162 replies to this topic

[fishinghat]

LaVana, so sorry to hear what you are going through. Itis hard to believe that with all the information out there that they don't believe in withdrawal. Here in the USA there is so many warnings about the dangers of stopping antidepressants, The information sheets that come with the medication are full of FDA warnings on suicide, suicidal ideation and withdrawal effects. That is so sad that they are so narrow minded. 

 

Hang in there. Best wishes and prays. Let us know if there is anything we can do to help.

[invalidusername]

Hi LeVana,

 

Just echoing what Hat so beautifully wrote earlier. I too can't believe that such medical "professionals" can be so narrow minded. It is a very common phenomenon to feel suicidal and have thoughts when you drop quickly from most anti-depressants. You are proof of that being right there!

 

I do hope they are caring for you in the hospital. I will be thinking of you and will look forward to hearing from you when you can.

 

IUN

[LeVana]

thank you so much@ both of you. i'm still im hospital and i don't know how to deal with my withdrawal symptoms. its the worst experience i ever had and i rather be dead than living through this nightmare :-(

[fishinghat]

LeVana, have you asked the dr about trying Hydroxyzine or clonidine for your symptoms. They may not cure it but should definitely help. 

 

I hate to hear what you are going through with those idiot drs. that is unbelievable. Is there anyway you can transfer to another treatment facility?

[invalidusername]

This is awful for you LeVana. I really feel for you.

 

As Hat said, Hydroxyzine or clonidine would really help with the anxiety. Depression is something else and more difficult to treat when you are in withdrawal. But you need to keep reminding yourself that it is your brain recalibrating itself. It is such a difficult time and it is not right that they took you off your dose so quickly.

 

I remember years ago when I realised that I shouldn't be on my meds any more. I was put on them after a near-fatal car accident. But 18 months later, I was fine - life was good. But the doctor told me, and I remember the words vividly, "just like a diabetic needs insulin, someone prone to depression needs anti-depression". 

 

That is the pharma talking. It is utter BS. They are, in most cases, short terms meds. But when I told my doctor that I wanted off, he told me to half the dose that day, half it again the week after, and then stop. Two weeks - having taken them for 10 years. I relapsed obviously and ended up going back onto the same med. I don't want to worry you as you may well come out of this, but you need to be kept well, which is why I understand Hat asking if there is another treatment facility.

 

These times are very important and although you might feel you are a stranger to me, I care for you and don't want you to suffer,

 

IUN

[LeVana]

hello again,

it's been a long time I gave an update. i went through really difficult times. i tried to commit suicide because of the terrible withdrawal symptoms :-(
i stayed in hospital for in total 11 weeks. now i'm at home finally. the symptoms only decreased a little (little!) bit although i stopped in august 2023! i can't believe it lasts so many months.
i still suffer from: anxiety, tinnitus, insomnia, dystonia, agoraphobia.

in hospital they switched me to escitalopram 10mg..since december 2023. they didn't know about clonidine regarding to withdrawal. they always said my symptomes are psychologically and i have to distract myself.
i'm hopeless getting through this nightmare sometimes.

i will get back to you.
wish you the best and a happy 2024 ♥

[fishinghat]

Well, that is a moderate dose of escitalopram but it is sad that they didn't try the clonidine (used on many types of withdrawal) or even hydroxyzine. 

 

Severe withdrawal for 4 months is tough. I went through 6 months before giving up and going on Zoloft. Most successful weans take 1 to 3 years to wean but sometimes that is not an option. 

 

Ot takes 6 to 8 weeks for the escitalopram to fully kick in.

[LeVana]

recently one doctor told me it could last longer to recover because (es)citalopram only occupies 1/3 receptors in comparison to duloxetine. dulox takes what it gets :-/ 7x 5ht, dopamine, adrenaline, histamine, muscarin, mao a+b. and thats why i got so bad dystonia- missing compensation of dopamine.

 

other doctors (the most) don´t want to hear about it. they said even dystonia is caused psychological....but i never had it before.

 

will i ever be able to work again? i´m so hopeless. did zoloft helped to recover more quickly?

[fishinghat]

The first doctor is blowing smoke! Dul effects serotonin and norepinephrine. There is a very tiny effect on a few other neurotransmitters but it is insignificant. Escitalopram effects only serotonin so by switching from Dul to Escit you get some control back on the serotonin but the norepinephrine is still out of control until you body adapts.

 

"The exact cause of dystonia isn't known. But it might involve changes in communication between nerve cells in several regions of the brain. Some forms of dystonia are passed down in families.

