845 replies to this topic

[Wagtail]

Today I'm battling & confused
. Five months off Cymbalta & feel dreadful today, I thought I was well on my way to recovery ..can anyone tell me if they have found a natural replacement for Zanax please ?...
The past few days I have needed to take 2 mg every day just to stop me from getting panicky & Im scared I will become addicted .

What heading does the awful DREAD feeling come under ?.

I tried to do some gardening but after only 15 mins I was sweating , panting from shortness of breath & feeling nauseous . Good God I am tired of fighting this discontinuation syndrome, if that's what it is .
Up until now I have told myself that it's the Cymbalta trying to make me take it again & that was enough to help me but it's not working anymore .
Maybe I should buy some GABA , if it's available in Australia ..I'm rambling aren't I ?... That's not good ..
Fishinghat ..I need your advice my dear friend !..

[fishinghat]

Wagtail, I am afraid my recommendation would be to see the dr. and get back on a ssri with a longer half life (prozac, zoloft?). You have just been fighting this too long. But only you can make that decision. Do you see any improvement at all the last say 3 weeks?  If you decide to go back on an ssri try a small dose first. It may not take much to deal with this. You have been very patient and strong in dealing with this so long. For that I applaude you.

[xman]

Wagtail you have been a warrior woman! I was sad to see that in the midst of gardening, something that should bring you peace, that you had to stop for whatever reason. I relate to your worry about Xanax, and I too take it. I had only been on a .5 mg dose until the dc of crapalta. It does not make me happy to have to take more of this yet I do what keeps the wagon wheels in place!

 

If you have a good Internal Medicine doctor I would consider making an appt. FSH is a hormone that controls so much of our emotions and can be responsible for fast heart beat and shortness of breath. I am putting this out there as just a thought...In the US it is a routine blood draw to evaluate hormone levels among women at different ages...

 

Feel better!!

[thismoment]

Wagtail

Find that professional and talk talk talk until talking is proven to be NO HELP. Perhaps there are issues you can't identify by yourself, and perhaps these issues can be addressed with more benign meds, without getting back into the antidepressant cycle.

It's difficult for the therapist to extract originating causes once you're enveloped in the medication.

[FiveNotions]

Wagtail, I agree with the others, it's time (past the time) for you to find a good doctor, I think an internal med guy as xman suggests, and a good therapist....you need both med treatment and talking..... you have a constellation of medical issues that need to be sorted out, and you need a good therapist who can act as your ally and advocate.....every single one of us here is in your corner, and we're rooting and praying for you!

I'm re-posting here the list of Australian resources that I sent to you via PM in March.....they include sources for therapist referrals and even a telephone anxiety hotline....

If you aren't able to do the calling/contacting on your own, please consider asking your husband or another close family member to help you.....

Anxiety Panic Hub for people with an Anxiety Disorder
http://www.panicattacks.com.au
The main menu on the upper left margin includes a link to "Telephone Counseling"

Anxiety Treatment Australia
http://www.anxietyau...iety-disorders/
The menu across the top of the page includes links to "Find a Therapist" ; "Treatment"; and "Group Therapy & Workshops"

Reconnexion: treating anxiety, panic, depression, and tranquilizer dependence
http://www.reconnexi....au/Default.asp

ADAVIC Anxiety Disorders Association of Victoria, Inc
http://www.adavic.org.au
"Grass-roots" support, information, and resources to help people manage anxiety and depression, including: archive. Anxiety, stress & worry; Panic Disorder ...

The Panic Room South Australia: Anxiety Assistance Adelaide
http://www.thepanicroomsa.com
Specialised counselling, education and support groups for people experiencing anxiety or panic in Adelaide, South Australia and beyond.

Anxiety Online
https://www.anxietyonline.org.au/
Mental Health Online is funded by the Australian Government Department of Health and Ageing. under the Telephone Counselling, Self Help and Web-Based ...

Australian panic and anxiety disorders associations and foundations -- contact info
http://www.australia.../23/6/artid/414

BlueBoard: Support for anxiety, depression and bipolar disorder ...
https://blueboard.anu.edu.au/
Panic Disorder. Sub-Forums: Living with panic disorder, Taking care of ourselves ... Centre for Mental Health Research - The Australian National University.

