33 replies to this topic

[talieandsasha]

I was on cymbalta 30mg since Dec and by Feb/March the lack of proper sleep, nightmares and constant sweating started to get worse and by mid June it got even worse. I could barely stay awake because I was never sleeping properly. I had no issues falling asleep but then the dreams & nightmares started and I would never rest. I decided to stop last week and my dr is away but my pharmacist said since I was on lowest dose I could just stop, so I did. My last dose was Friday night and now we are the following Thursday and the nausea and dizziness have mostly stopped but the nightmares are so so much worse  

 

I am not really functional and I am so tired

 

When does it get better?! Will I ever be able to sleep again? It sort of feels hopeless today 

 

 

[fishinghat]

Welcome talieandsasha

 

This is not an unusual reaction to Cymbalta (unluckily). You were on it for a little over 6 months so it coukld take a long time for things to correct itself. Having said that it should be noted some some don't even have a withdrawal and others take 2 years or more to recover. Typically we see that it is around a year before a person regains some stability BUT your nausea and dizziness has already stopped and that is very fast so indeed a good sign you may heal fast. Considering you have been off for a week know I would not recommend that you go back on and "bead count" your way down slowly. 

 

The recovery from insomnia is one of the last symptoms to fade away but there are some options. I would strongly urge you to read our free ebook (I will post a link below), It contains information on supplements that may help, diet, medications, medical research and what members have tried and the results. You will probably have questions on things so please feel free to come back and ask questions, update us or just vent your frustrations. We are here to help.

[fishinghat]

Whoops, forgot the link.

 

https://www.cymbalta...-ebook/?p=96693

[talieandsasha]

Thank you so much. Knowing I'm not alone and that it will eventually get better is a bit of a relief! I read parts of the PDF but too tired to continue for now. I do have CBD oil from when I used to take it for anxiety (prior to starting cymbalta) so I will try that tonight to see if it can at least bring some relief to the nightmares. 

 

Last night the best way to describe my experience was non stop vivid dreaming where I was aware I was dreaming, aware I was not sleeping deeply yet unable to control or stop it. It's pretty scary and you wake up feeling hopeless. The worst part is for 3 mths I thought all my symptoms were perimenopause so I went on hormones to help but it did nothing and as months progressed my sweating & nightmares and being constantly tired just got worse & worse.

[fishinghat]

This experince can be really tough and we wish you all the best. It may take some time but we will get through this together.

[invalidusername]

Hi talieandsasha, and a warm welcome from me...

 

Hat has got you off to a great start as he usually does and I would like to echo his comments. Nightmares and vivid dreaming is seen so frequently with these sorts of drugs, not only Cymbalta, but if you were to search on the site (little box in top right of all pages) you will see just how many people have had similar issues. But this by no means diminishes your current situation. I have been there myself and know how you feel first hand. 

 

It is often accepted than the psychological issues get worse during withdrawal, which is why we always suggest bead counting. Doses of 20mg are available, but 30mg is considered the lowest, as 20mg is unlikely to have much effect. 

 

After a week, reinstating your initial dose is a no-no for sure, as Hat said. It is possible for you to start a mid-point withdrawal and drop from there, or you could just stay put and ride the storm. No-one can know how you will react in the latter option. If you wanted to opt for a withdrawal, I would consider starting back at around 50% of your initial dose at 15mg, stabalise and gradually reduce from there, but given that you came off these due to unwanted side effects, you may end up prolonging the issue. Again, no-one can say which would be the best course of action to take. 

 

Other than the CBD oil, have you tried any other supplement? A good (and safe) bet for sleep issues would be KSM-66 ashwagandha. Meditation can go a long way to helping too. Not wanting to pry too much, but do you any any current circumstances that are causing distress that the Cymbalta may be accentuating? 

 

Thoughts are with you - please keep us updated and will help as best we can

 

IUN

[talieandsasha]

Hi Invalidusername! 

