359 replies to this topic

[mimi10]

Sorry but I am slightly confused.  I can definitely pick up some CBD product at the dispensary to add in but are you saying that there is no withdrawal from the gummy I have been using, that because it’s THC and ingested it doesn’t have a withdrawal.  It was making me buzzed an hour or so after taking it which is why I only used it at bedtime.   I definitely feel like there is a pretty strong withdrawal starting the third day after I make a cut. 

[invalidusername]

Sorry - maybe didn't make it quite clear.

 

I was trying to establish whether it was THCa in the gummies, as there are some cheap knock offs which have only THC which will do nothing other than a placebo. If you have THCa in the gummies, which you probably have, then there will be a withdrawal. 

[mimi10]

IUN, I talked to one of the bud tenders  at the dispensary and it seemed like he said the opposite.  He said that my gummies do have THC in them and will make you high and do have a withdrawal.  He said some of their products have THCa in them and they do not make you high or have a withdrawal.  Something about the size of the molecules and not fitting into  the cannaboid receptors.  All kind of confusing to me but apparently I am getting withdrawal from them and it is pretty nasty.  I’m holding where I am right now at 5/8 dose which is I guess a dose of 12.5 CBD and 6.25 THC.  Soon I am going to make another cut by 1/8 of the gummy to get to an even half dose which would be 10cbd and 5 THC, much easier to make that cut of the gummy and there is the same brand of gummy at the dispensary which has 5cbd and 5thc in it so I’m assuming I could change over to that when I get to the half dose.  Does that make sense?  Thanks for helping me to understand, wish I had known before I started taking this 3 years ago.  

[invalidusername]

My apologies - I was getting the two mixed up! Easily done when replying too late at night.

 

The THCa is what is used in the stuff that people can buy over here in the UK and consider it a means to get "high", but this is simply not possible - this is done purely for legal constraints. THCa can still be advertised as Cannabis, thus people get drawn into thinking that it is the real deal.

 

Yes, ingesting THC will have the desired effect in most cases, but having said that, there are still many that exist of poor quality where the decarboxylation process is not adequate which is why you should always make sure you acquire from reputable sources. People often make the mistake of thinking they can get high from ingesting raw leaf, but this is not possible as it is not metabolised in the same way. And even before cooking with it, there are still stages through which the raw compound must be prepared. 

 

Back in "the day", friends of mine would just put raw weed on pizza, cook it, and think they got high, but it was all placebo effect. There is a lot more science to it.

 

This site is quite informative for the curious;

 

https://www.royalque...is-edibles-n754

[mimi10]

I realize this is entirely off topic but I am posting here today to ask for your thoughts and prayers.  I went to the dentist yesterday for a teeth cleaning and he was concerned about enlarged lymph nodes in my neck, told me to check in with my oncologist.  I had NHL seven years ago and have been in remission since summer of 2014.  I am both nervous and scared.  My oncologist very recently relocated out of state so my appointment is with the doc who has replaced her.  She cannot see me until may 13th so I am to see her PA on Monday morning and if the PA needs to consult with the doc, she will either go and consult with her or bring her into me. Doc wants to do it this way in case she needs any scans or tests done I could get them done before she sees me in may.  I am very nervous about all of this as my treatment consisted of 5 drugs in the chemo cocktail, two of which have a lifetime limit on them as to how much you can get and I had my lifetime amount in my six rounds of chemo.   Again, all thoughts and prayers would be much appreciated.

[fishinghat]

Truly a challenging situation. You will be in my heart and prayers mimi. You have been through so much. This is the time to be kind to yourself. Don't worry about about anything else righht now but pampering yourself. Do you have family or freinds for support? We are here to help in anyway [possible.

 

If there is any research I can do on the medical journals please let me know.

[frog]

Thinking of you Mimi. Hoping it's a false alarm but I'm sure this is a very scary and very triggering time based on everything you've already been through. 

[invalidusername]

Can only echo what my friends have said. Truly a concerning time for you, and you will be in my prayers.

 

As Hat said, now is the time to be as kind to yourself as you possibly can. Have some time out, relax and pamper yourself. This will help on many levels...

