8 replies to this topic

[Luxious]

Hello, I've been weaning off for almost 2 weeks now and I'm having a very hard time. The withdrawals are killing me. Out of control anxiety for absolutely no reason and the rage and anger. I'm having second thoughts and I'm wondering if its ok to just start taking my full dose again. I'm not sure this is the right time for me to be trying this. I'm trying to get a job and the anxiety I feel about my interview today is off the charts. I'm sure I will blow it. Please help me. I'm just lost.
Any and all advice is welcome. Thank you 🙏

Edited to add i was on 300 mg and I've been taking 150mg for 2 weeks now.

[fishinghat]

Hi Luxious

 

That is way too fast a wean. It normally takes someone on just 90 mg 6 to 8 months or longer to wean. That big a drop should take you several months. Normally going back up on dose is a hit or miss prospect but given how far you dropped I would say that going back to 300 mg would be your best bet. Realize that it may take 

[fishinghat]

" While a 120 mg/day dose was shown to be effective, there is no evidence that doses greater than 60 mg/day confer any additional benefits. "

 

The above comment is from the manufacturer's drug insert.  From what I have read 300 mg carries with it a significant risk of serotonin syndrome. May I ask how long you have been on the 300 mg dose? Are you having any kind of symptoms that are causing you to want to wean off?

[Luxious]

[quote name="fishinghat" post="98284" timestamp="1644861083"]

" While a 120 mg/day dose was shown to be effective, there is no evidence that doses greater than 60 mg/day confer any additional benefits. "

[font=Arial]The above comment is from the manufacturer's drug insert. From what I have read 300 mg carries with it a significant risk of serotonin syndrome. May I ask how long you have been on the 300 mg dose? Are you having any kind of symptoms that are causing you to want to wean off?

I gradually worked up to this dose under doctor supervision because previous lower doses were ineffective. I've been taking it for a good couple of years. No issues with serotonin syndrome.
I am wanting to get off because of the excessive sweating. I can't handle the heat to the point I get serious anger and rage issues because my body can't tolerate the heat so I am forced to stay inside my air conditioned room all summer. Its too much. I can't do it anymore.

[Luxious]

Hi Luxious

That is way too fast a wean. It normally takes someone on just 90 mg 6 to 8 months or longer to wean. That big a drop should take you several months. Normally going back up on dose is a hit or miss prospect but given how far you dropped I would say that going back to 300 mg would be your best bet. Realize that it may take

I know its too fast a wean. And I have my reasons for doing it this way. I am fully aware of side effects. I'm am just struggling more than I have when I've done this before. Its breaking my resolve.

[fishinghat]

To be honest it may take you a few months to settle down. Have you tried any supplements to see if they help?

[Luxious]

To be honest it may take you a few months to settle down. Have you tried any supplements to see if they help?

I'm not taking any supplements but I am microdosing psilocybin. I started taking that before I started weaning off of the cymbalta. The psilocybin effectively cured my depression and anxiety. Its helped with some of the withdrawl symptoms but not the big ones like the anxiety and anger.
Are there supplements you might suggest that could possibly help?

[fishinghat]

This is far from being a complete list but covers the majority of the supplement suggestions in the ebook however it does contain others as well.

 

Items Proven to Help Many with Cymbalta Withdrawal.

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Diphenhydramine, (over the counter) also known as Benadryl, is an antihistamine and as such is not only used for allergies/colds but also as a sleep aide. It does have a mild anxiolytic effect. May lower blood pressure and cause irregular heartbeats. Your body does build up tolerance to it after a few weeks. This medicine has many drug interactions.

Begins working in 15 to 30 minutes

Peak levels - 2 to 2.5 hrs

Half Life – 4 to 6 hrs

Use by members for anxiety releif and to help sleep is too numerous to mention. 

Diphenhydramine should NOT be taken with hydroxyzine. Drugs.com

 

serendipity - I found Benadryl to produce hangover effects, and cause palpitations when taken long term. Even if you wake up in the middle of the night, and can't get back to sleep, even a teeny amount (say, 15mg) can induce sleep again. 