 

I take omega 3, vitamin D, probiotic ginseng and collagen every morning (been several years now) 

 

I had stopped meditating in the last month which I shouldn't have so I started again today and it helped me have a nap that felt a bit better. 

 

I'm also taking gravol (anti nausea drug) because it seems it's not quite gone yet. Yesterday was an ok day dizziness and nausea wise, but today I went to do groceries and when I got back it hit me HARD and I threw up.. so back on gravol I went. 

 

I had taken effexor several years ago and that weaning off process was horrendous. I was sick for 2 months and when my dr suggested cymbalta she said it would be easier to go off of it so I said ok. I think I am just NOT cut out for this molecule. Celexa, Effexor and now Cymbalta have all proven to take away my quality of life. Cymbalta was suggested this time because i was also suffering from nerve pain from compressed nerve in lower back and the dr said it was 2 molecules not just the 1 so i might react better to it, but I did not. 

 

I think what is not helping is I am peri menopause so for many months I attributed the lack of sleep quality & sweating to that, so I was put on birth control 3 mths ago and it did not help, in fact this last month I got worse. Not functional. I sleep 8 hrs but I don't ever feel rested because of wild dreams ALL night with constant sweating so during my recent 2 week vacation all I did wasI wake up, walk the dog and go back to sleep for 3 hours, plus nap in afternoon and repeat the process every day doing nothing on my time off because I was too hot and too tired. That was a wake up call for me and I said I'm done. 

 

I will look into the KSM-66 ashwagandha and give it a shot! 

 

Tonight I will take a gravol (1 not 2) medidate, listen to a sleep cast on headspace and hope I get a bit of rest and take it 1 hr at a time. I know it will get better, I just wish I knew what to expect and when  

 

Thank you so so much! xo

[talieandsasha]

Actually I have a jar of this I didn't use... would this be good?

https://takecareof.c...s/ashwagandha_2

[invalidusername]

Hi talieandsasha,

 

The first thing I might suggest is to take the collagen before sleep. As it contains glycine, this has been shown to promote good sleep patterns. The benefits of the collagen are not affected by the time you take the supplement. 

 

Omega 3, ginseng and probiotics are good - vitamin D is fine if you have shown to have a deficiency, otherwise you will be wasting your money. It won't do any harm, but it will not promote any health benefits either. Contrary to what a lot of people would have you believe, the body can allow for its respective levels of vitamin D without supplementation.

 

Glad that you have started the meditation. I am sure that will help you. 

 

You might find the nausea repeats on you somewhat over the next couple of weeks as you head tries to find the right level of chemicals now the Cymbalta is no longer managing them. We all have serotonin receptors in the inner ear which, when deprived of its usual dose, will often cause mayhem. Any inner ear disruption will cause nausea due to the balance being affected. This is unfortunately, a waiting game. 

 

You will of course suffer as a result of these vivd dreams. I get something similar after periods of severe stress now. It is taking what the brain cannot deal with successfully during the day and processing it at night when you unfortunately do not have control over it. 

 

The ashwagandha you have is the simple root extract - it may well work and if you already have them, then it would be worth your while trying them. The difference between these and KSM-66 is that the KSM-66 is a standardised extract made from a specific part of the root which it known to contain the highest concentration of withanoids (the concentration of the extract). Where any part of the root (and is some very questionable suppliers, other parts of the herb), there is no means of knowing the strength and thus you could be taking different levels with each capsule. 

 

The dose of 600mg may not be enough to have the desired effect and the site isn't quite accurate in telling you to take them on an empty stomach. Ashwagandha needs a little bit of fat to bind to so that they a suitably processed. This can be a small glass of milk, or a piece of chocolate - not a lot is needed, but taking with any larger amounts of food is not going to help. 

 

You do not need to build ashwagandha up in your system much past 2 or 3 days - most people find they feel the benefit from the first dose if they are going to. Start with 600mg, but if you do not get any effect, you can safely increase this dose to three capsules (1800mg). This would be the equivalent of around ~800mg of standardised full-spectrum (KSM) extract. 

