162 replies to this topic

[invalidusername]

I really understand how you must be feeling at the moment LV. You brain will be in a very confused state at the moment and it will also be doing its own guess work that Hat mentioned. It at least knows when something is out of balance because your own chemical release as a result of the changes in the brain will tell it that something is wrong and this is often where doctors get it wrong by giving you yet more drugs to cover these up where sometimes your brain needs to work of these changes (and your reaction to them), The brain is changing every second trying to find and/or maintain some level of homeostasis.

 

Again, it can be a minefield and I really hope that you find some peace soon....

 

IUN

[LeVana]

nearly 7 months after quitting: still no improvement. no hope.

[invalidusername]

My dear LV....

 

I truly understand where you are. I hope that I can give you some faith that it will improve.

 

When I quit Duloxetine, I was put on Escitalopram and soon after Pregablin when I couldn't take the anxiety and panic attacks. This period went on for months much like yourself. But it DOES get better.

 

The way I got out it was that I went back to the last point I found myself better which was just taking Citalopram. I also had a lot of therapy at the same time. 

 

One pych told me that it is not good to keep switching between AD's when on has previously worked - and he was right. I went back on Citalopram that I felt OK with, but it DID take time for my brain to realise what was going on. 

 

It WILL get there - please trust me, You need to see the big picture from month to month, rather than day to day and I am SURE you will see improvement....

 

I am always thinking of you and hoping the very best for you..

 

IUN

[LeVana]

thanks IUN. you're so nice. everyone says it will be better, but i can't imagine it.

i'll get back.

[LeVana]

another question: have you ever heard of "kindling effect"? it could be an explanation to my bad reactions / overstimulation to escitalo, i think.

and maybe it could also be an explanation to IUNs seizures

 

do you suffered from overstimulation f.e. after intake of other medications? analgesics, antibiotics, caffeine or so? apparently that´s always the case...forever as a long term reaction after withdrawal.

[invalidusername]

Hi LV,

 

Thanks for your kind words and I hope your days aren't too bad. 

 

I know about the kindling effect well. I had it really bad when I was coming off alcohol. It is one of the hardest things I have done and I did fail several times and each time I tried again, it just got worse and worse. The same has been known to apply to all sorts of drugs and substances.

 

I can't be sure what bought on the seizures, but the local mental health team treated me like a guinea pig or lab rat, just taking me on and off pills as they thought best. That was a tough year. It is all documented here on the forum and I am so glad that it is so I can see just how bad things can be. So if I feel I am having a really bad day, I sometimes read my old posts and then I don't feel as bad knowing that I got through things far worse.

 

Hang in there my sweet...

 

IUN

[LeVana]

ok and did you suffered from overreaction / kindling to other medications/food after dulox WD?

in another forum i read a lot of people get waves and windows after WD for many years (2, 3, 4!). i'm sooo depressed to suffer for such a long time. i can't do that.i took this shit for 10 years. it will never let me go.

you were so strong getting through this. i'm not for made this :-(

[LeVana]

update: dystonia subsided but side effects of escitalo increased :-/ after taking it, anxiety and panic are through the roof

[fishinghat]

Don't you just love antidepressants?  NOT

[LeVana]

Don't you just love antidepressants? NOT

yes indeed, it's my pleasure 😵‍💫

[LeVana]

my back pain got worse since last month, but i can't understand. when i reduced 2018 the back pain started quickly 1-2 months after reduction and this time it occurs late. means that, i had too much dulox depot??

and why does escitalo work so strong now after 7 months WD ??! is this quite normal? i'm afraid of every morning to take it :-(

will it go on like this forever? feel so exhausted and full of pain

[fishinghat]

With Cymbalta nothing surprises me anymore.

 

 "i had too much dulox depot??"

Sounds logical.