[mimi10]

Thanks to you all for your thoughts and prayers.  Hat, I am very fortunate to have support from my husband and two grown children as well as my two brothers and several good friends.  I saw the oncologist’s PA yesterday morning, she sent me to their lab to have blood drawn before I left and ordered ct scan with barium and IV contrast of neck, chest, abdomen and pelvis.  CT appt was made so I wEnt to the radiology center to pickup the barium and do paperwork for test.   Today drank  the barium according to their schedule, went  to the radiology center, had IV put in my arm and when the tech tried to do the CT scan the machine was not working properly.  She said nothing was showing up on her monitors.  Luckily another office of the radiology center said since I was prepped for the test they would fit me into their schedule.  The tech wrapped my arm with the IV in it and sent me to the other office which was only a few miles away from them.  So I did get the CT scan done, now the wait for results.  Tech said doc should have them on Thursday.

In the meantime, withdrawal effects from cymbalta seem to be lessening with each passing day.  I have also managed to trim my medical marijuana dose to half, which would now be 10cbd and 5thc.  I am going to leave that where it is for now.  As for the mirtazapine, I have been taking the 7.5 dose usually about every other night.  Seems like every other night I am falling asleep on my own and while not sleeping well, am sleeping about the same as the nights I take the mirtazapine, usually about 5 hours from 10 to 3.  I am hopeful sleep will gradually get better.  I am unsure as to how many nights I can skip the mirtazapine without causing withdrawal.  Skipping it was not intentional at first, I fell asleep one night before I took it so started trying to fall asleep on my own.  Seems like every other night I can but the next night I lie awake til about 11 and then I take the mirtazapine to get some sleep and am back up at 4.  Can’t seem to figure out what the difference is why I cannot fall asleep what seems like every other night, not sure if cymbalta is still playing into it, or trimming the marijuana dose is doing something there.

 

will keep update when I have news from the scan.  Thank you all again for the positive thoughts, they are very much appreciated.

[fishinghat]

One step at a time. Peace and good health to you. God bless.

[invalidusername]

I tell you, the NHS would never do even half of what you have mentioned in that last post. I really don't know where people get the idea that the NHS is a good thing...

 

Will be thinking of you mimi. Small steps as Hat said.

 

IUN

[mimi10]

First I would like to thank you guys for your kind thoughts and prayers, results of scan came back and doc says things appear stable.  Some lymph nodes are enlarged but have been that way since after chemo and may alway be that way.  What a relief.

 

now I think I need some more of your knowledge,  I’m not sure if you are familiar with mirtazapine, but I have been using it for about 8 weeks now for insomnia.  The past week or so I have fallen asleep at night before taking it but I have not been able to fall asleep the following night without taking it, so have been taking it every other night for about a week or so. However it seems like the nights I do take it I do not sleep very well, only about 4 or 5 hours and I feel bad the fiollowing day, tired, nauseous and jittery.  I’m looking for ideas on why this may be occurring.  Because it’s every other night, might this be withdrawal because my body sees it as a dose reduction but don’t understand why I would feel bad the day after I take it and not the day after I go without it.  Not sure if I should take it every night whether I need it or not or if I should stop it altogether and try using trazodone on the nights I can’t sleep.  I was on trazodone originally for the insomnia but was only getting about 3 hours sleep on it so doc switched to mirtazapine.  At first I was getting 6 or 7 hours with the mirtazapine but only for the first couple weeks.  I was looking for a mirtazapine group like this one with knowledgeable informative supporters but haven’t found any.  One site I found before I found this one was an antidepressant group and I did not find them at all supportive or helpful.  Well wanted to throw that out their and see if you guys have any advice that may be helpful and would be most appreciated.  Hope you guys are doing well and thanks again for the thoughts and prayers.

[fishinghat]

That is such fantastic news mimi. Lets throw a party tonight!!

 

Some info from the ebook on mirtazapine...

 

 

REMERON (mirtazapine) Tablets are rapidly and completely absorbed following oral administration and have a half-life of about 20 to 40 hours.

 

 

Following oral administration, peak plasma concentrations are reached within about 2 hours.

 

Discontinuation Symptoms

There have been reports of adverse reactions upon the discontinuation of REMERON (mirtazapine) Tablets (particularly when abrupt), including but not limited to the following: dizziness, abnormal dreams, sensory disturbances (including paresthesia and electric shock sensations), agitation, anxiety, fatigue, confusion, headache, tremor, nausea, vomiting, and sweating, or other symptoms which may be of clinical significance. The majority of the reported cases are mild and self-limiting. Even though these have been reported as adverse reactions, it should be realized that these symptoms may be related to underlying disease.