Dystonia can also be a symptom of another disease or condition, including:

• Parkinson's disease
• Huntington's disease
• Wilson's disease
• Traumatic brain injury
• Birth injury
• Stroke
• Brain tumor or certain disorders that develop in some people with cancer (paraneoplastic syndromes)
• Oxygen deprivation or carbon monoxide poisoning
• Infections, such as tuberculosis or encephalitis
• Reactions to certain medications or heavy metal poisoning"

www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/dystonia/symptoms-causes/syc-20350480

[invalidusername]

Hey LeVana,

 

I am so sorry to hear your news. This is nothing to take lightly and I am truly sorry to hear that you tried to take your life. It takes one to know one, and I have been there 3 three times before. It is nothing to ignore yet so many people do. You have my deepest sympathy.

 

Regarding the amount of HT receptors relative to other drugs has little relevance based on how much is utilised by different drugs. Once cannot judge how long or how difficult ones withdrawal can be based on this fact alone.

 

Regardless as to whether you will work again, I have been there, and I have been in similar states similar lately. 

 

The brain has the capacity to move to accommodate the changes. Believe me, there WILL be changes albeit it that they will take time.

 

I will be thinking of you, my dear

 

IUN

[LeVana]

hello IUN,

oh thank you for your lovely words i know i have to trust the changing in brain plasticity and adaption, but i miss real improvement.

only two things got better: akathisia and insomnia. most struggle is still anxiety and that´s why its so difficult to leave the house. i loved long walks and hikes...everything no longer possible :-( its so sad looking out of the window to see all these happy people while i´m dealing with shaking, heart racing and fear.

 

last days i got a lot of muscle spasm, muscle pain, deep depression and unfortunately suicidal thoughts again - maybe serotonine withdrawal. and it triggers hopelessness.

 

@fishinghat: i´m sure my dystonia belongs to dulox. i´ll give an update when it got better. looking forward to may, when i reached 9 months of dulox withdrawal surviving. i wish it was already time

 

see you soon!

[fishinghat]

Hang in there LeVana. You can do it!!

[LeVana]

when could you go back to work after dulox withdrawal?

[fishinghat]

It depends on how fast we taper and how severe the symptoms are after your last dose. For people who experience really bad withdrawal i would say 6 months to 2 years. You know there are things you can try to help reduce your withdrawal symptoms. Have you tried any of the recommendations yet?

[LeVana]

i meant going back to work after zero. how was that for you? :-)

i got agomelatine for better sleeping but its´s no longer available. it helped a little bit.

[fishinghat]

"i meant going back to work after zero"

 

I knew that is what you meant. Usually 6 months to 2 years if your withdrawal was really bad.

[invalidusername]

I am self-employed and I was going through hell as I had no way of supporting myself. 

 

I ended up doing what I could when I could and it wasn't easy. There was no sick pay, no support by the state - especially with a severely mentally ill wife who required my care 24/7 who obviously couldn't care for herself, let alone work.

 

It was by God's own intervention that I am still here today.

[LeVana]

sounds like a real struggle. how could you do that? i can't do anything. since switching to escitalopram the anxiety got worse.
you still take it too?

and another question: my memory has become very poor. could this also be withdrawal?

thanks :-)

[invalidusername]

Sorry for delay LeVana....

 

How did I do it?! I very nearly didn't. I have previously tried to take my life on two occasions. But fortunately, my spirituality has shown me that this is simply not the way. If I give up now, I will only have to come back and do it all over again. This earthly life isn't meant to be a holiday for some of us!!

 

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I have found through years of research and practise that there is little difference between religions, which is why Fishing Hat, LDN, AJ, Gail.... all of us have such a wonderful bond.

 

Escitalopram actually made my anxiety worse as well, which is why I went back to Citalopram. A "new" drug does NOT necessarily mean a "better" drug. The longer a drug has been out in the medicinal community, the longer it has been subject to testing. 

 

... and yes... memory will, has, and will always suffer at the point of withdrawal. This is not just you. 

 

Anything that has an impact on your neurochemicals will have you questioning your mind. When I quit a very shameful period of drinking (bought on by the stress of overworking and looking after my wife), I too, had a lot of confusion and memory problems. Please believe me, you are NOT alone in this at all.

 

Please continue to keep in touch - we are here for you,

 

IUN

[LeVana]

ok, that's interesting. i thought i'm becoming stupid or get dementia at the age of 41 ;-) maybe there is still a chance i will recover.

what i wanted to say, i had done a test (urin) --> the result: dopamine and noradrenaline are too high. possibly, it could explain increased anxiety, muscle cramps, tremor and dystonia.

[fishinghat]

 "the result: dopamine and noradrenaline are too high. possibly, it could explain increased anxiety, muscle cramps, tremor and dystonia."

 

Certainly possible. SNRIs control norepinephrine and now with less Cymbalta in your system your body has not adapted yet. Eventually these numbers should decrease with time. 

[invalidusername]

Exactly - your system is playing around with doses to see what works. It will both increase and decrease the neurochemicals - see how you react - and adjust accordingly - hence the "rollercoaster" being a very accurate term.