[Wagtail]

FiveNotions, fishinghat, Xman, Thismoment ,
Thank you one & all....

Up until now I have been able to convince myself that all I am feeling is due to the withdrawal, I don't know why I can't do that now !.

Last night was my worst for ages, I woke @ midnight feeling panicky & I felt like I had millions of ants under my skin biting me.
I tried telling myself that this was the Cymbalta making a last ditch attempt to make me reinstate but I couldn't convince myself so I took 2 mg Zanax to calm me down . I also worried that I was having a heart attack ...
I desperately need to get my thinking under control & get off the NEGATIVE train to hell .

FiveNotions , I thank you for the links again & will read through them immediately .
A friend has suggested that I try a Ssri that he takes & is happy with , called Cipramil . I will research it & keep it in mind just in case I get desperate .
It will sadden me greatly to go back on any antidepressant but I can't bear feeling like this if I can't see light @ the end of my tunnel.
I NEED TO BE ABLE TO CONVINCE MYSELF THAT THIS IS STILL DISCONTINUATION CAUSING MY MISERY ...

[FiveNotions]

Wagtail, my suggestion is to focus first, top priority, on getting a medical doc...an internist...and then a psychiatrist who can prescribe the psych meds....then find a therapist....also, when you get the med doc, you could ask if they have a working relationship with any psychotherapists....the psycho docs can prescribe the antidepressants, etc....I don't recommend getting the psych meds from an internist or GP....

That suggestion is subject to review by others here...xman? Fishinghat? Carleeta? etc....

Cipramil, generic citalopram, also known by brand name as celexa, is an ssri. I was prescribed it, as celexa, years ago...after Paxil failed to help....it also didn't help,which is when/why my excellent shrink at the time deduced that I might have the more uncommon type of dopamine- deficient depression...she put me on Welbutrin, which acts on dopamine and which worked immediately .... I am still taking it. (OT, my plan is to try getting off of it later this year, after I've logged more time off of cymbalta.)

Cipramil has a long half-life, about 35 hours....unlike cymbalta....and it also is helpful with panic....I've had a couple of friends who responded well to it, got themselves stabilizd, and then were able to come off it with very few difficulties.

Lexipro is a more recent variant of it, I think....and, if I recall, is based on a chemical structure that's the "flip side" or mirror image of the celexa...whatever the heck that means....

Here's the link to the Wikipedia article....I'll see what else I can find, and I'm sure Fishinghat will have something to add once he arrives back from church. :-)

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Citalopram

[FiveNotions]

Wagtail, did you know that there's a depression / anxiety - Lyme disease connection? Maybe you need to find a doc who specializes in Lyme disease?!

Neuropsychiatric presentation of Lyme disease in Australia
http://anp.sagepub.c...2461694.extract

Lyme disease: a neuropsychiatric illness (1994)
http://ajp.psychiatr...rticleID=170646

Are my anxiety and depression due to Lyme disease?
http://www.psycholog...-lyme-disease-0

Panic attacks may be a symptom of Lyme disease
http://www.thehumans...icle.php?aid=28

Depression, the most hazardous of Lyme disease symptoms
http://www.examiner....isease-symptoms

The psychological effects of Lyme disease
http://www.igenex.co...cal_effects.htm

[FiveNotions]

You could contact the association for the names of Lyme disease specialists near you....

Lyme disease association of Australia
http://www.lymedisea...e-in-australia/

[Australian] GP's Lyme disease ban angers sufferers
http://www.theaustra...6-1226796835468

[fishinghat]

Wagtail - FN is right about Citilopram, (Celexa).  I would like to add that Citilopram is NOT recommended for patients over 60 as it can cause extreme cardiac arythmias (irregular heart beats). I don't know if that applies to you Wagtail or not.

[FiveNotions]

Good point on the age thing, FH.....I forget to factor that into everything I ask my docs and research wrt al the various meds....another one that really has age-related issues, for example, is ambien....

[gail]

Funny thing, my brother , 62 years old, was put on celexa 5 weeks ago, and 5 days after starting it ,and I mean 5 days, was feeling just fine, normal state, he says.

