine - 100 mg x 4/day        (Current 100 mg/day)         Half-life – 7 to 14 hours.

Clonidine – 0.6 mg/day                   (Current .25/day)                Half-life – 12 to 16 hrs.

Atenolol – 100 mg/day                   (Current 25 mg/day)            Half-life - 6 to 7 hrs

Clonazepam – 4mg/day                             N/A                           Half-life – 30 to 40 hrs.

 

After 2 years I would need to slowly taper off these drugs to see if the fear still existed.

 

Pro- Avoid possible side effects from ssri/snri, such as liver damage.

Possibly feel better in long run.

 

Con – I may have bad bouts of fear anyway if the nerve damage is permanent. 

           I am nearly 62 and don't look forward to another 2 years facing these problems

 

 

OR I don’t have the above condition –

Stay on ssri/snri as necessary to control my emotions despite the side effects. And go on with my life.

What if Zoloft stops working? Zoloft is notorious for losing its effectiveness with time.

What ssri/snri do I go to?

 

 

I value everyone's opinion on here. I hope you guys can make this decision a little clearer for me . If you have any questions let me know. God bless you all for your help.

[FiveNotions]

Oh, FishingHat, I'm so sorry for what you're suffering and struggling with!

And I am so glad that you are asking us for suggestions and support! You are one of our "rocks of Gibraltar" here ....you're always here to help us....now we have a chance to try to give back to you!

First, I will remind you of what you are always reminding us....be gentle with yourself, dont rush into anything, go in small steps....as you surely are doing....

I'll put on my research librarian hat....nay, my full battle helmet....and see what I can come up with....

I think this is what's called "crowd sourcing" solutions to a problem!

On a personal note, in the worst of my panics, before cymbalta, I felt safest in my bedroom closet....with pillows, a blanket, and my large teddy bear....

[sodone61]

I'm sorry about your situation Fishinghat.  You are in my prayers that you find answers and peace soon. 

 

I'm no scientist so I would never venture advice given the complex situation but I can share my own experience.  I've been on and off different medications for panic/anxiety and chronic pain for 30 years. For my body, when I use an outside source of serotonin and all those other chemicals (or two, or four or ten..lol) and I move/change/discontinue one of them, especially benzos, there would be a rebound of physical, heart attack feeling fear and panic.  I have used a variety of short term meds to reduce time and intensity of the anxiety but it ultimately just took time.   I don't know the nuances of your specific situation but I feel like I'm in a 'damned if I do and damned if I don't' position...  anxiety and depression vs. dependence on meds and side effects.  So I try and get the meds down to the most tolerable minimum.  Then when I stop a certain medication and a side effect subsides, it's probably due to that medication.

I, also, have only temporary relief with SSRIs.  Not even a year before they stop working.  So this is a life altering illness that the medical field is still experimenting with, and we are their guinea pigs. 

 

I initially abandoned myself to my doctors and took everything they suggested but I got over that real quick.  I ended up on 11 medications at one point and I'm a fairly healthy person!  I have a bad hip and depression/anxiety.  That's it!  But I would get a side effect and they would medicate that.. and that's how I ended up on so many meds at one time.  Once the Cymbalta is done, I'm only on two medications (nothing psychotropic - eeek! - cross your fingers it works out ok). 

This is no walk in the park but it's my (our) journey.  Walking it with the utmost of self-honesty, willingness to change and learn has helped me.  I get some relief with meditation, exercise and keeping stress LOW. I'm not very good at ANY of those things but I'm learning. The fear/panic never completely goes away but I'm learning to live with it and accept it.  I'm here for you.  Pam (Seattle)

 

p.s. Cymbalta has been the absolute worst nightmare of any psychotropic medication I've EVER tried.  I was put on it while participating in a research program and it ruined my life.  I felt symptom  relief for a couple months and then I became a hypertensive zombie.  And they're the worst kind!  LOL 

[thismoment]

Dear friend.

Is there a medical facility anywhere that would embrace you and say, "Welcome dear friend, we can help you sort this thing out!"? There needs to be some facilities that deal specifically with recovery from these man-made medications.

I so deeply empathize with your dilemma, and it breaks my heart to say, "I don't know" to the Master- you, who have given so much, so selflessly to so many!