 

See how it goes and let us know....

 

IUN

[talieandsasha]

Hi IUN,

 

OMG seriously I cannot thank you enough!!!!! 

 

I just purchased these https://www.amazon.c...chk_typ_imgToDp

 

They will arrive Sunday so I started the care/of ones I already have and move to these when they arrive. 

 

The way you both have explained everything helps me, understanding what is happening actually helps. 

 

My Dr has me on Vitamin D, she said at my age (45) and being female, it can help prevent certain cancers.. so I take it lol

 

Does the ginseng do anything or should I skip that?

 

I will also move collagen to evenings, does it make sense to take collagen + ashwagandha at the same time an hour or so before bed?

 

Thank you again! <3

 

Chantal

[fishinghat]

Talieandsasha, I would also like to mention that you can build up tolerance to ashwagandha. So it may help for a few days and then the effectiveness may fade. Most use it for a short period of time, off for a short period of time and then back on it again.

 

Ginseng has been used with some success by a few members but there are some potential issues. Ginseng raises norepinephrine and adrenaline so it may make anxiety worse HOWEVER it also raises endorphines which can help anxiety as well as pain issues. There hasa been a lot of variability on how people react to this supplement. Most drs consider it a stimulant though.

[invalidusername]

Just looked at your purchase, and that looks like a very good buy. Nice to see photos of the actual product rather than a label photoshop'd on another bottle! Standardised to 5% withanolides is the default for KSM-66 and those that quote higher need to be looked at carefully before spending good money. The process used to test the level of withanolides, gravimetry, can often be out by 2-4%, so those that state a minimum of 5% are simply playing it safe and being honest. Plus some manufacturers use the leaves which up the quota of withanolides, but are not the withanolides you want to be consuming! Its a minefield! So I avoid suggesting people hunt down the highest possible concentration. One is far better sticking to what is genuine and up'ing the dose as needed. 

 

So start with the 600mg. My sweet spot was 1200mg (two capsules), but as Hat rightly said, tolerance breaks are required. As a minimum, you need 2-3 days every fortnight, but if you feel you are able to, then there is no harm in missing on mid-point. But the longer it is left without a "t-break", the longer that break needs to be, but generally capped to around 10 days as a maximum.

 

A lot of verbage, but far better that people know how this stuff works. The bottom line is that withanolides are good if they are the ones you need. Without suitable certification evidencing the process of analysis (which VERY few show), just stick to the 5% stuff. So, good purchase - let us know how it goes.

 

IUN

[frog]

Just want to validate your experience. When I first started taking Cymbalta I went through at least a few months of bad night sweats (would wake up drenched) and had vivid dreams. Not necessarily nightmares just intense, very real. I think your doctor's comments are rather strange? Effexor and Cymbalta both affect the same neurotransmitters, they are both SNRIs. Also it's suggested that Effexor has a worse withdrawal because it has a VERY short half life, but Cymbalta's isn't a whole lot longer (avg 5 hrs vs avg 12 hrs). Both way too short in my opinion to give much runway to the brain to adjust when discontinuing. Anecdotally speaking, I've taken both Effexor (about 1 year) and Cymbalta (about 5 years) and I had a very minimal withdrawal from Effexor and a horrendous one from Cymbalta that has resulted in chronic anxiety. But that's neither here nor there. 

 

To combat nighttime dreams I would recommend putting your sleep hygiene on hyperdrive. Keep stress to a minimum during the day, get a good wind down routine for the hours before bed and throw some supplements in the mix that promote relaxation (I would add to the above and suggest L-theanine. Take it daily and in a week or so it can help reduce feelings of stress). It will pass eventually, just do your best to not fear going to bed so you don't give yourself insomnia in the interim

 

BTW Cymbalta can cause drowsiness so you may have been sleeping a lot on it because of the drug itself not because you were tired from the dreams. That was the case for me. Even after the startup side effects passed on a weekend I could sleep 10 hours, take a multi hour nap in the afternoon and be ready for bed again by 11 or midnight. It took me a really long time to connect the dots that this may have been drug induced. 