 

I could have ******him. But, to be continued.  He is rather obese, but he says he feel so fine and about. His wife,under celexa for the last 10 years, sexually abused, says she could not live without it. She is 64.. What gives?

[FiveNotions]

Who the heck knows, Gail! There's no one rule, no one simple answer...just a million different "factors" and things to be considered....some days I'm interested and fascinated and want to learn all I can....other days, like today, I'm just sick of all the shit and want to be able to walk away from all of it and pretend it never happened.... but, it did happen, I do need to know this stuff, and I'm the only one looking out for my own best interests.... such is life! ;-)

[xman]

Wagtail, I like FiveNotion's suggestion of getting the good internist f/b the other sage advice!

 

We need to see that tail up! And happy!!

[fishinghat]

Funny thing, my brother , 62 years old, was put on celexa 5 weeks ago, and 5 days after starting it ,and I mean 5 days, was feeling just fine, normal state, he says.

 

I could have ******him. But, to be continued.  He is rather obese, but he says he feel so fine and about. His wife,under celexa for the last 10 years, sexually abused, says she could not live without it. She is 64.. What gives?

FDA says don't use above 40 mg/day and recommends 20 mg/day as maximum.

[Lundeliz]

Oh Wagtail,  I'm sorry for your suffering.  I try to convince myself every day that I'm just feeling wd. I'm not

 

doing a good job of it.  I wasn't able to attend any of the family's Easter activities and I'm so sad. But I am just

 

not able.  It just doesn't feel like withdrawal anymore.  I have been in denial about the lyme disease.  I don't

 

want to even let myself think about it.  I have no idea if it is playing any part in how I feel now.  I felt perfectly

 

fine when I started Cymbalta, now I'm in a mess. I hate Cymbalta, but I would even be willing to take it again

 

if I could get my life back, although life was pretty limited while I was on it.  I'm pretty sure it would not work for

 

me anymore.  I'm going to try to see an internist to see if my beta blocker might be the cause of my troubles,

 

I do suspect it.  If that turns up nothing,  I will probably make an appointment with a lyme doctor.  The nearest

 

one  that I know of is 8 hrs away, but if that's what it takes.  Hang in there with me, Wagtail.  We've got to believe

 

we can solve this.  My negative feelings take over too. I'm fighting them so hard, but my brain is in such a fog,

 

Let's fight this Wagtail, one thing at a time till we get our lives back.

[freddiekatt]

I have been trying to wean off cymbalta for a month;  I was only on it for 2 months!

This isn't my first time with the nightmare of coming of an SNRI.  I came off effexor and it took me 4-6 months and was easily the worst time in my life.

 

My symptoms?  Brain zaps.  Brain shivers, headaches, INSOMNIA....so bad...moodiness, sweating or chilled and worst of all....that feeling like I can't focus my eyes, see straight and when I turn my head, my brain and eyes follow at a slower speed.  I can't (or shouldn't) drive because to turn my head to look in my blind spot?  I'm dizzy and feel discombobulated.

 

It is the most hellish drug for me.  I was previously on ciprolex but they changed me for my fibromyalgia.  Whatev.  I had no side effects or issues with ciprolex and no discontinuation issues.  So for me, that was much better.  If I must be on an antidepressant, I'd go back to that one, however, I think I want to give "no drugs" a try!  I never felt they helped that significantly.  I may be wrong,, but I can always start again.

 

I have begun opening the capsules, as I did for effexor.  This whole idea of every other day doesn't fly for me.  I just go into withdrawal every other day.  I can't make sense of it.  So I tried every 36 hours.  Still no good.  I'm taking less and less beads every day but still have to sometimes increase it again just to make it thru the day and not go mental.  I have significant withdrawal still after a month and I'm actually down to 25 beads a day, however experiencing bad withdrawal.  If I have to drive or function, I need to take more.  it's such a rollercoaster and so hard to figure out.  If you could just taper and then be done....that'd be great.  From effexor, I still had the occasional brain zap a 6 months-a year after I got off.  So I expect nothing less from this withdrawal.  I hope in a month or so I can at least function and maybe sleep!!!  