It seems like a daunting issue to sort out, considering the time required, the trial-and-error modifications required, and the unknowable interaction between the medications. Surely some medical people should be able to provide you a protocol to move forward, or at least answer some questions.

If the fear issue could be isolated and held at bay by a dedicated medication, perhaps the rest of the equation would fall into a manageable sequence.

Take care.

[fishinghat]

"On a personal note, in the worst of my panics, before cymbalta, I felt safest in my bedroom closet....with pillows, a blanket, and my large teddy bear....  "  Hey FN, I understand that!!! Except as a 6' 4" tall 270 lb man it was a little embaressing. Take your time. I appreciate yoour efforts.

[fishinghat]

Sodone, I can identify for sure with your life except all the ssri I have been on have worked welll in controlling my anxiety (except prozac). I would say cymbalta was the best. I was about at 90% until the pssd hit. I would go back to them permanently if it wasn't for the many long term things they can do to you. The problem is benzos aren't any better.

[fishinghat]

TM, I am blessed with two fine physicians, my psych and PCP. I am going to see them both in the next few weeks. The problem is the new research that has well illustrated the damaged caused by ssri has not left the medical world with a resolution. As you well know ThisMoment, nerves do not heal fast, in fact slowly if at all. It is interesting to note that this research on the damage to our brain was started by people writing and complaining to the FDA. Several hundred who took the medicine for a few months for neuropathic pain, arthritis, back pain, etc and had NO history of ANY pyschiatric problems were left with debilitating pyschological issues when the medicine did not control the pain and the ssri was stopped.  There has now been 5 research papers that have documented this damage but leaves us with the question...How do you heal a damaged nerve?

[fishinghat]

sodone, I have good coping skills that have served me well until now and I also live in relative isolation (i like it that way anyway lol) to keep the stress low. I also exercise daily and am in fairly good physical shape for an old fart. But my coping skills don't do much for this fear.

 

Thank you for caring and the best to you.

[fishinghat]

TM - You know I have been rereading your post and you really hit on a key. Current treatment centers focus on removing all meds, cold turkey from there patients and then wait until symptoms are stable and begin treating. This is a horrid approach. The patient suffers tremendous withdrawal. Then the trial and error for coming up with a treatment. My old psychiatrist actually was the Chief of Staff at our local hospital detox. She said to NEVER use the detox facility. It is just to hard on the patient. She quite and went to private care because she just couldn't handle it anymore!!!

 

I guess my basic choice here is just go back on a strong ssri like paxil or effexor and just get this overwith and put up with any side effcts OR go on some of those meds I listed, including the benzo, and HOPE it works til I see IF my brain heals. There are some big maybes on that second choice.....Will those meds control my fear withouy an ssri and will my brain heal in a reasonable amount of time? I don't think anyone has the answers to those questions for sure. Thanks so much for replying. I have a lot of respect for so many on this site and especially you and FN.

[FiveNotions]

Hey there, FH....I'm still plowing through the research....I made a lot of progress, and I think I'm coming up with some thoughts worth sharing...one of them is along the lines of what TM said about isolating the fear issue....I was working on this steadily until a friend of mine arrived to watch a movie with me...we're finishing up The Lord of the Rings trilogy...and that pretty much blew out my eyes for the rest of the evening....lest I bring on the optic neuritis and all the accompanying "delights" I need to stop using the eyeballs and get some rest....

I'll do my best to have something worth posting sometime tomorrow....

WRT my bedroom "panic closet"....you're right...no way it'd fit you...or vice versa....you're more a "walk-in closet" size..... :-D

[FiveNotions]

Ok, I can't get to sleep because I'm still mulling this over....I've got a hunch, and need a bunch of info to follow it through....

Here are some questions....the answers may be in your previous posts....if so, I apologize....I also apologize for peppering you with so many questions...... ;-)

Also, if you'd rather send this info to me in a PM, please do....

When did you first start taking cymbalta, for what condition(s), what was your starting dose, and what was the ending dose? Why did you decide to get off it?

What other meds, in addition to Ativan, were you taking while you were on cymbalta?

Do I understand correctly that the cymbalta/Ativan combo worked well?

After the cymbalta, what other ssri's and/ or snri's did you try before settling on Zoloft? You've mentioned Prozac, but any others?

Why didn't the others work? Did you have adverse reactions to any of them?