[talieandsasha]

Frog, thank you so much for this! I don't understand medical professionals sometimes When I thought I was having horrible preimenopause, my dr put me on birth control (Not a candidate for HRT since I still have a cycle) and went ON AND ON about the risks of birth control and HRT at my age.. but I was never given a speech of explained risks etc when I was offered Cymbalta! 

 

I started the ashwagandha around 4-5 days ago and received the KS86 yesterday. I have been taking it late evening with some dairy (I combine it with my evening routine of a snack high in tryptophan) and 1 reg. gravol and I can honestly say that these 4-5 nights have been the best nights sleep I've had in over 1-2 months! It's by no means perfect, but at least I don't feel awake and sleeping and dreaming and I feel like I can function the following morning. 

 

My routine also consists of meditation in bed followed by a sleepcast. I am a huge Headspace believer and it's been life changing for me I was using it daily for 4-5 mths but June & July I stopped, I was just feeling so horrible like a zombie and nothing was soothing me and I was just irritated. 

 

 

I wanted to ask if anyone else has had weird cravings during withdrawl?

I cannot get enough orange juice! I just want it all the time, it helps settle my upset stomach I find and feels soothing! 

 

The gravol helps with my brain zaps & nausea dizziness so I take 1 when I feel it getting worse and I get a few hours of some relief. 

 

So after 11 days, I am feeling better than when I was on Cynbalta and better than I had been feeling the first several days. It's nowhere near ok or feeling normal but I feel like I can get through this <3

[invalidusername]

I started the ashwagandha around 4-5 days ago and received the KS86 yesterday. I have been taking it late evening with some dairy (I combine it with my evening routine of a snack high in tryptophan) and 1 reg. gravol and I can honestly say that these 4-5 nights have been the best nights sleep I've had in over 1-2 months! It's by no means perfect, but at least I don't feel awake and sleeping and dreaming and I feel like I can function the following morning. 

 

I was so happy to read this Chantal! I am so happy for you!

 

As you say, it is not perfect, but from where you came from, it is a good improvement and that is a wonderful thing. If the Ashwagandha is already helping, you might find the KSM-66 a little more potent! In higher doses, it will make your body feel like it is a lump of lead and you will be weighed down to the bed - happy to be so! But you may find that you just feel a lot more content with things in general. 

 

So glad it has helped you. Keep us posted.

[frog]

Frog, thank you so much for this! I don't understand medical professionals sometimes When I thought I was having horrible preimenopause, my dr put me on birth control (Not a candidate for HRT since I still have a cycle) and went ON AND ON about the risks of birth control and HRT at my age.. but I was never given a speech of explained risks etc when I was offered Cymbalta! 

 

I'm guessing you were prescribed Cymbalta by a gynecologist then? I was too. I think that's the risk of being prescribed a mental health medication by someone who's not a psychiatrist. It's not their field so they don't study it in depth and as a result can't adequately inform you about the risks or potential side effects or the proper way to taper off these medications safely. I was told by mine to take it every other for a few weeks. Just awful. I really believe that mental health meds should not be prescribed without the guidance of a psychiatrist or NP. People deserve to fully understand how they might be affected and have the support to deal with the inevitable side effects. 

 

I'm glad your sleep is improving again. Keep up the relaxation apps. I think when you're in the thick of withdrawal a lot of the normal coping tools don't help because your system is so thrown off it's the equivalent of a dog peeing on a house fire. But as things settle down I'm sure you'll find that you're able to exert more and more control over what's happening. 

[fishinghat]

Several thing pops into my mind. Why would a gynecologist put you on Cymbalta when it has a history of lowering estrogen and testosterone production? Rhetorical

 

Many members have reported cravings during Cymbalta withdrawal.

[talieandsasha]

REALLY?! 