 

"..why does escitalo work so strong now after 7 months WD ??! is this quite normal? i'm afraid of every morning to take it :-("

I assume you mean stronger side effects. After being on an antidepressant for a couple of months side effects often reduce as you body adapts BUT the side effects that exist after those first 2 months often slowly get worse as time proceeds. I am surprised the dr hasn't suggested weaning you off of it if you are that intolerable to it.

 

Not forever LeVana but it ca take some time to work everything out and come up with a solution. Trial and error medicine is a slow process.

[LeVana]

thanks HAT. in the first few months of escitalo i had less side effects and less effects. only now i think it might start working. but i don't understand the whole process :-( makes me sad. yesterday i felt getting psychosis or something after taking it. comparable to MDMA 😵‍💫 it's too strong for me. today i woke up with massive anxiety, which also increased after escitalo. i could give up.

or is it hypersensitivity / kindling? don't know.

2006 it took me 8 weeks to manage side effects of escitalo and today they won't want to disappear. doesn't cross my mind. makes me angry!!

sorry 😔

[fishinghat]

I hate to say this but it may be time to change the escitalo to something else.

[LeVana]

maybe escitalo increases noradrenaline which is too high anyway?!
test result attached.

i thought dulox wd would lead to a leck of NA/DA/SERT...but for me it's the opposite.

Attached Files

•  20240330_170635.jpg   74.62KB   0 downloads

[LeVana]

don't want to switch again. in november i tried to replace escitalo and got suicidal. i was already planning to do it.

in hospital they tried citalo, mirtazapine, opipramol, agomelatine

[fishinghat]

Serotonin on the low side of normal. Not a shock. Probably a small contributor to your issues. 

Glutamate elevated and this would be expected as your body fights to stabilize your neurotransmitters.

GABA fine which I would have expected it on the high side of normal also but no concern.

Adrenaline on the high side of normal and no shocker there. Common during withdrawal. 

Noradrenaline seriously elevated and again no surprise. Obviously, this is the main contributor to your withdrawal. 

Dopamine higher than I would have expected but not a big concern. 

No other issues that concern me.

What I do not understand is why they don't use clonidine. It blocks the production of adrenaline and has been around over 50 years. It is used in dozens of withdrawal scenarios. It is commonly used here. 

 

The change in serotonin is not well understood. Some go sky high and some go very low. Both can cause anxiety or depression. Many researchers have puzzled over this for years. The elevated Nor and adrenaline is classic. 

The mirtazapine, opipramol and agomelatine can be successful but are not the ones with the best history of success.  Citalopram has a long history of bad side effects and is not often used here as a replacement. Most success has been obtained with Prozac, Lexapro or Zoloft. Mirtazapine wasn't too bad a try as some have success with it. 

[LeVana]

thank you for your comments, HAT. i appreciate it!

the doctor doesn't want to prescribe anything else for me...he still thinks it's psychological. i showed him the test result. said nothing.

have a nice easter sunday!

[fishinghat]

You too LeVana.

[invalidusername]

Just catching up here after a bad few days - so apologies for the silence.

 

LV - I really don't understand why these so-called professionals consider these figures to be psychological. Are they simply leaving it at that and not offering anything to tackle the psychological issues they believe it to be? 

 

Where did you get this report done? I wish the NHS would invest in more of such instrumentation rather than playing roulette with the drugs. 

 

When I was in the middle of my adrenal fatigue issues, I just white-knuckled it after the issue I have with the Pregabalin. I just decided to stick with the Citalopram and had to let my brain have the best shot at remaining stable. It may have taken 7 months, but I honestly thought it would have been far worse had I have taken more/different drugs.

[LeVana]

thanks IUN,

i'm so grateful for your support in spite of my daily whining ;-) you both are great!

i bought (180€!!) the test kit online, did it at home and send it back to the laboratory. i just wanted to know if there is anything to discover what could explain dystonia and other (psychological ;-)) symptoms. i thought i suffered from dopa deficiency and was surprised. the official diagnosis doctors gave me (or my WD) is called somatization disorder 🙄

don't want to bring new meds into the circle of WD...would stress my brain much more, i think. hopefully i will get stable.

