Need Help To Finish This
#301
Posted 02 April 2022 - 04:07 PM
#302
Posted 02 April 2022 - 05:06 PM
Thanks iUN, I will keep,kratom in mind, I already use a medical marijuana, cbd and THC gummy.
last night was horrible, almost 3 weeks off and things are getting even worse. I went to bed at 930 because I was exhausted from little sleep the night before, I took my marijuana gummy and put a few drops of sublingual melatonin under my tongue at 930. At 11 still lying there awake and still unable to sleep I took a baclofen and I was still lying there awake at 2 when I tried a trazodone and still nothing. No sleep at all last night and I haven’t been able to sleep during the day no matter how tired I am since chemo a few years back. I’ve tried Benadryl, magnesium and a couple other otc sleep aids with no success. I know you guys have tried and tried to find a solution for me and I appreciate it. I still just had to come and vent because I am so frustrated by this. I had to go on mirtazapine due to insomnia after trying several other drugs with no success. Mirtazapine was the only thing that allowed me to sleep for about 6 hours at first but a few months in it wasn’t helping so much anymore for sleep and had too many side effects.
You have nothing to lose by trying Kratom. I just hope that it does something for you. A quick 101... the darker the leaf, the more it will relax you - a white leaf (or vein) is for depression and gives a boost of energy where needed and a red leaf is for anxiety and relaxation (and pain relief). You have yellow and green inbetween which gives a bit of both, but for your situation, you would do best for a red borneo or jungle deep (where available). It never fails to knock me out - or the wife (who suffers more with sleep than I). At worst, the wife gets about 6 or 7 hours sleep before she wakes and cannot sleep. If I take it, I can sleep for anything up to 9 hours or more!
It will relax you to a point that it makes you feel quite comforted (it is after all, a mild opiod). This is why I state clearly that it can be addictive in the wrong hands. The last thing I want to do is to suggest this to someone who then gets attached to it. Use your own judgement. I do not have a very addictive personality so I can take it or leave it most times. My doses have never increased, so I know I am safe.
If in doubt, please talk to me. I have done a multitude of research and it can be an amazing thing used under the right direction.
IUN
#303
Posted 06 April 2022 - 06:49 AM
Oh guys, things have not improved at all, maybe worse. Sleep is gone completely now. I have an appt with my pcp tomorrow morning because I simply cannot go on getting 2 hours sleep a night. Last night about 10 I took a soma to help with the pain and sleep nut while it helped reduce the pain some I did not sleep at all. Finally about 230 still awake I took a trazodone which helped me fall asleep rather quickly but I woke up at 4 so it really only gets me an hour or two of sleep. Pcp said some of his ideas are go back on mirtazapine, try ambient cr or try amitriptyline which may help with pain and sleep. We will talk about it tomorrow morning and decide which way to proceed. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated as I don’t know which option to lean towards. I have now been off mirtazapine 24 days.
#304
Posted 12 April 2022 - 06:15 PM
Hi mimi...
How have you been getting on with this? What was discussed?
I have never been a fan of allopathic sleep drugs. I have been in a similar situation more than once and I went with Zolpidem. It was the only thing that worked before me before I knew about Kratom. But it came with a whole bunch of side effects, but it did give me some days where I was at my wits end like you.
Hat is far better versed with Z-drugs and similar - all I would offer is natural resources... Really feel for you
IUN
#305
Posted 13 April 2022 - 07:59 AM
Sorry mimi, missed this post somehow.
Ambient cr, as IUN stated, is one of the infamous Z drugs. It acts in the same way as a benzo and can be just addictive with a tough withdrawal. It also has a strong chance of sleep walking activities such as driving, eating, sex and much more.
Amitriptyline is only slightly better. A tough withdrawal with sexual side effects, usually weight gain, and more. I am going to dig deeper today and see what I can find as another option but that is a long shot.
#306
Posted 13 April 2022 - 08:37 AM
Doc opted for ambien cr and sent in a script which the pharmacy could not fill, said they had to order the med for me so I did not get the script until yesterday. I took one 6.25mg last night when I was still lying awake at 11 after a no sleep night the day before and fell asleep about 1130, slept through until 5 which is the most sleep I’ve gotten in a long time. My sleep tracker said it was all light sleep, no rem, no deep but still better than lying awake alll night. I am now one month off the mirtazapine and some things are just beginning to settle so I am hoping for improvement soon. Thanks guys for being around, appreciate it.
came back this afternoon, having a terrible day, stomach pain, diarrhea, nausea and no appetite at all, could it be the ambien or still withdrawal getting worse.
#307
Posted 13 April 2022 - 03:38 PM
IUN, some more info on kratom please, I am on the verge of losing it. I am on medical marijuana, can they be taken together. Where do you get kratom, is it legal, is it expensive. Are there side effects, are there withdrawal from it. I also take a statin for,high cholesterol, and methenamine mandelate for previous chronic utis.