 

I was prescribed Cymbalta in Dec because I was having trouble managing my anxiety and because I have herniated discs and nerve pain down my leg & she seemed to think this was a kill 2 birds 1 stone. She is a family dr, so not a specialist in gynecology or psychiatry

 

She did know I was perimenopausal when it was prescribed.....  

[fishinghat]

Got it. Hang in there.

[invalidusername]

General practitioners are often led by what is handed to them from the pharma community. As Hat is often saying, there are around 4000 papers released every month in the medicinal academic community - they do not have time to keep up with it all.

 

However....

 

This does not excuse their lack of intellectual integrity. And some are down-right stupid.

 

The last time I went to see a private p-doc (£275/$380 for a 50 minute session) he offered a drug and told me "these will work much better because they are new". My immediate response was "how do you know?". This escalated to a back-and-forth discourse in me explaining to the guy that time and plenty of peer-reviewed papers make a drug hold a better reputation. Just because it is new, doesn't mean it is any better. Subjectively speaking, SSRI's haven't got any better in the last 30 years since the introduction of Prozac.

 

It is very much a patient-beware age we have going on here. 

[fishinghat]

"Subjectively speaking, SSRI's haven't got any better in the last 30 years since the introduction of Prozac."

 

How true.

[talieandsasha]

Hi all, 

 

day 17 update

 

The ashwagandha KS86 has been a godsend... I take 2 before bed along with my collagen pill and it makes my sleep so so much better! I still have dreams but they are starting to feel a bit less intense... really hoping it goes away 100% sooner than later.

 

The nausea isn't much better... comes and goes throughout the day and I can't quite figure out if something triggers it, nothing stands out right now. I just don't feel good still

The bowel issues have calmed down greatly so that is a relief, but I still feel SO SO bloated - is that normal? Like I just feel REALLY fat for 1-2 weeks and it's very strange..

 

Thanks

 

Chantal

 

 

[fishinghat]

Bloating is normal tas. It should be settling down over the next 3 weeks or so. 

[talieandsasha]

Thank you! I imagine it's around the same time as nausea? Thats getting to be hard to push through, you feel so bad all day  

[invalidusername]

So glad that the KSM-66 has worked so well. It can certainly be a little miracle for people - always better to go directly for the better stuff as I said before. I remember when I first discovered it - I felt the exact same way. Really did wonders for my sleep. I just had to make sure that I had done my night time ablutions otherwise it just wouldn't have happened after I had taken my dose! 

 

You are right that the bloating can in turn accompany the nausea - the trapped air can increase the concentration of acid in the stomach. As Hat said, it will pass. Unfortunately, there is a period of "time and patience" (Hat's favourite phrase) that one must go through.

 

I forget, do I need to pay royalties to Hat when I use this phrase?!?

 

Honestly, if you search for "time and patience" on the site, you will find countless posts.. LOL

[fishinghat]

Time and patience is so important for serious complicated battles of any kind. It reminds me of that old childrens joke...

 

How do you eat an elephant?  Answer - One bite at a time. 

[invalidusername]

You are absolutely right Hat. 

 

You may say it a lot, but it is absolutely necessary. 

[talieandsasha]

Hi guys! 

So I am just shy of 2 mths off cymbalta and although I feel overall ALOT better... I am struggling with days where I don't like ANY food. the thought of eating X makes me nauseous, I buy food to cook and when it comes time to make it, I don't want it anymore. there are some days that are ok but still quite a few crappy days

 

Is this part of the withdrawal? Should I still use gravol for this to help?

[fishinghat]

Manu use gravol to kelp. I say again, you have really been blessed with a mild withdrawal. I am so happy that you have not went through the same horrible withgdrawal as so many here. 

 

Hang in there. Things should slowly get better in the taste department.

[talieandsasha]

Thank you <3

I really did not think I would still feel sick after 2 months 

I still am the sole driver, if my husband drives I get nausea and dizziness and that isn't better yet

 

 

I just wanted to check in to make sure this was part of the normal process and keep hanging in there

 

Thanks