563 replies to this topic

[looneytune]

Thanks Fishy......is taking a wee half tab 15mg Mirtazapine (half of a 30mg) more of a hindrance than a help and delaying the healing?  just one half tab when necessary,not daily

 

It sometimes helps me break the cycle of anxiety.....as I lay in bed for an hour it hit me that it is FEAR I am feeling...I'm scared

 

Probably of the symptoms appearing time after time after time...

[LeVana]

same question to me. do you think using other ssri, neuroleptics and so on could slow down the improvement of withdrawal?!
brain has to adapt new medication and withdrawal at the same time, i think :-(

[fishinghat]

Whether it be a ssri, antihistamine, clonidine or anything else you take to reduce withdrawal symptoms it may slow healing some but it also helps reduce the symptoms of withdrawal and therefore reduce the stress caused by those symptoms. Healing will come in time but it is important to get some breaks in the withdrawal symptoms as you can. The less stress then the better you will sleep and REST is the best medicine for healing and getting stability. It is a balancing act for sure.

[LeVana]

mmh okay sounds logical. i´m off since august 2023, then tried re-dosing two weeks (7-10mg) in october 2023, since then off again.

but withdrawal is still horrible - although i´m taking escitalopram since 01.12.23. maybe brain feels overwhelmed .

everyday is surviving.

 

what about you@looney :-)

[looneytune]

...Because I had to taper and stop Cymbalta AND Diazepam at same time I don't know which withdrawal is kicking in at any given time  I just know sometimes I am good and other times I am shit....but having more better times than last year. Stopped Diazepam around 10 weeks ago and currently on 8mg of dreaded Cymbalta

 

since today I have a new attitude/plan it's called.....F*CK IT!!!!! 

 

Hope you are well dear

 

xx

[fishinghat]

LeVana

 

"taking escitalopram since 01.12.23."

 

Escitalopram only takes 6 to 8 weeks to fully kick in so obviously it is not doing you any good. That sucks. Now you will have to go through escitalopram withdrawal when this is all over.

[invalidusername]

Hi John et al...

 

My apologies. I kept my reasons for my absence for the one post as it gets confusing, but the "new" doctor wanted to change my epilepsy med to something else and it made me wild. I suddenly had no control! I lost control and I got called in by the Police. Yes - I was having a seizure and the Police thought I was "drunk and disorderly", even though I was foaming at the mouth and just trying to get back into my car.

 

I spent 12 hours in a jail cell until they finally listened to me and gave me a Breathalyzer test, which... no surprise... showed a negative response. 

 

I was released without conviction, but thrown onto the street (without my shoes!) having not had my ANY of my meds after 24 hours. I was crawling on arms and knees to where I left my car and finally made it home. 

 

I tell you, the British Police service has a lot of answer for and I will be following it up. 

 

I am epileptic NOT drunk, dammit!!!

 

Given that I have claustrophobia, being locked in a cell measuring 3mtr x 5 mtr, I could not take it. I had three seizures under custody. I have not been in a good place. It has taken me a week to get back to a point that I can get by. I am still far from a point to be able to survive and look after a mentally ill wife. I have been relying on friends and family.

 

Please excuse my absence - but please, do yourself a favour and never get involved with the English Policing Service. They are a shame to our country.

 

I will catch up soon

 

IUN  

[looneytune]

Absolute SHOCKER! Hope you are well man and thinking of you

 

x man hug

John

[looneytune]

My wee blips I am having just now could well be the hasty but slow(ish) taper and stop 10 weeks ago of Diazepam rather than the latest 12mg to 8 mg Duloxetine taper?

[fishinghat]

My sympathy IUN. Frustrating, sad, unnecessary and stupid. Push back my friend. It took years of complaining by people who suffered things such as you did that changed things where I live. 

 

The town where I live has just started a new process (a year ago). Anyone that the police come in contact with that claims a mental disorder (anxiety, depression...) or mental disease (ADHD, Autism, Dementia, seizures...) will cause the police to automatically request a psychiatric professional to respond (psychiatrist/psychiatric nurse). This has been well received here and I have heard good things about the process. In addition, starting this year all police cadets will be required to take 100 hours of psychiatric training in order to graduate from the police academy. 

 

Its about time.

[invalidusername]

My wee blips I am having just now could well be the hasty but slow(ish) taper and stop 10 weeks ago of Diazepam rather than the latest 12mg to 8 mg Duloxetine taper?

 

Thanks for your kind words, John. I am at a loss as to what to do, but for now, I will be concentrating on sorting my head out. Glad that you are having just the "wee blips", and you are right, it could very well be the aftermath of the Diazepam as much as it could be the present Dulox taper...

[invalidusername]

My sympathy IUN. Frustrating, sad, unnecessary and stupid. Push back my friend. It took years of complaining by people who suffered things such as you did that changed things where I live. 