 

Schmb - Benadryl worked on a limited basis for me, because sometimes it makes me jittery, and that only made the zaps much worse, so just use some caution in case you are sensitive to it.

 

FH - One caution on benadryl. It is famous for bad reactions with other medicine so check your compatability closely. The maximum dosage of benadryl is 25 to 50 mg every 4 to 6 hours and do not surpass 300 mg in a day.

Benadryl Total

Medicinal ingredients:

•Acetaminophen, 500 mg

•Diphenhydramine Hydrochloride, 25 mg

•Pseudoephedrine Hydrochloride, 30 mg

 

It contains diphenhydramine which is the active ingredient in regular Benadryl and also pseudoephedrine which is common in most cold medicines. The Diphenhydramine helps with sleep and anxiety and the pseudoephedrine helps block the action of adrenaline which produces a calming effect. 

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Omega 3

Dose - Omega 3 is recommended at 2000 mg/day EPA and DHA for anxiety, give or take a couple hundred depending on what research you read. It has been shown that only the EPA and DHA components effect anxiety. Any other omega 3 fatty acids don't do anything for anxiety. Life Extensions, Mega EPA/DHA, is distilled (molecularly purified) so you don't get any impurities with your product plus it contains no mercury. Some even provide a certificate of analysis if requested. They also have ones that are enteric coated now that will not irritate the digestive track and has no fish burbs to them. 

 

http://www.cymbaltaw...elps#entry67706

This thread contains a detailed discussion on use of Omega 3.

 

Also this thread....

http://www.cymbaltaw...elps#entry68036

 

Fishinghat - Omega 3 fish oils can be very high in mercury depending on the type of fish used. Some have tested at over 300 ppm mercury. There are brands out there that are mercury free or low mercury guaranteed. Something to think about. If you have thyroid issues they usually contain high iodine concentrations also. One member had an episode of high iodine toxicity I couldn't find a iodine free product. If your thyroid is fine then this should not be an issue.

 

Warning

Arrhythmias

Omega 3

3 Grams of omega 3 per day can worsen cardiac arrythmias.

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Melatonin

FH - a research article where it was shown that taking 0.7 mg of liquid melatonin under the tongue (sublingual) helps with anxiety. Place it under the tongue until dissolved and gone. In case you are not familiar with melatonin it is the chemical your body produces in the evening to make you sleepy and ready for bed. 

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Gatorade

 

Many members found Gatorade to be considerable help in fighting most withdrawal symptoms, especially the green gatorade.

 

Kindorf - Also I have been avoiding caffeine so I cut out my coffee and sweet tea.

I replaced then with fruit juice, ( mainly apple juice ) water and Gatorade. Today no stomach cramps I think they are done. No diarrhea, Lord I hope that is gone. 

 

Judy -  I knew that Gatorade helped with the light-headed, "floating brain" feelings. 

 

watchdog -  Drinks LOTS of GREEN gatorade..... don't know what the deal is, but it helps.

 

wiraz - Drink at least one G2 Gatorade a day – stay away from the full sugar version, leads to a higher chance of diarrhea. I drink one 32 oz bottle every day plus tons of water!!

 

caroline - Vit E also for head and joints and then Gatorade's G2. I didn't want the sugars so I went with the G2

 

Rafael -  I have mild brain zaps but I believe the omega 3 Fish Oil and Gatorade are helping.

 

Sandlion - I took fish oil/other Omega 3 and also found that Gatorade helped -- maybe it's the salt replacement after all the nightsweats.

 

guppie -  I'm a month off the drug so only minor zaps now and then. Whoever gave the gatorade advice is a genius. That treats them instantly (make sure you get the low calorie gatorade since regular is high calorie). Brain zaps are minor. I grab a gatorade and that gets rid of those for a bit (electrolytes). 

 

Alisha - gatorade-had one of the big bottles yesterday and it did seem to help,

 

Vinvin - The Fierce Green Apple Gatorade, Dramamine and Boylan's Ginger Ale seem to help out as well 

 

Summary - Many members mentioned drinking Gatorade for the electrolytes after diarrhea, night sweats and when having brain zaps. G2 was often mentioned because it has no sugar (not true, see below). Also, it was suggested that one should not just rely on Gatorade alone for hydrated but should also drink plenti of water. Green Gatorade is highly recommended by some members.  Vitylite and Powerade were also mentioned a couple times for electrolytes. I would also recommend Isopure as it comes with and without sugars and proteins with a similar amount and type of electrolytes as Gatorade.