When did you begin taking each of the other meds you're currently taking....in what chronological order? And for what conditions? (I think I can guess, but I don't want to just guess.) Have the doses changed over time?

In addition to your current meds, what vitamins and supplements are you taking?

What's your current diet...a typical day's food, for example?

Whew....that should keep you busy!

[fishinghat]

Started taking Cymbalta around 2008 or 9 for GAD, anxiety. I took 60 mg/day the whole time. I was told to get off because I had developed a failure in my testosterone (65 micrograms/decaliter when normal is 200 to 500. All sexual functions came to a dead stop. I was taken off the Cymbalta for 3 months to see if testosterone and function would return (usually they do to some extent. Mine did not so I was officially diagnosed with PSSD (post ssri sexual dysfunction).

 

 

I am currently taking;

Ativan 4 mg/day

Clonidine 0.25 mg/day

Buspar - 30 mg/day

Zoloft -150 mg/day

Atenolol - 25 mg/day

Hydroxyzine - 100 mg/day

 

I tried Lexapro and had some success with it but the dr pulled me from it when the fda said it was linked to severe cardiac arythmias in older people. Darn that old age. I then went to 10 mg Prozac which had no effect on me.

 

When I was on Cymbalta I was not taking Ativan of any benzo and the Cymbalta did very well. In addition to the Cymbalta I was taking buspar, clonidine, and atenolol. The sexual reaction to Cymbalta was the only reaction I have had to ssri/snri. I have also been on (successfully) Paxil, Effexor and of course Lexapro.

 

Atenolol first, clonidine second, Paxil, then buspar. And many other meds inbetween!!! All were taken for anxiety which was diagnosed as a "chronic adrenergic state".

 

The only supplements are 300 mg magnesium/day and chondroitin/glucosamine for arthritis and a full aspirin because I am a high stroke risk patient (enlarged left atrium).

 

I have severe irritable bowel so about the only thing I can stand is straight bread and boiled meat. How is that for a suck diet?

 

I am going to step out and shop with my wife today but will check back when we get home.

 

Thanks FN

[FiveNotions]

FH,

In addition to the excellent article you posted in another discussion here.... http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23732229

Here are some others I've identified....and am reading...at least, the ones that are full text....do you have access to the full texts of articles, FH? I don't want to have you spend lots of $$$, but if there's something that seems really worth getting, based on the abstract, wld this be possible?

Serotonergic Modulation of Conditioned Fear
http://www.hindawi.c...ca/2012/821549/
by JR Homberg - ‎2012 - ‎Cited by 3 - ‎Related articles
Sep 26, 2012 - The Neural Circuits Underlying Conditioned Fear .... Evidence for differential effects of acute and chronic SSRI treatment on fear conditioning was provided by Burghardt et al. ... Effects of SSRIs on Conditioned Fear Expression ...... and G. J. Quirk, “Fear extinction in rats: implications for human brain

A role for the extended amygdala in the fear-enhancing effects of ...
http://academiccommo.../tp2012137a.pdf
by S Ravinder - ‎2013 - ‎Cited by 6 - ‎Related articles
Jan 15, 2013 - effects of acute selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor ... the role of specific amygdalar circuits in these acute effects of SSRIs. ... the neural substrates underlying this enhancement, we analyzed the ... Acute SSRI treatment, before auditory fear conditioning, ...... chronic treatment: A comparison with tianeptine.

The Role of the Amygdala in Anxiety Disorders - InTech
http://cdn.intechope...fs-wm/41589.pdf
and anxiety-like phenotypes also examine the underlying basis of trait fear or anxiety [e.g. ... long-term relief, and relapse is a common post-treatment outcome [as reviewed by ... fearful faces or conditioned fear paradigms [1], blurring the distinction ...... Attempts to correlate the acute versus sub-chronic effects of SSRIs with ...

[PDF]Neuronal circuits of fear extinction
http://www.brain.mpg...ry_et_al_10.pdf
by C Herry - ‎2010 - ‎Cited by 130 - ‎Related articles
conditioned fear responses as a consequence of non-reinforced presen- tations of a ... substrates and the plasticity mechanisms underlying fear extinction. These include the .... protein synthesis inhibitors is associated with low fear level expression ...... attenuated after chronic treatment with selective serotonin re- uptake.
...

[FiveNotions]

Also, FH, are you open to some suggestions about supps and vitamins to take? Or do these play havoc with the IBS?