 

The town where I live has just started a new process (a year ago). Anyone that the police come in contact with that claims a mental disorder (anxiety, depression...) or mental disease (ADHD, Autism, Dementia, seizures...) will cause the police to automatically request a psychiatric professional to respond (psychiatrist/psychiatric nurse). This has been well received here and I have heard good things about the process. In addition, starting this year all police cadets will be required to take 100 hours of psychiatric training in order to graduate from the police academy. 

 

Its about time.

 

Thanks for your support Hat. It really has been horrific.

 

What you have got going on in your home is exactly what is needed, and it shouldn't take so much action to get something like this into the training - it should be mandatory. I will be requesting the body worn camera footage. I even vaguely recall a stranger nearby by shouting at the Police telling them I was having a seizure, but the Police telling her to back away. 

 

I need to get myself back together before undertaking any of this, but it worries me that if it is not me, then it will be someone else...

[LeVana]

omg IUN, can't believe it!! hope you can handle this. wish you the best

[fishinghat]

It has taken decades for things to change here and a lot of lawsuits by citizens. It is so sad.

[looneytune]

Mr Hat

 

Is lethargy part of the WD?

 

Today is day 6 of latest WD from 12mg to 8mg.....it's not BRUTALZ but I can feel it

 

A hero...or a twit. Not quite sure 

[looneytune]

In 8 days time go 5mg for two weeks then 2.5 for two weeks then stop!

[fishinghat]

Doing great LT!!

 

Some have experienced lethargy but most just have so much anxiety that lethargy is not an issue.

 

That sounds like a good plan.

[LeVana]

i developed really really bad anxiety after quitting. and also agoraphobia, depression, dystonia and restless leg syndrome.

and everything doesn´t stop. even worse it increased since using escitalopram as a substitue for dulox.

 

be careful.

[fishinghat]

Boy have I heard these comments before. My drs tries 6 different drugs to relieve my withdrawal before one worked. Some of those drugs caused things to get worse for sure. From the research I have read and what I have seen from members here there is only about a 50/50 chance that a new drug will help.

[looneytune]

Hat

 

Here's the situation....

 

I am having more good than bad days...a run perhaps of a week or so and then a CRASH! The crash does not always coincide with a reduction/taper but there DOES appear to be a pattern here. The crash consists of anxiety/depression and loads of worry about physical health issues that would not normally concern me unduly as I came to terms long ago with existing physical ailments like COPD or whatever

 

How am I able to decide whether these monthly "blips" are indeed DUL30 WD's or not a return to my one time episodes of anxiety/depression of old? If i was confident the BLIPS were a by product of DUL WD I think I would mange better but the thought of....."perhaps it's me and my old anxiety and not the DUL WD" plays on my mind

 

I can't believe that the horrible way i feel from time to time is due to that 6 month spell and reduction of CYMBALTA! Is the WD really having this effect on me?

 

My "WD" symptoms which drop in once or twice a month and I am confusing with run of the mill general anxiety/depression are...anxiety/jitters/worry over the slightest issue and at times unable to cope or even get out of bed. I don't think the length of time these BLIPS last are comparable to general anxiety/depression as they are often gone within a few days and the cycle continues.......so, it's a run of good days and I am thinking "I have beat this" only to be knocked down again over and over.....and the fear this process installs in me of returning time and time again....I hope this makes some sense to you

 

Just wonderin' out loud if the dreadful times I am going through from time to time on a cycle could really be due to my time and taper of DUL tab?

 

I am just GOB smacked that such a long feeling of unpleasantness could be caused by such a relatively short time on this drug and is it acceptable by your good self that it could be responsible for my plight of roller coaster good day/bad days/ good day/bad days????????

 

Hope IUN is well

 

xx

[fishinghat]

That is a tough call LT. Usually the "episodes" like you describe get shorter and less severe each time they occur if they are from withdrawal (unless something happens to set off an episode). With general clinical anxiety/depression the symptoms are more constant with major flair ups when stress levels rise. I know a lot of psychiatrists have told me that they wish there was a significant difference between withdrawal symptoms and a return to pretreatment symptoms after coming off an antidepressant. My observation here if these episodes do get better with time then they are probably just withdrawal but if they stay relatively constant in occurrence and severity over time they are probably a return of previous symptoms.

 

The worrying about health issues is normal for any anxiety/depression issues. these kinds of issues effect the hippocampus and amygdala which are the centers for worry and paranoia so that is to be expected.

[looneytune]

but would I not be having a tough time right now as you guys say it's gets harder as the dose gets smaller? I am surely right now in this moment expected to be getting some heavy duty WD symptoms from time to time,no? coming down 25% every two weeks and as of today on 5mg

 

and remember that I tapered diazepam at same time and over on that site they say that the setbacks/blips can come and go and can go on for months and months.......so how do we sort the WD's and general anxiety apart in a situation like that?