 

Unfortunately, it takes time for it to come right, but it is inevitable that it will due to neuroplasticity. It is just a question of what Hat likes to say... "time and patience".

 

IUN

[LeVana]

"playing around" and "rollercoaster"...this is what it feels like, exactly!

i noticed during the menstruation cycle, the muscle cramps and dystonia were extreme at the time of ovulation (estrogen does increase neurotransmitters). over and above that i also suffer from estrogen dominance since puberty. that´s why i made this test. let´s see what doctor says about it. he´s still convinced all is psychologically and symptoms of my depression. can´t hear it anymore!   

[fishinghat]

"let´s see what doctor says about it. he´s still convinced all is psychologically and symptoms of my depression. can´t hear it anymore!"

 

I am famous for "firing" doctors who have are idiots. I am afraid I would find a new dr.  What a jerk.

[invalidusername]

I really wish we had to "luxury" of firing doctors here in the UK. There aren't enough doctors to go around, so if you fire one, it is unlikely you will find another. 

 

Last time I went was to accompany my wife for various ailments and the doctor wanted to prescribe a sleeping drug, and her go-to was Zopiclone. I outright refused - seriously addictive and a nightmare to stop - as with any z-drugs. If anything, I will be the one who gets fired!! But I need to stand my ground.

 

I really hope you get somewhere LeVana. It must be driving you crazy that you aren't being taken seriously. I really wish I could help further... :/

 

IUN

[fishinghat]

Man, I just couldn't tolerate that system!!! What a nightmare.

[LeVana]

I really wish we had to "luxury" of firing doctors here in the UK. There aren't enough doctors to go around, so if you fire one, it is unlikely you will find another. 

yeah, here the same. it´s so difficult to find specialists and also to get an appointment - often you have to wait many months (up to one year). so it´s nearly impossible to "fire" the doctor and it wouldn´t impress him. here it is the other way around. doctors can fire YOU. my mother, f.e., missed her appointment, so the doc called her she´s not allowed to come back again. she never found another cardiologist since then.

 

you have no choice. take it or leave it

[invalidusername]

LeVana...

 

I totally understand - 100%.

 

Hat and myself are very much the same in that we will readily admit when we are wrong, but when we KNOW to be right, we will dig our heels in and not let go. 

 

So when I finally got to see a p-doc on the NHS (in the UK), which took best part of a year, I ended up firing him and I have never got help again.

 

Why did I fire him?

 

Because I was having seizures on Duloxetine and tapering back to Citalopram too fast. The p-doc asked me to bring ALL medication I currently had to the meeting. He asked me to hand over the duloxetine. He put it in his drawer and said "Now that is an end to it".

 

What?!

 

Yes... he said that the Duloxetine (Cymbalta) was giving me the seizures and I needed to stop immediately. Despite me telling him he was wrong - showing him the information leaflet that even says that seizures may result if you quit to fast and TWO journal reviewed papers that proved my point - but he wouldn't back down. He took the papers out of my hand and threw them on the floor. 

 

Disgusting and appalling behaviour for a medicinal "professional".

 

I have suffered seizures ever since 2018.

 

I would do time (go to prison) for what he did to me. 

 

So when I say I understand, I MEAN.... I understand. I feel so much for you that you are not listened to. It is SO wrong and I just wish you as the patient had more power over the medic and psych system in your country. 

 

At my worst, I will have seizures once or twice a week - all because of this b@stard p-doc. Given then strength I would pursue this in court, but in the UK, as we are public funded, it is very difficult as the judges are held back by the system. A lot of them are paid off by the government. We need a private system - and it cannot come soon enough so that doctors have to take responsibility for such actions.

 

Sorry for the rant, but I feel so strongly about what people like you are going through. It is not right, and it makes me feel like punching some dry wall - or what caused Hat to punch his own boat!!

 

It isn't right.

 

We understand you LeVana. Stick with us. Rant as much as you like. As advice as much as you like. We are here for you, my dear.

 

IUN

[LeVana]

hello,

it's so sad, nobody believes in withdrawal. doctors, psychologists, family. everybody sais "it's not possile cause of the small dose". i don't want talk about to all any longer.

i'm still suffering and it feels never ending. can't see really improvement after 6 months. anxiety, dystonia, crying spells, agoraphobia don't fade away.
that's why i think it will lasts minimum a year or much longer. i hoped 6 months will give me a "sign" of healing or so. nothing.

sitting here and cry.

what about your seizures@IUN? has it gotten better after your med switching? i was very concernded about your experience with the police.

cu

[fishinghat]

You know Lavena sometimes put minds are deceiving us. I always had more success in tracking how well I was doing by relying on actual numbers than my gut feelings. You might try recording the number of "good" hours you have each day. Each week the number of good hours should be increasing.