[FiveNotions]

Man, this is coincidental...but I've just run across several articles that connect serotonin levels with Irritable bowel syndrome....as in excess/high serotonin....one mentioned a couple of IBS meds that act to reduce serotonin.....which is the opposite of what's needed to treat panic/fear/anxiety..... How long have you had the IBS, Fishinghat? What, if any, meds or supps. are you taking for it? I wonder if the ssri's cld be causing it for you?

http://ibs.about.com.../braingut_2.htm

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18627647

http://www.telegraph...our-health.html

[thismoment]

FH
Have you been assessed for Celiac?

[FiveNotions]

Ativan....increases GABA...GABA can act synergistically with serotonin....
http://www.med.nyu.e...?ChunkIID=21449
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/12416593

Clonidine acts to increase serotonin....
http://medsfacts.com...IN SYNDROME.php

Buspar ( buspirone) acts to increase serotonin...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buspirone

Zoloft (sertraline) acts to increase serotonin...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoloft

Atenolol is a beta blocker....inhibits epinephrine and norepinephrine...there have also been a few reports of it causing serotonin syndrome...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atenolol
http://medsfacts.com...IN SYNDROME.php

Hydroxyzine has a secondary function of increasing serotonin ...
http://www.psycholog...tions-explained

Seems like a heck of a lot of serotonin increase activity meds going into you......Any chance you've got undiagnosed serotonin syndrome?

[gail]

My God, Fivenotions, your writings and findings are blowing off my mind.

 

Your last sentence gave me goosebumps, I said to myself, and what if she has just solved the mystery!

 

You are giving 100% of yourself to help another human being, or many human beings, you are indeed quite a marvelous lady!

 

May God bless you Fivenotions.

[fishinghat]

OK, first set of articles . They are right on point with the other amygdala and hippocampus articles I had posted earlier. The bottom line when they discuss ssris is that they help modulate the seratonin involved and help control the fear.  As defined in those articles I posted earlier, the ssris modify (damage) the condition fear circuitry in the hippocampus so they can bind with receptor site. They also have the same effect on the anxiety circuits in the amygdala. This allows for only ssri/snri to interact with these circuits because the circuits have been altered to fit them.  And as long as I am on them the longer that fear circuitry will be in the modified state. Two of my articles said at least the patient can stay on the ssri/snri the rest of their life to control the fear. I really didn't like that approach!!

[fishinghat]

Also, FH, are you open to some suggestions about supps and vitamins to take? Or do these play havoc with the IBS?

I am open to suggestions but yes most tear my digestive tract up. Heck even food aggravates my IBS.

[fishinghat]

OK, you have hit on one of the problems with having anxiety and IBS. The intestines contain more seratonin than the rest of your body combines BUT WAIT that is right, we have to alter seratonin levels to treat anxiety. Wow Suck!! I have had the IBS since 1997. With the paradox with seratonin one usually uses dicyclomine (generic bentyl) to control the parastalic action of the intestions by controling choline. 

I have been on it since 1997 but it only provides little help. The ssri/snri do help the ibs by lowering the seratonin. I have taken several supplements for the IBS but the only one I remember was peppermint oil. But I certainly would consider other supplements for it. If I dig in my old journals I can find out what else I tried.

[fishinghat]

"Ativan....increases GABA...GABA can act synergistically with serotonin...."

 

True, but does not react with the modified fear circuits. When I developed my severe fear problems one of the first things they tried was up to 10 mg/day of Ativan to control it. Only slight effect. But you talk about sleepy. lol  It was lowered to 4 mg because that did help a little.
 

"Clonidine acts to increase serotonin...."

 

True but it also reacts with the prefrontal cortex of the brain to control adrenaline very effective. This is one of the most beneficial medicines for my anxiety (minimal effect on the fear. As you are well aware the adrenaline gland is one of only two glands in the human body that does NOT have a parasympathetic nerve going to it. Usually the sympathetic nerve stimulates and organ and the parasympathetic decreases activityof the organ and act to balance the organs performance. No such balance exists with hte adrenaline gland. Instead there is a set of neuroreceptors in the prefrontal cortex that senses the amount of adrenaline levels in the blood. If adrenaline levels get to high this center decreases the signal going down the sympathetic nerve to the arenaline gland. Clonidine reacts with this neurorecptor and is perceived as adrenaline, in essence fooling the receptor to think there is adrenaline ther when there is not. Very effective adreanline control.
 