 

G2 Gatorade - It has the same amount of sugar as regular Gatorade and nearly all the same ingredients and electrolytes.

 

Gatorade Fierce Green Apple Sports Drink - This may be the "green  gatorade" that members spoke of. It contains malic acid, the active ingredient in apple cider vinager which has proved so helpful to other members. Other ingredients are the same.

 

Isopure Zero Carbs - No sugar, with some calcium. Contains Malic acid

Isopure Mass - With sugar and proteins, with calcium, Contains Malic acid

Isopure zero carb with proteins - no sugar, contains proteins. With calcium  Contains Malic acid

 

Sparkybird - I’ve found that Pur Aqua Sparkling Frost in any flavor has malic acid. I discovered it by accident. It is only 50 cents at Aldi’s. It is only 10 calories a bottle.

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L-theanine 

L-theanine is an amino acid precursor to glutamate (involved in the synthesis of GABA) and glutamine. It can cross the blood brain barrier. It is only produced by plants and fungi and a component in some teas. It inhibits glutamine transporters and glutamate transporters, and thus blocks the reuptake of glutamine and glutamate. Theanine increases serotonin, dopamine, GABA, and glycine levels in various areas of the brain. Caution – Most plants that contain L-theanine also contain caffeine and it can be a significant contaminant in L-theanine supplements. It is synthesized from glutamate using the enzyme glutamate decarboxylase and pyridoxal phosphate (which is the active form of vitamin B6) as a cofactor. This process converts glutamate, the principal excitatory neurotransmitter, into the principal inhibitory neurotransmitter (GABA).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theanine

 

Member's comments

(puritan's pride) 200 mg capsules 2- 3/ day. I have been taking this prior to cymbalta detox. It helped me reduce my dosage of clonazepam. Within 20-30 mins I feel more calm. I do believe it is helping keep the anxiety in check.

 

Tinabee - For now I have started taking fish oil and a supplement called Theanine Serene that is supposed to help with anxiety. I know it sounds silly since I've only taken the anxiety supplement for a couple days but I really feel like it has helped.

200mg L-Theanine in the morning with a full glass of water on an empty stomach, you can take again in late afternoon 100 to 200 mg if needed (make sure it is suntheanine - it helps with headaches and pain as any painkiller I had just did not cut it)

Member's comments were generally favorable.

 

http://www.cymbaltaw...page-2?hl=helps

Page 1 and 2, detailed information on L theanine and its usage.

 

Research

The research shows that all green tea leaves contain both L-theanine and D- theanine BUT only the special processing used by the manufacturer produces pure L-Theanine and is the choice of many of the research biologists.

 

 

Five of the six products contained significant amounts of D-theanine. Only one product, SunTheanine, appeared to contain only the L-theanine enantiomer. D-theanine is not used by the humnn body.  Suntheanine is the pure ingredient and that is what you want. 

 

Key Points

Theanine increases serotonin, dopamine, GABA, and glycine levels in various areas of the brain. 

 

Scientific Information

A National Standard monograph that reviews current research on theanine reports that it is likely safe in doses of 200–250 mg up to a maximum daily dose of 1,200 mg. Theanine is used to help with anxiety, blood pressure control, mood, and cognition. 

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Prescription Meds

 

Clonidine

Clonidine  (Catapres, Kapvay, Nexiclon, Clophelin) is a classic blood pressure medicine BUT it is very effective on anxiety. It is an alpha adrenergic antagonist which means it stimulates the alpha adrenaline synapses located in the frontal lobes of the brain. When these synapses are stimulated by the clonidine the brain thinks that it is due to adrenaline and it tells the adrenal gland to produce less adrenaline. It is a little slow to kick in, about an hour and a half. It has a 12 hour half life. Most drs prescribe 0.1 mg twice a day. One to be taken about an hour before bedtime and the other in the morning. Because it decreases adrenaline it has a strong calming effect which helps a person get to sleep and stay a sleep. It is not unusual for people to have a little drowsiness from clonidine until they get use to it (1 or 2 weeks). It does NOT work faster sublingual (under the tongue) like benzos.  These have no withdrawal but your blood pressure may spike for a couple weeks if you cold turkey. Due to the lowering of blood pressure and sleepiness it is common for the patient to start with ½ tablet at bedtime. Once the patient adjusts to the medicine they begin a ½ tablet in the morning. As sleepiness and blood pressure stabilize they are slowly worked up to the 2 tablets (0.1 mg each) a day. 