Patients currently taking REMERON should NOT discontinue treatment abruptly, due to risk of discontinuation symptoms. At the time that a medical decision is made to discontinue treatment with REMERON, a gradual reduction in the dose, rather than an abrupt cessation, is recommended.

 

It is unclear whether or not tolerance develops to the somnolent effects of REMERON. 

 

Abrupt discontinuation

Abrupt discontinuation of mirtazapine should be avoided when possible. Adverse effects have been reported upon discontinuation of the drug including nausea, vomiting, agitation, sensory disturbances, sweating, and headache.

 

With the max serum concentration being reached after 2 hours that is when you should be the sleepiest. 

 

"However it seems like the nights I do take it I do not sleep very well, only about 4 or 5 hours and I feel bad the fiollowing day, tired, nauseous and jittery." The next day your blood plasma levels are still very high but dropping. This would indicate that these symptoms are probably a side effect. I will check the FDA information and be back soon

[fishinghat]

This is the best list I could find...

 

Mirtazapine side effects (Mayo Clinic)

 

More common

1. Constipation 

2. dizziness 

3. drowsiness 

4. dry mouth 

5. increased appetite 

6. weight gain 

 

Less common

1. Abdominal or stomach pain 

2. abnormal dreams 

3. back pain 

4. dizziness or fainting when getting up suddenly from a lying or sitting position 

5. increased need to urinate 

6. increased sensitivity to touch 

7. increased thirst 

8. low blood pressure 

9. muscle pain 

10. nausea 

11. sense of constant movement of self or surroundings 

12. trembling or shaking 

13. vomiting 

14. weakness 

Other side effects not listed may also occur in some patients. If you notice any other effects, check with your healthcare professional.

 

These side effects don't really match your symptoms on the day after you take it except the nausea. What dose are you on? 15 mg?

[mimi10]

Thanks you for such a prompt response.  My dose has always been 7.5, I cut the 15mg tablet in half.

 

I am very unsure as how to proceed, whether to continue as I have been, or take it every night whether I need it for sleep or not, or if I should just stop it and try to use trazodone again for nights I can’t fall asleep.  I can’t figure out any reason why I can fall asleep on my own every other night and not every night and why I feel worse the day after I take the mirtazapine when it would seem I should feel better having had taken it.  I am so very confused at this point.

 

on a very high note, today was freedom day for my daughter, two weeks since her second covid vaccine.  She is married and her husband has very serious health issues so they had quarantined at home for the past year, I have only gotten to see her a few times when weather permitted, outside, with masks at a safe distance.  Today I got to go to her home, which is less than a five minute drive from mine, for a visit and was greeted as I got out of my car with one of the best hugs I have ever gotten.  I have missed her so much this past year because she is not only my daughter but my best friend.  Her birthday is the middle of this month and it’s a big one, 40, and I am so glad that she will be able to come into my home for dinner for this one, last year it was in quarantine.  

[fishinghat]

"I can’t figure out any reason why I can fall asleep on my own every other night and not every night and why I feel worse the day after I take the mirtazapine when it would seem I should feel better having had taken it.  I am so very confused at this point."

 

I fully agree.

 

Being able to see your daughter again is wonderful. It should help you deal with your stress a lot.

[mimi10]

Hat, I see that I leave both of us confused, not unusual for me but highly unusual for you, my answer guy. Just a thought, maybe they are withdrawal symptoms I am having vs side effects, maybe the every other night constitutes a dose reduction of the mirtazapine,

 Do you have any thoughts on how I should proceed, mirtazapine every night needed or not,  mirtazapine when needed for sleep,  forget the mirtazapine and use trazodone when needed for sleep.  I don’t know what kind of withdrawal mirtazapine will have after being on 7.5 every night for about six weeks and then every other night for about 2 weeks.  Any thoughts would be much appreciated.  If anyone else has any thoughts please chime in and share your thoughts, frog, IUN, anyone.

[fishinghat]

Well if you take it every night and the symptoms are from side effects trhey will worsen. If you take it every third night and trhe symptoms worsen it will be withdrawal due to the up and down of serum levels.