"Buspar ( buspirone) acts to increase serotonin..."

True but very weekly.

 

"Zoloft (sertraline) acts to increase serotonin..."

All ssris increase seratonin during the first two months of use after that they typically reduce seratonin production.

 

"Atenolol is a beta blocker....inhibits epinephrine and norepinephrine...there have also been a few reports of it causing serotonin syndrome..."
True. Again this helps control adrenaline production so it has been very helpful in controling my adrenergic state, esp at the begining of my problems. It also helps to control my cardiac artymias. (I have suffered with paraoxymal atrial tachycardia since i was 13. I also use to have bouts with atrial fibrilation. This medicine is very effective in controling these. There is a very limited risk of it causing seratonin syndrome.

 

"Hydroxyzine has a secondary function of increasing serotonin ..."

Interesting, my literature that came with it says that it decreases adrenaline function in the brain and also lowers seratonin levels in the brain. I know one thing, even the low doses I am taking seem to help a lot and it does NOT have a withdrawal. Yippeee.
 

[fishinghat]

Seratonin syndrome -  I do not have increased heart rate, shivering, sweating, dialated pupils, high blood pressure or a temperature as high as 40 °C (104 °F). The elevated temperatures is one of the most common symptoms and my temp runs 98.0 to 98.4, a little hypothermic. All of my old employees said I was cold blooded. lol

[fishinghat]

_{Other notes I have tried lemon balm and Saint Johns Wart with allergic reactions to both. Tried trazadone and olanzapine on the fear and neither worked. Only the lorazepam and hydroxyzine had any effect, minimal.}

 

_{In years past, before the fear , I have been on seroquel, paxil, effexor, lexapro, clonazepam, Neurontin, xanax, and valium. All did well except the seroquel (gynomastia), xanax and valiun (no effect).}

 

_{That is one reason I was considering going on a cocktail of moderate dose of clonazepam, a higher dose of hydroxyzine, clonidine, and atenolol to control my fear (hopefully) for a two year period and see if my fear circuits would heal. But as long as I am on a ssri the damage will continue.}

[fishinghat]

For IBS the best thing I have found is probiotics. I have also tried aloe. It tastes sooooo bad I would rather have the IBS. I have tried fiber as well with no effect.

[fishinghat]

Story Time

 

For nearly 30 years I worked as an Environmental ans Safety Manager for large companies. During my last 5 years of work was for one company that was having a tough time. My duties included managing the first aide teams, chemical spill teams, and fire brigades as well as managing 5 departments. My response duties covered 4 plants in 3 states. I worked around 85 to 90 hours a week, slept around 3 hours a night due to phone calls and emergencys. Wasn't unusual to get an emergency call at 2 AM and be on an airplane to say California at 3 AM to handle a fire. I renenber one spill where I was there 37 straight hours!! Oh, those were fun days. NOT. I also remeber one stint were I worked 67 straight days. Well that started in 1997 and in 2002 I had a nervous break down. I had just been running on adrenaline for ust to many years.

I filled a Workman's Comp case and in case I lost I filed a disability case non-work related. I eventually lost the workman's comp case because I couldn't show what % of my stress was from work. Therefore not work related. I then went to Civil court for my disability case. I lost it because they determined it was work related.  Don't yoou just love the law?

[FiveNotions]

Oh God, how absolutely awful....and infuriating....I am soooo glad I quit being a lawyer.....I just cldnt stand 95% of my fellow lawyers...nor cld I handle the hours or the stress........and the system itself is so messed up.....yours is a perfect example.....

That job of yours beats anything I experienced...and I thought I'd had it bad....no question it did some serious damage to your health...mental, physical and spiritual.....

Thanks for the response to those articles....

Just to make sure I'm on track here....your goal (ideal) is to get off the ssri's/snri's to give your nervous system time to heal/regenerate....if you are to do this, you need to use a "cocktail" of the other meds you listed in order to control the fear...?

Am I correct then that before the fear issue arrived you were having anxiety and / or panic? And that you are distinguishing the fear as an entirely different type of experience than anxiety and panic?