Begins working 60 to 90 minutes

Peak levels – 3 to 5  hrs

Half Life – 12 - 16 hrs

There are too many research articles on clonidine's anxiolytic properties to list here.

 

FH - I started clonidine but it was a relief to me NOT to be able to feel my heart pound through my chest. As long as your bp is OK you shouldn't have a problem. 

That is why the slow start up. This gives your heart a chance to adapt to the new med. I did the same slow start up and my bp stayed within normal range. Just keep monitoring your bp and you should be OK.

 

FN - clonidine worked wonders for me 

 

Hydroxyzine, (Vistaril, Atarax) - is an H(1)R antagonist, is very effective against anxiety in most people but some get no help from it at all. It is not addictive nor does it have withdrawal but it also can lower blood pressure some but that usually goes away with time. This medicine should be started slowly to give your body a chance to adjust to the blood pressure effect. Normal dose is 25 mg four times a day but can go as high as 400mg/day.

Begins working in 30 minutes or less

Peak levels - 2  hrs

Half Life – 15 to 20 hrs

Do not take with cimetidine as it increases hydroxyzine levels in the blood.

 

https://www.mayoclin...se/drg-20311434

(Mayo Clinic)

For oral dosage forms (capsules or suspension): 

⦁ To help control anxiety and tension: 

⦁ Adults—50 to 100 milligrams (mg) 4 times a day. 

 

Atenolol is a beta 1 adrenergic receptor antagonist, also known as a beta blocker. It does not pass  through the blood brain barrier which limits its side effects compared to other beta blockers. It has been linked to a higher risk of type 2 diabetes. It may cause drowsiness and lower blood pressure. Typical dosage around 25 mg four times/day. Dosage should be slowly increased.

Begins working in 30 minutes to an hour

Peak levels – 2 – 4 hrs

Half Life – 6 - 8 hrs

SF - So now I am on one. It is called Atilonol (Atenolol?) and calms down your heart rate too.

 

Buspirone (Buspar) is a seratonin 5-HT1A  receptor partial agonist and a dopamine antagonist at the receptors. It functions as a weak anti-anxiety medication similar to diazepam in strength (a weak benzo). No withdrawal or tolerance issues. Dosage should be kept low if taking a ssri and/or snri or St. John's Wort as it may cause seratonin syndrome. DO NOT take with grapefruit or grapefruit juice. May lower blood pressure. Typical dosage is 10 to 20 mg three times per day.

Begins working 3 to 7 days after begin dosing

Peak levels - 1  hrs

Half Life – 2 - 4 hrs

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/22998742

Buspar (15mg) and Melatonin (3 mg) yielded the best anti-depressant effect of any combination concentration tested. (See Melatonin below)

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/25156283

Buspar and melatonin in combination is anxiolytic.

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Dos and Don'ts

 

DON'T ...

take Omeprazole (Prilosec)

Significant drug interactions.

omeprazole ↔ citalopram

Applies to omeprazole and Celexa (citalopram) 

Talk to your doctor before using citalopram together with omeprazole. Combining these medications may increase the blood levels of citalopram and increase the risk of certain side effects, including an irregular heart rhythm that may be serious or life-threatening. 

 

Caution - Omeprazole causes the increased absorbtion of nearly 500 medications. It should NOT be taken with.....

Benzos, Atenolol, Celexa, Lexapro and many other ssri and snri, st. john's wort, etc.

 

Don't take St. John's Wort, 5HTP, tryptophan, SAMe, Dextromethorphan (a cough syrup/cold medicine) with an antidepressant - Serotonin Syndrome.