 

Both  mirtazapine and trazodone  can be used for sleep and I really don't have a preference. There is no information on the body building up tolerance to mirtazapine.

 

Any withdrawal should fall in the uncomfortable stage for a month or two but certainly much less than most antidepressants.

 

I may do some digging into this issues later today.

[fishinghat]

I did some reading through posts from other members on mirtazapine. I think you will find their comments interesting. When considering the possible side effects, withdrawal or effectiveness it becomes apparent that it varies a lot from person to person.

 

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Feeling Suicidal. Not Sure If I Have Any Options Left. 

Posted by Guest_NotMyself_* on 07 June 2019 - 11:32 AM in Weaning Off Cymbalta 

Hi ForLyla, fellow sleep deprivation sufferer here. Be careful with Mirtazapine. I’ve only known two people to get on well with it. The rest had the same as me; insatiable appetite and rapid weight gain (I believe it was conjured up as a treatment for anorexics!), increasing breathlessness and extreme joint pain. Before I got off it I could barely get up the stairs to my flat. It was an awful drug for me, but like I say, it does work for some. 

 

https://www.cymbalta...e-12#entry84981

Detailed info on Mirtazapine.

 

Posted by 73Slash on 18 August 2018 - 04:21 AM in ARE YOU NEW HERE? Words from the wise about Cymbalta 

I know I’m sounding dramatic but I’m already going through the most difficult experience of my life right now BEFORE mirtazapine gave me life threatening side effects which I had to the stop cold turkey and take cymbalta. The withdrawal from mirtazapine, the relapse of clinical depression and the start up side effects of Cymbalta was a whole new level of hell I don’t even know how I survived and now I’m just realising this is far from over and is probably about to get a whole lot worse

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/23661283

Acute treatment of mirtazapine impaired road-tracking performance and increased sleepiness, but sedative effects disappeared under repeated administrations. Trazodone did not affect driving performance or cognitive function under acute or repeated administrations

 

Posted by whosthat on 24 April 2018 - 10:21 PM in What are you feeling? 

...the last prescription i took was mirtazapine and had the most horrible of highs for 2 days. felt like i had to kill myself it was so bad. not like i wanted to. but only that the "pain" was so bad that i felt i had no other way. thought the actual symptoms are hard to describe it was like having no control, like my mind was completely gone. i was at its mercy. not that i'm not now, but here i can at least try to rationalize and console myself. it took away the "me" in my mind almost. very odd and horrible feeling. oddly it's an anti-psychotic.

 

Posted by laurieboo on 27 April 2017 - 06:45 PM in ARE YOU NEW HERE? Words from the wise about Cymbalta 

I used to take a sliver of mirtazapine (like quarter or less of a 5mg tab..i'm so sensitive) to help sleep (and it supposedly boosts the effects of cymbalta). The past few nights i've take a tiny bit..and I think that has curbed the headaches and nausea (not sure if that's coincidence or not)..but at least it helps with the insomnia.

 

Posted by PtldFrank on 08 April 2016 - 10:37 PM in Weaning Off Cymbalta 

I'm pretty sure this is drug related. From what I've read RLS doesn't affect the arms (I get an itchy torso to boot).

I first got RLS while taking Remeron (Mirtazapine). It would hit a couple hours after I took a dose and last for about an hour. But it wouldn't wake me if I went straight to sleep after taking a pill. Go figure. I remember one time in a movie theater having to stand (and squirm) in the back row because I couldn't sit still.

 

Posted by FiveNotions on 30 November 2014 - 10:28 AM in Cymbalta in the News 

Recognising and managing antidepressant discontinuation symptoms

Advances in Psychiatric Treatment, 2007

http://apt.rcpsych.o...t/13/6/447.full

"Antidepressant discontinuation (withdrawal) symptoms were first reported in association with imipramine (Mann & MacPherson, 1959; Andersen & Kristiansen, 1959), the first tricyclic antidepressant (TCA), shortly after it entered clinical use. These symptoms occur with all classes of antidepressant, including the TCAs, monoamine oxidase inhibitors (MAOIs), selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs), serotonin and noradrenaline reuptake inhibitors (SNRIs) and miscellaneous others such as mirtazapine, a noradrenergic and specific serotonergic antidepressant (NaSSA). A PubMed review conducted when preparing this article identified reports of discontinuation symptoms with 25 antidepressants. . . "

 

Posted by h2oinCA on 24 October 2013 - 09:36 PM in Medical Support 

He (Doctor) IMMEDIATELY got defensive and told me that his approach to weaning patients off of drugs IS more gradual and conservative than what is the norm for the industry. Sensing my resolve, he agreed to develop a Taper Program for both the Cymbalta and Mirtazapine, one at a time. He selected Mirtazapine to taper first (although I chose to taper Cymbalta first so I could continue to get decent sleep w/Mirtazapine while tapering off Cymbalta). Needless to say, I did NOT tell him I'd already quit Cymbalta!