 

For anyone considering any type of antidepressant, please consider 1.  the potential side effects and 2. the withdrawal.  I know others who did have issues coming off ciprolex and other people who had no issues coming off of effexor.  The bottom line, it effects us all individually.

 

For me mindfulness, CBT, relaxation techniques, therapy and a few other tools have helped me more than the drug.  I mean the difference is they are work.  Taking a pill is kinda easy.  This is just for me.  I'm not sure if my seratonin levels are the culprit of my depression, alcoholism and anxiety.  Anywho, it's nice to share.

Thanks for reading my longwinded rant:)

[freddiekatt]

I am not sure I'm in the right catagory.

 

Anyway, the other thing I wanted to say is as it is for my anxiety, caffeine really negatively affects me.  I have to really stay clear.  I drink decaf, but even that small amount of caffeine (although I have like 3 cups:) really impacts the withdrawal and just exacerbates it.

May be something to try for people.

[FiveNotions]

Freddiekatt, welcome! You've come to the right place!

I think you're on the right track for how to get off...removing beads...it just needs a bit of "tweaking" (not "twirking," heheh) to get it right.... I quit cold turkey, so I'm not the best one to explain this....others here know more....but bead count, by removing just several, or even one, bead a day...then, if you need to, hold at that level and stabilize, or even go up a bead or two....it's slow, but gives you control of the process...you seem to be very sensitive to this poison, so slow going is the best going...

Keep us posted, we'll do everything we can to help!

[FrowningnRI]

I started tapering off Cymbalta in March.  I was at the maximum dosage of 120 mg per day.  I started by decreasing my daily dosage by 30mg for a 2 week period.  Then reduced another 30 for another 2 week period. Again reduced 30 for another 2 week period.  Finished the last 30mg last Monday.  Mind you this is the 3rd time I have tried getting off of this drug.  The 1st two times I tried cold turkey and couldn't get past day 3.  I thought that this tapering would work.  Well, guess what, NOT!!

 

I feel like I have the flu!  My body aches and I am sweating profusely, my eyes are so dry, that I am constantly putting in eye drops.  I am having bowel issues.  I am crying for pretty much no reason.  I can't focus. I am having nightmares (when I can actually sleep).  Nausea when I am awake.  Severe pain in my neck, jaw and head. I currently have a referral to yet another pain management center.  I just want to be able to get up in the morning and not feel like I need to stay in bed for a month.

I even checked my medical coverage to see if it will cover a stay in the mental hospital for withdrawal.

I have a husband, a daughter and her son, and 3 of my own sons all living in my house.  I work full time in a stressful job and don't know if I can manage much longer.

 

I don't want to go back on Cymbalta, but I also don't want to feel this terrible.

 

I am going to try to get some sleep now.

Thanks for having this available.

At least now I know that it isn't all in my head!

 

 

 

[Wagtail]

Hi FRI , you poor woman ... I think you have tapered just like I did ...TOOO FAST ... You are in full blown withdrawal & it sucks big time .
Fishinghat or one of the more experienced ANGELS will no doubt log on soon & advise you of the right way to withdraw with minimal side effects ..
Bead counting is the best & proven way to withdraw from CRAPALTA.

You probably should reinstate the 30mgs until you Stabalize enough to start again . You have enough on your hands with such a large household & holding down a full time job as well .
Withdrawing is doable but very hard especially when you go cold turkey or wean so quickly .

It took me 5 months before I had my first good day after stopping Cymbalta & that was most likely because I did the same as you & stopped to fast.
Hang in there you have come to the best place for help & understanding & stay strong .
Also let your family read some of the posts on this site so they know what you are going through & can help you ..

Good Luck my friend .

[fishinghat]

FRI, welcome to the site. As you have already learned that a fast withdrawal can bite you.

 

My suggestion is to go back up 30 mg and stabilize, then use bead counting to finish the withdrawal.Bead counting is where you open the cymbalta capsule each day and remove a few beads, usually 2 or 3. So the first day you remove 3 beads, the next day 6 beads, the next 9 beads etc. This provides for a slow steady withdrawal. If symptoms get too bad you just hold at that dosage for a while until you stabilize. Then start dropping again. Be aware that for most the last few beads give the worse withdrawal. Be prepared to slow down when you get to the very end. Now this is just an example. Some can only remove 1 bead a day and others 7 or 8 beads a day. You will have to play with it a little bit to find what works for you. This doesn't mean you won't have withdrawal but it will be lighter and you will have some control over it.