#308
Posted 13 April 2022 - 05:01 PM
Doubtful it is the Ambien. Possible but unusual.
If you can, you might try an Ambien every other night. This would make it easier to come off of later You might also try the Ambien at bedtime and then if you wake early like 2 or 3 AM try sublingual melatonin and see if it will give you another hour or so. Ambien, like benzos, block REM sleep but like you say it is better than staying awake all night.
#309
Posted 14 April 2022 - 07:05 AM
Hat, I really screwed up, couldn’t sleep last night and by mistake took a 7.5 mirtazapine instead of ambien. Did not sleep well at all, can I just go back to zero Mirtazapine. I am having a great deal of physical pain in the right hip, lower back and groin, cannot possible sleep through it. Having pudendal nerve block tomorrow and see orthopedist next week.
#310
Posted 14 April 2022 - 09:20 AM
Bad timing. I would go back to zero on the mirtazapine if it were me. I am sure you realize that things may be pretty unsettled with the taking of the mirtazapine as well as stress over the upcoming procedure.
I should be back shortly with some more thoughts on your sleep issues.
#311
Posted 14 April 2022 - 10:03 AM
#312
Posted 14 April 2022 - 10:30 AM
Hat, thanks for the wealth of information. I don’t know what is happening but today I am in a very dark place, I am very depressed. Makes no sense to me because I have never been an anxious or depressed person. Is this normal when I have been off mirtazapine for a little over a month not counting my screwup last night. I have never experienced a darkness like this over me, went on mirtazapine because of insomnia. I have also been very nauseous this past week and struggle to eat anything, I’ve lost 6 pounds this week which I can’t really afford to lose. Can this be possible for all this to start up at one month off.
#313
Posted 14 April 2022 - 11:06 AM
The single dose of mirtazapine is likely the cause of the sudden onset of depression but that should reduce in 24 to 48 hours.
Nausea and other digestive issues are not uncommon with coming off mirtazapine but that usually hits a few days after a drop in dose. You on the other hand have been off a while. Ginger products are very good for nausea. A lot of women rely on it during pregnancy. Getting the nausea under control may help your appetite as well. Nausea, weight loss and extreme insomnia are common with coming off mirtazapine. You might need to turn to some protein drinks or such to help your calorie intake during this time.
#315
Posted 14 April 2022 - 03:01 PM
Sorry to be a pest today. I am going to look for that section in the ebook. I was at the senior center this afternoon for an afternoon of cards which I run as a volunteer for the center and really enjoy it and In the middle of it I had a full blown panic attack which I have never had panic attacks. Is this still the mirtazapine withdrawal this far out, I am at a loss as to why I feel so bad after a month.
#316
Posted 14 April 2022 - 03:51 PM
It is very probably from the one mirtazapine tablet you took yesterday(?) and now it is wearing off. I have seen these types of reactions in a great many Cymbalta withdrawals when someone accidently takes a much higher dose and then realizes their mistake. It usually takes a few days for the body to settle back down to where it was before the accidental dose. Don't feel too bad about this, it happens to most of us. It will pass.
#317
Posted 15 April 2022 - 08:25 AM
Hi Mimi,
I am on medical marijuana, can they be taken together.
Yes - there are no known issues, but I would suggest taking them apart from each other so that you can effectively judge the effects independently from the other.
Where do you get Kratom?
There are many places all over the States (sorry I am assuming you are in the US), but I have always recommended Kats Botanicals. They were one of the first to offer the sale of Kratom, participate in fair trade regulations, and actively support the work of the American Kratom Association.
Is it expensive?
Comparatively speaking, no - especially as you take medical grade marijuana. You can typically buy in 50g, 100g, 250g and 500g - the more you buy the cheaper but start with a sample. It is cheaper in the US that for me to ship it in from The Netherlands, but a typical dose sets me back around £1. So I would imagine a typical dose would be around $1. It depends on how much you need, but I would work on that budget.
Are there side effects, are there withdrawal from it?
I have helped probably about 50 people with Kratom - one had constipation issues and one got headaches. All of the others had no problems at all. The constipation user found it to outweigh the issue and just took some magnesium to counteract. The girl with the headaches tried some other veins, but alas, was the same and had to stop.
Please bear in mind that this is an opioid and naturally that follows that there may be withdrawal. Used for sleep, you will not "feel" the effects, so used only for this purpose, it is not used recreationally (which I do not condone).
I must suggest that you try it before using it for sleep as it will sure send you to sleep, but you need to make sure it will not cause any problems for you. You also need to get the right dose for you. So you WILL feel the effects of the Kratom, and it is very relaxing and kills off anxiety no problem!