His 'gradual taper' approach for my 15mg daily Mirtazapine dose is....Cut 15mg pills in half and take 1/2 pill every night for one week. Then stop taking it. MY Taper Program will be to take 75% of the usual dose for a week, then 50% for a week, then 25% for a week, and then stop, three times the duration of my doc's plan.

 

Posted by sk8mom on 21 June 2013 - 07:55 PM in What are you feeling? 

I am now two weeks off remeron (mirtazapine) and doing pretty well, 

[fishinghat]

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Posted by chimera on 05 June 2013 - 08:25 AM in ARE YOU NEW HERE? Words from the wise about Cymbalta 

Prozac does help some people with this, due to its much longer life in the body- thus easing both withdrawal from that itself, plus simmering down withdrawal from other meds. I used it myself to come off Mirtazapine, which was a fairly pain free withdrawal considering. keep us posted!

 

Posted by chimera on 24 May 2013 - 03:40 PM in ARE YOU NEW HERE? Words from the wise about Cymbalta 

slowly slowly! one thing at a time. as said, get off the Mirtazapine at the rate you're comfortable with (I know everyone reacts differently sensitivity-wise to different meds, I was ok coming off Mirtazapine but I know others have had problems, and I have had problems with others. individual thing really). only after you've stabilised, do the Cymbalta. trouble is with the Mirtazapine, it works great for sleep for a while, then starts to not be as effective, but yes you'll notice a bit of an insomnia thing going on for a bit after.

 

Posted by sk8mom on 23 May 2013 - 08:26 PM in ARE YOU NEW HERE? Words from the wise about Cymbalta 

I have been browsing these forums for a couple of weeks now, and I learned a lot from all of you... here is my story, I suffered a major depression in the spring of 2007, I hate medication so I did not want to take anything, but after about 2 months of suffering from major anxiety, depression and insomnia i caved in and started effexor, bad, bad reaction (insomnia worsened and anxiety too)...I was then switched to remeron (mirtazapine) 15mg for one week and then I had to go up to 30mg...I had no side effects on remeron and felt a lot better on 15mg, did not want to go up but the doctor insisted I had to take 30mg, I began to have side effects like paresthesia (?), tingling on my head, more anxiety, eventually it stopped but I remember it lasted a long time...

 

Posted by sk8mom on 23 May 2013 - 08:26 PM in ARE YOU NEW HERE? Words from the wise about Cymbalta 

I have been slowly weaning off mirtazapine since summer 2011..took me one year to go from 30 to 15mg...(my body is VERY sensitive), and I am now on about 3 mg....I am just cutting the pills as best as i can...no bad witdrawal for now, except a bit of anxiety (but very tolerable) and not very good sleep...for a week or so after I reduce...but not in the past month I have reduced from about 7.5 mg to 3-4mg and my sleep is getting worse...only slept from 11-3 last night ...Now I want to get rid of mirtazapine and start bead counting to get off cymbalta...

 

Posted by starryblue on 11 August 2009 - 07:11 PM in What are you feeling? 

So far nothing good to say about the all-new Mirtazapine in my system; clearly it doesn't help much with Day One withdrawal. The good news is that it does help with sleeping and bedtime's fast approaching.

 

Posted by Guest_gardenlady_* on 14 February 2018 - 04:49 PM in Weaning Off Cymbalta

 I've taken Prozac, Paxil, Lexapro, Zoloft and Pristiq with no problem...either in bridging or tolerating.  The only one I couldn't tolerate is Remeron as it gave me restless leg syndrome. 