LV

[invalidusername]

Hi LV...

 

That is a really cheap kit!! It would be cheaper for me to buy in from Germany! But the results are very useful. But they must make so much money on these things.

 

With somatization disorder there would usually be shortness of breath and more pain involved rather than weakness.

 

I think you are right to take things onto your self. When I quit from alcohol, I had such bad dizziness and I could barely wake up in the morning, but after starting doses of Vit B and a high dose of Omega 3 - both were more or less gone. I am still suffering anhedonia and have been taking l-Tyrosine to accelerate the production of neurotransmitters and dopamine, which will certainly be the problem. 

 

It can be really tough some days and I will just want to sit in bed all day as I simply do not have the enthusiasm to do ANYTHING. But I had that before I drunk any alcohol in the evening, so it is just not worth drinking because it will only lengthen the process, and the longer I left it, the harder it would have been. As much as it would be nice to have a few hours relief, I just keep going on...

 

Our brains are such complex organs!!

[LeVana]

my WD became cyclical. one day better, one day worse. yesterday i stayed in bed with terrible dystonia and cried...the whole day. the day before i was able to go for a long walk! it felt incredible! like a little bit of normality. and then yesterday the opposite of deepest depression and anxiety. this constant change is so difficult to bear.

i'm thankful for every hour without anxiety. but i wish it would be longer than one day. no more games like this, please 😒

stay healthy, friends!!

[LeVana]

@IUN do you still suffer from depressive episodes? i mean...as an underlying disease or because of a consequence of alcohol consumption?

[LeVana]

my back pain become so bad!! can't bend over. why does it occur at month 8 of WD?! 2018 i had it after one month of reduction.

[fishinghat]

I wish I had an answer for that. These withdrawal symptoms just pop -up and disappear at will. 

[invalidusername]

@IUN do you still suffer from depressive episodes? i mean...as an underlying disease or because of a consequence of alcohol consumption?

 

Hi LV,

 

I am not going to lie... yes... I suffer from depression as a result of both my life issues and previous drink problems.

 

Life can be horrific at times even for us admins! I don't like to talk about it as we are supposed to be the strong ones offering support, but I am here at almost 5am UK time, unable to sleep and wondering what will happen tomorrow. 

 

Sometimes anti-depressants are not the answer. We need therapy, we need friends around us - anything that will help. 

 

Anti-depressants are a band-aid...a plaster...

 

At the moment, I must be honest in saying that I live from day-to-day. I will always be here to offer support because I now there are so many people out there going through everything that I am going through. 

 

There are people I have replied to feeling suicidal, when I too am feeling suicidal. 

 

We are all in this together. 

 

I need to sleep and hope for a better day tomorrow. I am really not doing at all well at the moment, but I will always be here to give my support and my knowledge to those in need until my dying breath....

 

God Bless you all

 

IUN

[LeVana]

update: tomorrow the 8th month will be over after quitting dulox

unfortunately there isn't much improvement - just little things. less dystonia f.e.
still bad: anxiety, derealization, depersonalization, brain cramps, mood swings, crying spells, hopelessness, depression, tremor, muscle cramps

see you 💗

@IUN: you'll feel better soon...i often think of you and your words

[invalidusername]

Hi LV....

 

Thank you for your kind words - still in the middle of a shit storm which has no end in sight, but I am continuing all the same.

 

I really do hope that you start to see some benefits shortly. 8 months is a long time to endure this sort of thing. The problem is, that when things heal so slowly it is so difficult to see the benefits, if you indeed can see them at all.

 

Things cannot last forever - this is what I keep telling myself...

 

IUN

[LeVana]

i've windows and waves every day. yesterday i could go for a walk, today massive anxiety and crying spells all the time.

i can't accept this situation of constant ups and downs. it takes away my last pieces of hope. i'm afraid of it will never end for next months :-(