I also take a statin for,high cholesterol, and methenamine mandelate for previous chronic utis.
I also have to take statins, but have you been able to look into Inclisiran? This replaces your daily pills with bi-annual injections and are much better. But again, you should not find any issues here.
Is it legal?
Kratom is legal in over 90% of the States thanks for the work of the AKA. Check this map to make sure you fall in that boundary - despite being a couple of years old, the status remains the same as shown;
https://www.sprouthe...te-1280x909.png
What should I order?
Regarding what you should order, it will for sure need to be a red vein. I am very jealous of US residents as you have much more choice that we do here in the EU! It is also very much a subjective experience. I have found Red Bourneo to be excellent, but Maeng Da not so much, but that is not to say what works best with you. In general, any red will have similar effects, but you will find one to be the best fit for you. The stuff that Kats offer I would love to try! But we cannot get the same suppliers over here.
How do I prepare it?
Get an accurate measure. A tumbler mixed with 50/50 of juice/water. Kratom is very bitter - pineapple juice kills the taste well. But anything works well. To prepare, put your dose of Kratom powder into the tumbler with your juice/water mix and wait 20 minutes. It will absorb, taste better and potentiate the mix.
How do I know what the best dose is for me?
Start with 2,5gm. If after an hour you do not feel as much as you would like, add another gram. If this is still not enough (unlikely), next day start with 3gm - add another gram after an hour again if not enough. Then keep adding half a gram until you get the dose right. Most will find something between 3-5gm to be ideal. But leave 24 hours between these doses.
I hope this helps well. I have been taking it for a long time - as has my wife. I have also seen and heard the success stories from those that I have helped. BUT... your safety is my utmost concern. Please DO start low. 2,5gm will not harm you. I know of users who have (foolishly) got to 30gm+ a day to satisfy their need. This is awful. The most I have had in a day was 10gm when I had a two very bad consecutive seizures. I was fine. It is almost impossible to overdose as you will be asleep far before you will take too much.
Hat - with your permission, I could add this "how-to" into another section and/or to the book. As we collaborate, I will seek your guidance on this and there will be no offence taken f you would rather it not be noted for inclusion to the eBook.
Mimi - please feel free to ask me anything else. I have done a substantial amount of research relating to Kratom. I will help you as best I can.
Take care and please let me know what you decide and how you get on.
IUN
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#318
Posted 24 May 2022 - 06:41 AM
Hi guys,
been a while but I am back with more problems. I’ve now been off mirtazapine a little over two months and things are improving greatly. Sleep is still shaky. Doc started me on amitriptyline to try to help with the nerve pain and sleep. He started me on 5mg for 4 days then up to 10mg. After 10 days at 10mg he felt that I needed to come off due to overwhelming daytime fatigue and increased heart rate which he felt would only worsen as dose increased. His instructions were to go back to 5 for a week, then try to cut that in half and do 2.5 for a week, then off. I was wondering since I’ve now been on close to 3 weeks, 4 days at 5, 10 days at 10mg and now 4 more days at 5mg, maybe I should just try to stop instead of having more exposure to the drug and possibly habituating to it. What do you think, hat?
#319
Posted 24 May 2022 - 05:00 PM
I agree with your doctor. You have been on it a short enough time that a few extra days to wean should be OK.
On top of that why come off one sleep aide with withdrawal just to put you on another sleep aide with withdrawal. Why not something like hydroxyzine for sleep? No withdrawal with it.
#320
Posted 26 May 2022 - 11:08 AM
Thanks hat, now 6 days at 5mg, tonight I’ll try the 2.5. Doc chose amitriptyline to try to help with the nerve pain I’ve had since chemo which has started to get worse this past year and causes a lot of sleep disturbance. Pain doc wants to try a sacral neuromodulator which is scheduled for a trial implant June 7. I’ve already tried neurontin, cymbalta and lyrica for the nerve pain and none have helped. Also had some nerve blocks and Botox injections and they have not helped either. Thanks again for your help hat, I know I can always count on you.
#322
Posted 29 May 2022 - 06:36 AM
Hi Mimi,
I am right there with Hat - the painkillers can be with worst in terms of addiction and thus carry with them a nightmare withdrawal.
Regarding the amitriptyline, I would still proceed with caution. Although you have had a limited time on it, not everyone can stomach a quick turnaround after even a short term on the drug. Listen to your body as it can quickly turn being a tricyclic. They can still be very useful in some cases, but extremely difficult in others.