 

. all summer 2016 and fall I was at about 10mg of cymbalta and still doing well, during the fall I went as low as about 4mg of cymbalta - 15 mg of remeron...although I had a lot on my plate working full time, full time single mom of two teenage girls, away a lot on the road for work or my girl's competitive sports etc.. In December 2016 I started to get really tired, low energy, low mood and a little anxiety, I freaked a bit thinking the depression was coming back but could not stop work for many reasons,,, I continued that way until February (upping cymbalta to maybe 8-10 mg)...then I saw my doctor and was off work as of Feb 14th...(up remeron to about 22.5mg) then I saw my psychiatrist on feb 23rd...and he told me to bring back cymbalta to 30mg and remeron to 30mg... which I did (being scared of the depression coming back) BUT since then - I can't sleep... I used to sleep very well... now, I fall asleep around 11h00pm and wake up at 2h00am I have a lot of energy (probably too much for 3 hours of sleep).... after a week of this I started wondering if it's not too big of a jump for me ?? too much stimulis? or maybe it's just a coincidence but it feels like it's just too much

 

 Posted by sk8mom on 08 March 2017 - 11:52 AM in Weaning Off Cymbalta

I talked to the pharmacist who confirmed It very well might be,,, my doc is on vacation until monday, i wean down again much faster this time since it had only been a week I was back on 30 - took like 50 beads out first night then about 20 each night - I took  110 out last night (out of 275).... went back down to 15 remeron... still didn't sleep last night

[fishinghat]

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Posted by PtldFrank on 24 January 2016 - 08:39 PM in Weaning Off Cymbalta

Finally, a year ago, I started up with another psychiatrist who quickly told me how hard it is to get off Cymbalta -- so they're not all clueless    Last year she helped me get off Remeron, which went very smoothly.

 

 Posted by TryinginFL on 03 November 2015 - 05:06 PM in Weaning Off Cymbalta

I have a dear friend who this past spring was trying to come off Remeron - She at first tried cold turkey, and she ended up in the psych ward for 5 days.  Really a mess.

When we talked, we commiserated that our withdrawal symptoms were very similar.  No motivation,  loss of memory and horrible anxiety, to name a few. 

 

 Posted by sk8mom on 01 December 2013 - 10:23 PM in Weaning Off Cymbalta

I have around 575 beads in my capsule and took out 87 tonight...I am now taking one a day out...I am very sensitive and don't want to take any chance to get withdrawal symptoms...my worst symptoms was insomnia and even if I had weaned of 30 mg of remeron since June...I started the remeron back about a month ago - just because I needed sleep and I think it helps my withdrawal (although I am only on about 3-4mg of remeron now and it does the trick...I figure since I did not have any major problems weaning from it, I will wean after my Cymbalta journey !)

 

 Posted by sk8mom on 11 September 2013 - 08:04 PM in ARE YOU NEW HERE? Words from the wise about Cymbalta

 I got some itching from the remeron withdrawal, but it was bearable and only for about 2 weeks...good luck !

 

Posted by sk8mom on 28 August 2013 - 04:34 PM in What are you feeling?

I did take remeron (about 4mg) for 3 nights in a row, but the last night I took it I woke up sunday morning around 9am and I forced myself to get up because I thought I would not sleep the next night, well after less then an hour I could not stay awake so I went back to bed and slept till almost noon...  I have not taking any since and slep well for the past 3 nights !!! 

 

Posted by sk8mom on 26 June 2013 - 07:00 PM in What are you feeling?

Well I slept good last night, not a full night but a lot better then I've slept in the past weeks, I went to bed around 10:30pm and slept well until about 7h45am ( I did wake up a few times during the night) but instead of my usual 4-5 hours, I probably slept close to 7 hours...I haven't taken anything to sleep yet...I am crossing my fingers that my brain is slowly getting use to falling asleep by itself...The remeron withdrawal is getting better (night sweats are over, so are the depression symptoms,) only a bit of anxiety here and there and the insomnia that are the major symptoms left..

 

Posted by sk8mom on 04 June 2013 - 09:15 PM in ARE YOU NEW HERE? Words from the wise about Cymbalta

Wow 8 years, I have been on it just over 4 years, and the most I have seen is five, I have not started weaning yet, but hopefully I will be ready soon, I am extreamely sensitive to meds and have been weaning remeron for the past 2 years, from 30 to 15 in one year and now from 15 tp about 2-3 in another year, it's a very long process for me But I don't want any horrible symptoms as I felt like crap for about 3-5 years of my life.