 

Don't take Stimulants (Make anxiety worse)

Caffeine 

Over-the-counter cold preparations contain phenylpropylamine and pseudoephedrine*

Sleep deprivation

Marijuana*

Magnesium*

MSG

Alcohol

Stress

amphetamines

ecstasy

nicotine

Ginseng

L-Tyrosine 

B Vitamins*

aspartame

Coconut Oil 

Taurine 

DHEA 

Ginkgo 

Iodine 

Arginine

Sugar

Kava

* - Only some people have this reaction.

 

Things containing caffeine..

Coffee, Espresso, Cappuccino, some Teas,  Low calorie, non-cola soda containing aspartame,  Low calorie colas containing aspartame or saccharine, Energy drinks, Some types of alcoholic drinks.

Chocolate ....Baking, Dark, Sweet and semisweet, Pudding, Cereals, Fudge , Milk chocolate, Syrup, Mousse, Soymilk, Fat free cookies, Cookies, Cake, Frozen Yogurt, Ice cream, Frosting, and Shakes .

Java Pops, Chai Mints, Green Tea, Warp Mints, Penguin mints, and cinnamons. Caffeinated Energy Strips, Caffeinated Fruity Lollipops, HyDrive Energy Chews, Caffeinated Nixie Tubes, Foosh Energy Mints, Atomic Energy Bites, Buzz Bites, KickBricks, Energy Chews, Reload Energy Strips, Movit Gummies, Caffeinated jellybeans, Morning Spark, Oatmeal, Sumseeds (caffeinated sunflower seeds), Lightning Rods (beef sticks), Engobi "Energy Go Bites" (crispy snacks), Jolt Gum, Blitz Energy Gum, Think Gum Stay Alert, Vibe Black, Black Go Fast!, Dozens and dozens of herbal supplements.

https://www.caffeine...ffeine-database

List of energy drinks with caffiene. (over 100)

 

Don't take Depressants (Make depression worse)

Oxalic acid is found in members of the spinach family and cabbage, broccoli, brussels sprouts, chives and lamb's quarters are high in oxalates, as are sorrel and parsley. Rhubarb leaves contain about 0.5% oxalic acid.

Can cause depression, lack of minerals, kidney stones, and more. Cooking does not affect oxalic acid. People with kidney disease, a history of kidney stones or suffer from depression should avoid these foods. 

other depressants:

Aspartame

Gluten

High Fat Dairy

Sugar 

alcohol

Trans fats

Sodium 

Caffiene

Pesticide residue on foods

GHB

exposure to organic solvents (paint, varnish, stains, cleaning solvents, paint thinner, etc).

 

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Do

take 500 mg of vitamin C per day or 300 mg of NAC - (N-acetyl cysteine) an antioxidant

learn Cognitive Behavioral Therapy or Mindfulness

sleep as much as possible

Keeping a Journal  - Don't trust your memory during withdrawal.

Stay hydrated

[invalidusername]

I am really glad to hear that the psilocybin helped you, but remember this raises serotonin - but if you have had 300mg Cymbalta and been clear, then you clearly have a tolerance for higher doses.

 

If you started that BEFORE you started your wean, then it will only have served to raise your serotonin. Trials for psilocybin have been undertaken once all SSRI's etc have been washed out the system. Microdosing withdrawal using psilocybin is very much a new kid on the block and there isn't much in the way of research. 

 

I would advise, given your success, that you increase your psilocybin dose as you withdrawal. The way in which psilocybin works is different to your allopathic drugs, but you will find that once you hit that sweet spot, you will feel better and able to drop the dose further.

 

I cannot honestly say too much about the interactions of psilocybin with other supplements mentioned by Hat above - again, it is all too new. You are entering a brave new world of withdrawal techniques. 

 

Can you say what dose you have been taking, and how frequently for the psilocybin? I can advise on these vis-a-vis your cymbalta dose. What you want to avoid is increasing your serotonin BEFORE reducing, but then if the additional serotonin cured your symptoms, this raises more questions. If you had anxiety and depression on 300mg cymbalta, why were you withdrawing?

 

IUN