#323
Posted 23 July 2022 - 12:47 PM
Hey hat,
back again. Amitriptyline didn’t work out, too many side effects, been off for a while now without issue. I’ve been trying to get off the marijuana gummy and am really struggling. It’s a gummy that weighs 4 grams and is 20cbd/10thc, been on it about five years every night. About a year ago I gradually reduced the size of the gummy to half, weight of 2 grams, and have been using that for the past year. A couple months ago I started trying to reduce more with hopes of stopping and these cuts have been brutal, I’ve been going very small and slow and am currently at a gummy weight of 1.4grams so roughly 7cbd/3.5thc. The last cut was one month ago and I’ve not been able to stabilize, still anxious, nauseous, no appetite and little sleep, previous cuts I felt better after about 2 weeks. Things are really bad from early morning,like 4 or 5am, til about 4 in the afternoon when they settle down and I can finally eat a meal. Take the dose about 9pm, fall asleep about 930 and always up by 3 with body vibrations and muscle aches and pains. I was wondering if you thought dividing the little piece of gummy inhalf and dosing every 12 hours would make things better or if it would only add to the withdrawals.
I have a doctor appt on Monday and was going to ask him about going back on mirtazapine or trying lexapro because for all of these things to be lasting this long after a dose reduction makes me think maybe it’s an anxiety issue and not all withdrawal. Since insomnia is a big issue for me I am a little afraid of lexapro since I see that can be a startup, but in the past Mirtazapine only helped with sleep for the first few months, although I was always on a dose of 7.5 and never went up to 15 which I believe is considered the therapeutic dose. Withdrawal from the mirtazapine was brutal, don’t know about lexapro. The insomnia is still the absolute worst, as last night I didn’t sleep at all because of body aches and pains, mostly hip and back and those disturbing body virbations that go on almost all night. I’m very confused as it doesn’t seem like anyone really has much info on the marijuana withdrawal, many sites mostly detox centers say it’s mild and doesn’t last more than 2 weeks but some say it can be severe and last a couple months. I don’t really want to medicate if it is withdrawal but I also don’t know how much longer I can continue feeling like this. I would very much appreciate your thoughts. I also reached out to iUN a couple of times through messaging since this relates to marijuana and not cymbalta but haven’t heard back from him, I know he is busy and has been struggling as well.
#325
Posted 27 July 2022 - 06:58 AM
Well hat, thanks for the try. I saw my doc and he suggested pausing the marijuana taper and stay at the reduced dose and starting a low dose of lexapro, so I am on day 2 of 2.5mg lexapro, supposed to up it to 5 in a week or two. Doc thinks it’s more anxiety at this point than the marijuana withdrawal since my last cut in that was more than one month ago. Well I’m giving it a try, wish me luck as I am very nervous about this as I am taking the grandkids to the beach for a week first week of august and got to be up for it.
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#326
Posted 29 July 2022 - 06:31 AM
Hey hat. Day 4 on 2.5 lexapro and feeling pretty rough. Morning are hardest, nausea, tinnitus, anxiety which fades as day goes on. Sleep is still not good for me but it’s been bad for a long time, some night sweats now. Doc thinks the insomnia may have a stress/anxiety component to it and that’s why he started me on lexapro. I am guessing this is all lexapro startup I am experiencing. Does all this seem normal at this point of starting lexapro?
#328
Posted 04 August 2022 - 06:02 AM
Hat, seeking a little more of your knowledge and advice my friend. I took 2.5 lexapro for 6 days, then doc said to go up to 5 so I wet up to 5mg on Sunday night. I have had morning anxiety every morning which fades by afternoon since I started lexapro. Last night was 4th dose of 5mg, took it 9pm, fell asleep about 945 but then woke up about 1045 soaked in sweat and shaking all over, major panic attack. I have been dealing with some anxiety but panic attacks are not normal for me at all and extremely rare and drug induced. Is this normal startup with lexapro and will things settle down, I know it’s early on for seeing results yet but I wasn’t expecting this either. We are leaving for the beach with the kids tomorrow so I am concerned.
#330
Posted 07 August 2022 - 12:50 PM
Mimi,
My apologies for getting back to you. I had a notice that you sent a message, but I then realised that my message quota was 100% full.
You need to be so careful with MJ withdrawal - the anxiety and confusion that it can bring is very real indeed. You need to be so careful especially where there are other allopathic drugs involved.
I am not proud of it but I have been there first hand in trialing MJ whilst on other SSRI drugs and it does not bode well. You have to be so careful. My means of testing was for my father going through use fo MJ for his suffering with Parkinson's disease. The last thing I wanted was for him to get into further trouble as a result of trialing MJ.
I had to be so careful with what I did and once it is in the system, you need to be so careful how it is removed.
Do not forget that a lot of these other test take place once participants have removed themselves from all other allopathic drugs purely for the reason that there is no knowing what can following its wake. You need to be so careful and if you need to continue on the dose for longer than expected, the simply do that. Do not rush this as it will take you to a place that you never thought possible...
IUN
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