 

God luck and be sure to keep us posted on how you do. Each person is a little different and gives us insight on helping people now and later.

[GonnaMakeIt]

I'm not sure if this the key for me or not but I just want to put it out there.  I was never one to believe in acupuncture even though so many people have told me what it's done for them.  I decided to give it a try when I got a gift certificate to one of those open acupuncture facilities that gives you the option to choose what you pay which is basically equal to or lower than a copay ($20-$40 or $15 if you're unemployed).  I have had 3 treatments since stopping crapalta (day 16 cold turkey) and I have to say that my withdrawal symptoms are completely bearable.  I still have intermittent bouts of nausea, vertigo and headaches but I'm finding that taking ibuprofen for the headaches actually works whereas before nothing helped.  

 

Today, I took ibuprofen around 7:00 a.m. and the headache is still gone.  I took only 1 Benedryl last night as opposed to 2 for the itching/skin crawling and am having very little itching right now which I believe is more from the Grover's disease than the withdrawal (fingers crossed on all accounts hahahaha).

 

Anyway, these types of acupuncture facilities are all over the country and can be found on this link if anyone is interested in giving it a try:  https://www.pocacoop...earch-by-state/

[xman]

If I had to do it all over again I would count those beads! As tedious as it may sound, it is worth it! The constant headache that had stayed with me for weeks is now, thankfully, gone. I take Ibuprofen for intermittent HAs. I love the idea of acupuncture. When going through the acute phase of this ordeal, I don't know if I would have had the "push" to find a good acupuncturist. Thanks to Gonnamakeit for providing the above list!!

[GonnaMakeIt]

If I had to do it all over again I would count those beads! As tedious as it may sound, it is worth it! The constant headache that had stayed with me for weeks is now, thankfully, gone. I take Ibuprofen for intermittent HAs. I love the idea of acupuncture. When going through the acute phase of this ordeal, I don't know if I would have had the "push" to find a good acupuncturist. Thanks to Gonnamakeit for providing the above list!!

I should have also mentioned that my hubby drove me there because I didn't want to chance driving with the dizziness/blurry vision/vertigo, etc.  He also gave it try when he came with me on Sunday and was amazed how his chronic back/knee/shoulder pain was gone instantly (still gone) and how energetic he felt even the next day.  It may not be for everyone but it's definitely worth giving it a try

[xman]

"Liking" the post by Gonnamakeit! Good point--find a friend, spouse, family member to drive you.

[Jillybean]

 

I have been taking Cymbalta for about 4 years now. Because I don't have insurance coverage, my doctor has been kind enough to supply me with "samples" because they have them in abundance. There have been a few times that I have run out, and gone one, maybe two days without them and was just fine. I currently take Cymbalta for two reasons - one is because I have Fibromyalgia - however, Cymbalta does not seem to help with ANY of the physical problems. Two - I suffer from PMDD and this medication seems to help the most. This past Sunday night I took my last 60 mgs. (I usually take between 90 and 120). I was really busy and kept forgetting to call the doctor to pick up my samples. On Tuesday, I noticed that I wasn't feeling "right". I felt like I was going to vomit, and I was getting the cold sweats. It NEVER occured to me that it could be the Cymbalta. I just thought maybe I was coming down with a bug. When I woke up on Wednesday morning - I still felt "off". Within a few hours - I was sweating SO BAD that my clothes were completely damp - but I was FREEZING!! I actually got into the shower to try and warm up (which is an odd thing to do in hot summer weather!) As soon as I got out, I started to sweat again - literally dripping it onto the floor. I don't know how I figured it out - perhaps it's because it was the ONLY medication that I was out of and not taking - but I figured it HAD to be the Cymbalta. The last time I felt THIS horrible was 5 years ago when I tapered down and quit taking methadone (which I was given for my Fibromyalgia pain - and it didn't work very well). Within a few hours, I had a horrible headache - I was dizzy, weak, shaking, sweating, freezing, nauseated and my heart was pumping a mile a minute. I called my doctors' office and my husband was kind enough to go pick the samples up for me. There is NO WAY I could have gotten in a car and driven at that point - I was actually ready to call 9-1-1 becuase I was so scared and feeling so sick! I couldn't even get off the couch to get a cup of water to take my pills with - that had to be brought over to me - and although I got them down - I was terrified that I might throw them back up before they dissolved. Thankfully, I kept them down, and fell in and out of sleep for about 2 hours. The meds finally kicked in and I felt about 70% better. As I said - I went through withdrawal 5 years ago - and it was HELL. I would not have EVER wished on my worst enemy what I went through. And what happened on Wed was a reminder of that time. But, to have withdrawal symptoms that are EXACTLY the same as going off an opiate or pain med - from an "Antidepressant" REALLY doesn't seem right to me at all! I was terrified and I will absolutely be talking to my doctor about what happened during my next appt.