[mimi10]

Hat, thank you so much for the amazing research.  I’ve started reading it but will have to continue later.  Today is a really bad day again.  Night before last fell asleep on my own and slept decently, the weather was beautiful yesterday and I felt good so we invited our daughter and son-in-law to come over and have dinner out on the patio.  They came over around 3 and were here til 830.  It was a wonderful relaxing afternoon and evening.  After they left we straightened up and I headed up to bed about 915 because I had been up since 4 and was very tired.  My husband stayed downstairs to read for a bit.  I got into bed by 930 and could not fall asleep.  When my husband came up at 11 I took the 7.5 mirtazapine because I was not falling asleep even though I was tired, relaxed and comfortable.  I fell asleep about 1130 but woke up at 2 and unable to get back to sleep.  Again I laid there for hours tired, relaxed and comfortable but simply could not sleep.  Today I am nauseous, headache, tinnitus roaring and very tired.  I simply do not know what to do.  I do not have a clue how sleep is so different from one night to the next and I can’t figure out if mirtazapine is hurting or helping at this point.  When I first started on mirtazapine  it worked very well, was able to sleep 6 hours sometimes a little more and I felt slightly hungover the following morning but decent enough. Now I feel good on the days following the nights I fall asleep on my own without the mirtazapine, which is usually every other night.  The following night I am unable to get to sleep and resort to,the mirtazapine after a couple hours of tossing and turning and being unable to fall asleep, then don’t sleep much at all and feel terrible the following day. We are supposed to go to the beach for a few days starting Wednesday and I am unsure if we should even go, when I feel this bad the day after very little sleep I would probably rather be at home than away.  I feel absolutely horrible today, worse than any of the cymbalta withdrawal days and I simply don’t know what to do.  I will finish reading the wonderful information you so generously researched and put together for me and perhaps find some more insight as to what’s happening.  Thanks so much.

[mimi10]

Hat, after reading through the information you so kindly provided, and I do appreciate the intense effort it must have been to find all that information, I kind of think it may be withdrawal that is happening.  I guess since for the last maybe 10 days I have been taking 7.5 miratzipine every other day it’s like a taper of my dose. Although I still can’t fathom why I feel worse the day after taking the dose rather than the day after I skipped the dose.  But I think starting tonight I am going to take the 7.5 dose every night.  I don’t feel ready to taper off of it at this time.  I guess if a couple days go by and I’m not feeling and sleeping better I will have to decide whether to try a 15mg dose or get off of it whether I’m ready to or not.  If you have any thoughts to add be sure that they are always much much appreciated.  I value and respect your opinion immensely.  You have my many thanks for all you do for me and others like me struggling through withdrawals and side effects.  God bless and watch over you.

[fishinghat]

Thank you mimi. I think that is a good approach. Keep us posted.

[invalidusername]

Sorry for my late input on this. The half-life of miratzipine  is said to be between 20-40 hours - quite why it has so much variance I am not sure, but if you are closer to the 20 hours, then this could easily be a case of withdrawal, and therefore would be something that you would expect to improve with continued dosing, but perhaps a slightly smaller dose if you are currently taking a dose which appears to work better the second day when the plasma level will have been reduced. Logically, if you reduce that dose so the plasma level matches that of the second day on the 48 hour dose, then this would be a potential solution. 

 

However, if this does not show benefit, then we would need to look elsewhere as to a solution.

[mimi10]

IUN, thanks for yours thoughts, so much appreciated.  Late input is better than no input, we all have lives outside of this forum.  I take the mirtazapine usually about 930 pm and then I was skipping the next day and not taking it again until the following evening about 930 again so I was actually taking a dose every 48 hours so it probably was withdrawal.  I just couldn’t seem to understand that the days I felt worse were the days after taking it.  I also could not figure out why I was falling asleep on my own the evenings I did not take it and usually slept a little better as well.  I don’t know, these drugs and their side effects and withdrawals on top of my chemo brain, it’s all just a mass of confusion.  I really wanted to just stop it yesterday but I rethought it because there is a lot going on right now with grandkids ball games, daughters bday coming up soon and my husband wanting to get away for a couple days.  I also figure it will give my brain a little more time to settle down after getting off cymbalta about 2 months ago and trimming my marijuana dose down to half, it’s now at 10cbd and 5 THC and I plan on keeping that there for the foreseeable future.  However I would like to make another attempt at the mirtazapine, just hoping the insomnia has settled down by now.  I just don’t feel like myself on any of these drugs, I feel foggy, slow and like my head is in the clouds, my thought process feels off. Again, thanks for coming to my aid with your much appreciated input.  I hope you are doing well, I missed you while you were absent.  