[fishinghat]

"but would I not be having a tough time right now as you guys say it's gets harder as the dose gets smaller?"

 

You are right. That would be typical. 

 

"so how do we sort the WD's and general anxiety apart in a situation like that?"

 

Man. that is the big question for sure. Doctors and researchers have been debating that since antidepressants first hit the market and the issue has not been resolved to their satisfaction. There are even still some doctors that believe there is no withdrawal at all. That the symptoms are just a return of the original problems. Now that many patients are given antidepressants for pain, incontinence, and other issues that pretty much proves that antidepressants do cause withdrawal symptoms. Many of these people who are taking it for pain, incontinence, and other issues have no history of mental health problems so how could it be a return of previous symptoms. The only way to tell, I guess, is to completely come off the drug and wait and see if the symptoms improve with time. I wish I could give you a better answer.

[looneytune]

Hat Pal

 

Tell me more about the smaller taper doses being harder for most folk even although the mg is much smaller than original capsule strength

 

Is it a feature of DULOXETINE when we manage to get down to the ending of taper?

 

I don't think (although I can' be sure and that's a cause for some of my stress) my recent hard times are due to recurring problems of clinical depression because I am having plenty good days on 8mg and can spiral out of control for days at a time....then back to normal

 

If you tell me that most folk struggle at this point of the taper (low doses prior to stopping) then that info will be good enough for me to try and ignore shit and just get on with it

[fishinghat]

Definitely more suffering with those last few mg. The nerves/synapses that had gotten use to the original dose haven't yet fully "healed". So each drop is just a little worse than the drop before if all other things are equal (stress levels, sleep...). once you get down to the last few mg of antidepressant those nerve endings are all still unstable and very susceptible to swings in there performance as they try to adapt to virtually no medicine in your system.

[looneytune]

[invalidusername]

Sounds like Hat has done his usual fine job in my absence.

 

But the one thing to learn from this all, is that the withdrawal doesn't stop once you have stopped the meds - on the contrary, it has only just begun. As Hat said, you brain is trying to work out what is going on all the time that you lessen the usual dose of whatever drug was being used to take the place of the brains function. 

 

The quicker you rush to coming off the med, the longer and more severe the "withdrawal" becomes once you stop.

 

This is often confused with what is called PAWS - post acute withdrawal syndrome. But this isn't really the case when people have rushed to get off the meds. It is not PAWS - it is still the same withdrawal. PAWS is the term used usually for when symptoms return having done a withdrawal correctly.

 

There is a lot to be learnt by all this and it sure is not easy. But listening to yourself is the best way forward - asking yourself if you can carry on what it is you are doing, or even if it gets that little bit worse - otherwise, you should NOT drop as it will only come and bite you in the ass further down the line...

 

IUN

[looneytune]

Hmmmmm...About 10 or so weeks ago I was stricken with a razor sore, sore throat which went into a chest infection (never got tested for Covid) it appeared to clear up but two or three weeks later I felt bad once again, but not quite so bad, so don't know if it was one infection or two. My dear wife suffered the same "two" infections at the same time as myself

 

Around the time of the initial infection I felt as though there was something in my throat that would not clear,like stubborn phlegm or something, and the sensation continues to this day all these weeks later.

 

It's weird, it's quite intermittent and "pops up" now and then only to disappear again...it's not a constant.

 

I ran my story by my doctor who told me to take a COVID test and if negative try Penicillin 2x250mg 4 times a day for a week. Test was negative, so, I am on day 6 of 7 of Penicillin but the "blocked throat" continues.

 

Doc says if the feeling does not clear up it is likely GERD....any connection, you guys, with GERD showing up on DULOXETINE use or taper?

 

Edit; You know, when I think back I was not very happy with the Citalopram gastro symptom ( the meds I was on just prior to Duloxetine) allsorts of pips and squeaks in stomach and the same, plus the shits, for Duloxetine term....

[fishinghat]

"any connection, you guys, with GERD showing up on DULOXETINE use or taper?"

 

Absolutely, DULOXETINE controls serotonin and norepinephrine. Serotonin is the most common neurotransmitter in the digestive tract and any disruption in the levels of serotonin can cause significant digestive issues. 

 

Also, are you taking the remaining beads in a capsule or swallowing them as individual beads? Those beads must be taken in an acid resistant capsule, If the beads are swallowed individually than the stomach acid will remove the coating and the DULOXETINE will be released into the stomach acid where it forms naphthol which is very hard on the stomach. 

[looneytune]

Taking the beads in a regular standard cheap eBay online gelatine capsule...non acid resistant

 

 

 

@fishinghat