I am so sorry for your suffering. I too was on this crap x 2 yrs for fibro and have had little relief from those symptoms. It is also used to treat severe depression and severe anxiety w panic. I am still on clonazepam for panic so if cymbalta was to treat that why did I need an added med? Good luck with your Dr. I am in the process of finding a new one since 5/5/2014 she decided I could suffer through this. I was unable to go to her office because I simply couldn't and wouldn't drive that far.

 

I am experiencing all of these. Some more prominant than others.

Side Effects:
Depression worsened
Lethargy
Irritability
Trouble sleeping
Nightmares
Withdrew from friends and family
Rage
Agitation
Spending/shopping out of control
Overall health declined: sick frequently
Weight gain-Dr was adamant my weight gain is not from cymbalta it is suppose to suppress appetite. I barely eat so my weight gain is not from overeating!!!

Suicidal ideation

Memory problems
Concentration problems
Vision problems

Withdrawal Symtpoms:
Nausea
Diarrhea
Headaches
Brain “zaps”
Dizziness
Numb fingers
Flu-like symptoms
Sinus pain
Runny nose
Hot flashes
Rage
Mood Swings
Crying
Suicidal ideation
Cold chills: Shivering accompanied by chest and abdominal muscle tightening
Memory problems
Concentration problems
Nightmares

[lady2882Nancy]

Jillybean

Your symptoms while on Crapalta - by the way I am the one that started that name - sound alot like mine and are symptoms of the onset of a mood disorder. Getting off the Crap didn't make my problems go away even thought I have been off for over a year now and if your Rage, Mood Swings, Crying, Suicidal ideation, Memory problems, and Concentration problems don't get any better I would seek help from a psychiatrist. I did and it was the best thing I ever did for myself.

 

General doctors should not be allowed to prescribe antidepressants for anything.
 

[fishinghat]

Hey Lady Nancy, good to hear from you!!!

[Blackbird]

I took myself off of Cymbalta 3 weeks ago.  Tried to cut down, but with bad side effects.  Decided to just quit after a couple of weeks.  While on it, I could not wake up in the morning.  Took naps all day.  No motivation.  Had a couple of times when I forgot to take it...then the next day, I would over-react to something my boyfriend said.  Would start crying (Guys cannot handle that).  I also had times I would fly off the handle.  This isn't like me!  

Almost immediately after going off, I felt horribly sick...like the flu.  I slept for 2 days.  Brain zaps.  But the worst is that I can't seem to speak.  Talk slow, slurred.  I sound very mentally ill.  Crying and anxious all the time.  Called Life Extention Org.  Ordered Acytl-Cysteine and another brain formula - $200.  Also started taking 5HTP.  This started working immediately. Not too much crying now.  Although broke up with my boyfriend, so I figure some crying is normal.  But before the 5HPT, I was crying over everything, all the time!   The speech thing really worries me, as it hasn't gotten much better.  Saw on another blog, the person went back on 15 beads of Cymbalta, and the speech problem ended.  I don't really want to do this, because it's such a nasty drug!  I've been put on many anti-depressants, and can't handle any of them.