Also, just to check, in your post at 3:58 pm, you say that the ssri/snri help IBS by lowering serotonin.....but they increase serotonin, which can cause IBS....as well as treat anxiety....isn't that the "serotonin paradox"?

[FiveNotions]

Oh, and another question... (Are you feeling like I've got you on the stand, in a grueling cross-examination, yet? Hehehe)

If the Zoloft / Ativan combo worked ( as you learned when you tried to come off Ativan but had to reinstate), why were the other meds added?

Lord, I wish I still drank...heavily..... ;-)

[Carleeta]

Fishinghat. .It's taken me a while to answer your original post for a few reasons..1) a very close friend of mine has a cousin who is/was aboard the Malaysia Flight 370. (very disturbing issue at the moment), 2. Hand my son (microbiologist) and my nephew (Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine) read your post (the never knew I was on this forum myself for cymbalta) do the medical research as I was attempting my psychological approach..It's been a hairy situation (omitting my friend and her family) with listening to my son's research and opinion and my nephews research and opinion, then adding my physiological research and opinion (all of us searching on the neurological approach).. Once we put it all together, the best we all can agree on is this:

1. Buspar..It's used for GAD, although it shouldn't be prescribed for higher anxiety levels such as panic attacks, and sever anxiety disorder. At times it could lessen seritonin (possibiliy)

2. IBS could be brought on by stress and visa versa.

3. Any of your mentioned meds along with every other med will lose its effect in time and definitely works for or against other meds

you are taking at the same time..

4. The brain and it's functions are much more powerful beyond even science..They don't have all accurate data and maybe never will

because it's an amazing function? Although it has amazing results in curing itself more than what has been proven to this point.

It all comes down to, right where you stand now..The pros and cons..The proof of experimental trials and the arguments against those proofs resulting in more experimental testing..

Therefore, there is no answer...Everything is an opinionated guess...Trial an error...

My take on your post is: This is just what I would do; Definitely get to an expert in neuro psychologist. .Tell him/her of your symptoms
while on these meds (they will want proof of ruling out all medical testing..and you already know this) tell him/her you want off these meds and you need to take care of this 'fear' issue first and foremost.. (i believe you can live with IBS)..work on this area...Come off these meds one at a time while working on the constant fear...If this approach doesn't work you go right back to the meds that do work and just stay on them...There are those reasons why antidepressents/ and or anxiety meds are prescribed for chemical imbalances
which we just can't fix ourselves with diet, exercise, psychological therapy, or supplements..People can sometimes be doing more harm

You, Fishinghat, live with uncertainity..This needs to be addressed! Living in uncertainity causes both physical and mental issues..Uncertainity causes high anxiety and high fears...Once you gain control over your uncertainity, you will be able to make a better decision on what is best for you to handle...This is where I feel you want to be. Sometimes reading all the research available to us won't help us a bit, but just lead us into more contradictory research and still with questions in our minds.. (total confusion, fears, relying on
others for the answer, or even total isolation..

We were a three man team working from three different areas and all we could come up with as commonality was what the four statements above..

Just a thought to leave you with...For peace of mind, don't live in uncertainity!

After having said all this...My prayers and thoughts are definately with you, my friend!

[fishinghat]

OK, one at a time.

 

"Just to make sure I'm on track here....your goal (ideal) is to get off the ssri's/snri's to give your nervous system time to heal/regenerate....if you are to do this, you need to use a "cocktail" of the other meds you listed in order to control the fear...?

Am I correct then that before the fear issue arrived you were having anxiety and / or panic? And that you are distinguishing the fear as an entirely different type of experience than anxiety and panic?"

 

Correct. I looked back at my 12 years of journals and I NEVER described my feelings as fear!! NOT until I came off Cymbalta. Then the fear was terrible until I went back on an ssri (lexapro). These facts really convince me that I have the damage to my conditional fear circuit described in the articles you and I have read. My anxiety over the 12 previous years was always the chronic adrenergic state. Hyped up on adrenaline. Very rare to have a panic attack. I will attach a document on that subject a little later. Basically you live of adrenalin, condition your adrenal gland to produce it and then it just won't turn off!! Common with soldiers who have been under fire for a long stretch of time.
 

 

As far as the ssri/snri and seratonin. Most elevate seratonin during the first 60 days then after that seratonin production drops. This has always puxxled the researchers. If the ssri has that characteristics then why do they help depression and anxiety in most cases.