[mimi10]

I am really confused and need some opinions or advice or something here.  I went back to taking 7.5mg at night.  Monday night I slept decently followed by a good day but pretty fatigued.  Tuesday night I took mirtazapine again and slept decently again, maybe 5 to 6 hours and yesterday was a good day but a lot of fatigue.  My husband I left in the morning and drove down to his brothers condo at the beach for a few nights.  We had a good day yesterday but last night I again took the mirtazapine but couldn’t fall asleep.  Monday and Tuesday I took it about 9 and was asleep by 1030 and slept off and on until about 5.  Last night I took it again about 9 but didn’t fall asleep until about midnight then woke up 230 and was unable to fall back asleep.  I was tired, comfortable and relaxed but just couldn’t transition to sleep.  I dont know why this happens frequently.  Sometimes I’m not really sure if it is helping with my insomnia or not.  Do you think perhaps I should try updosing to 15mg or should I consider getting off mirtazapine.  It is very difficult to get through these days with little or no sleep.  Today there is a big arts and crafts festival outdoors at the inlet which we are supposed to go to, I will drag myself there but it’s just not enjoyable having to push through the day with no relief from the fatigue.  Sorry to vent but I am getting so tired of being so tired and yet unable to sleep.

BTW I posted to another forum on mirtazapine to see if they had any ideas and all I got was being chastised for getting off cymbalta too fast and told to let them know when I want to get off mirtazapine and they’ll give me a taper schedule but they don’t do anything other than that.  How disappointing.

[fishinghat]

Your comment about going to 15 mg of mirtazapine has a valid point. The 15 mg dose is considered the minimum effective dose and that may be why it does not provide sustainable benefit but there is so much variability in how people react to mirtazapine it is hard to say. Only one way to find out...use it for a few days and see...but the risk is a withdrawal if it doesn't work. 

 

The key here is the Cymbalta withdrawal causing anxiety which prevents normal sleep from occuring. There are numerous supplements/drugs mentioned in the ebook that members have taken in order to control anxiety and sleep better. Maybe one of them can help.

[mimi10]

Hat, I really don’t know what to think or do.  Doc attributed the insomnia to anxiety even though I told him I really didn’t feel anxious.  I thought the insomnia was from all the antibiotics and health issues. I have never really felt anxiety except when tapering from these drugs, and I can tell it’s chemical anxiety because nothing settles it down, goes away when it’s ready to.  I don’t think the cymbalta is playing a part in anything anymore.  It is just so bad that the sleep is so erratic and unpredictable.  When I wake up in the middle of the night and am trying to fall back asleep I do not feel anxious, I am tired, comfortable and relaxed just wondering why I’m not sleeping.  It doesn’t even frustrate me as badly as it did because it’s out of my control so I just continue to lie there and rest until morning.  I think taking the dose every other night was causing withdrawal effects from the mirtazapine so I was hoping going back to taking it every night would fix it.  It worked well for the first maybe 5 or 6 weeks but after that seemed like it wasn’t working so well anymore.  How many nights do you think I would have to take it at 15 to see if that helps and still be able to go back down to 7.5 without incurring withdrawal.  If that was withdrawal from alternate night dosing, it was really difficult, more so than the cymbalta taper.  I would like to just get off the mirtazapine and see what happens but the withdrawal effect I find most bothersome is the insomnia and I wasn’t able to sleep hardly at all prior to starting the mirtazapine.  I don’t see my primary doc again until early June but I could message him and go in earlier, I’m just not sure what he would do, he doesn’t feel real comfortable working in this arena of drugs.  He just says it’s all guess work and trial and error but I’m the one living with the trial and error.  Sorry for rambling so much but I can’t seem to figure this out, I thought taking the mirtazapine in the beginning was a good option as it helped with sleep a lot in the first several weeks, then not so much.  

[fishinghat]

I understand mimi. There are a lot of supplements which can help with sleep as well as some prescription meds that do not have withdrawal. Are you up to that? At this point there is little to lose.