359 replies to this topic

[fishinghat]

If things aren't too bad I would just try to hang in there. It really depends on how you feel and if you think you can handle it.

[invalidusername]

Hi Mimi - your mirtazapine will be showing more of an issue with each smaller dose, so as Hat says, this is for sure withdrawal. Although your half life might be around 20 hours, the peak plasma level can typically be around 2-3 hours which is why you are finding the symptoms kick in when they do and as it reduces, the symptoms subside. So you reach the 10-12 hour mark and it all happens as your body is used to having more which will carry you through the extra hours to the next dose.

 

Forgive me not remembering the back story, but is there a reason why you take it at night? If you took it i the morning, you would at least keep a good plasma level during the day and sleep through the depleted hours?

 

You won't feel the effects of the drop for 3-4 days as this is how long it takes for the level to balance out. You still have reserves from the longer half life. 

 

I am not sure about the 0.6 after what you said a couple of days ago. Of course you want to ride it out as you want off this stuff. Everyone does. It is the last bit of the band aid, but once it is off, the whole wound is exposed and the real healing begins. There are no reserves left.

 

My advice is to really consider where you are today. If you think you can cope, then stay, but if there is any doubt, today would be the point to get back to 0.8 otherwise it will take longer for the level to get back to what it was....

 

IUN

[mimi10]

Thanks for the help guys.  I have been feeling ok, things are improving so I have been hanging at the .06 dose. 
IUN, I take the mirtazapine at night because it was prescribed for insomnia and it did help for the first few weeks and then not so much.  I have always had too many side effects on it so trying to get off.  I feel much better at these low doses than I did on the 7.5.  Most people complain of weight gain on it but it gave me so much nausea that I lost weight on it, which has been coming back since I got to these low doses.  I’m hopeful to be able to get off completely this time.  
thanks again guys, for the help, it is most appreciated.

[invalidusername]

Always happy to help - I really feel for you and hope that you come through this with minimal scars.

 

If you feel you are able to get sufficient sleep, them I would consider slowly moving the hours of the dose during the last of the withdrawal, but that said, if you are considering fast-tracking it, then leave as is. As this will only further confuse the system. If you feel you can release yourself from it sooner rather than later, then do so. Listen to your body. You are the best judge, but always make the decision from the toughest point of the day as that is the point that will only get worse. We all make rash decisions when things seem better during the day and it is not the way to go.

 

It is all too easy to get carried away in the final hour of the withdrawal and is often where people fall down. It is tough Mimi - we have all been there, but it is a small price to pay for everything you have been through. 

 

If you need help, you know where we are...

 

God Bless

[mimi10]

Hey guys,

im back again.  Thanks again for all the advice.  IUN, the way you advised about judging by the worst part of the day is exceptional, I never thought of it that way but makes so much sense.  I held on the dose of .6 and by day 12 I was feeling stable enough to go to .5.  This is day 5 of that dose and things so far seem like all other drops, starts up on day 4, gets worse until day 8 and then starts to get better.  We are leaving on Saturday so I have 5 more days to try to find stability and I’ve cut 2 weeks worth of .5 to take with me. Wishing you guys well and happy Valentine’s Day (do they have that in England).  Take care guys, stay safe, be back in a few weeks.

[mimi10]

Hey guys,

Been a few weeks, so here’s the update.  I went down to .3 dose and it was a speck, then on Saturday night when I picked the tiny speck up to take it, the tiny speck disintegrated so I figured why bother and just stopped.  Today is only day 3 since I stopped so I’m still waiting to see what develops.  I’ll keep you posted as to what’s happening.  Hope you guys are well, take care, stay safe.

[fishinghat]

Keeping our fingers crossed for you mimi.

[mimi10]

Been two weeks, still hanging in there but not easy.  Insomnia is horrible, I fall asleep about 10 but always wake up by 1130 and cannot get back to sleep.  At 1 I usually try something to help, I’ve been trying different things each night, trazodone, oxycodone, baclofen, melatonin and sometimes get another couple hours of sleep from 2 or 3 to about 5.  If I don’t take anything I don’t get anymore sleep after 1130. I have quite a few trazodone and melatonin but only a few baclofen and oxycodone pills. It’s miserable but I really don’t want to go back on mirtazapine.  I’m also still dealing with the usual, nausea, headache, tinnitus, lack of appetite and much back and hip pain.  I don’t get why I fall asleep and about 90 minutes later I wake up and cannot get back to sleep.

[fishinghat]

Hi mimi

 

It has been a while. Two weeks is a relatively short time for recovery from mirtazapine withdrawal.

 

As far as sleep is concerned have you tried Benadryl or sublingual liquid melatonin?  Both were very helpful with my insomnia during withdrawal. Sublingual means below the tongue. This is important because by placing a few drops under the tongue it is absorbed directly into the blood stream through the lining of the mouth and has a more immediate effect. Benadryl contains diphenhydramine which is an antihistamine often used in over-the-counter sleep aides. Of course, you need to be sure that neither of these compounds are incompatible with any other mediations you are using.

[mimi10]

Hat,

the melatonin I have is sublingual, I believe it’s the one you recommended to me quite a while ago and I only use a few drops when I wake up and can’t sleep, sometimes it seems to help but other times just makes me feel more tired but I still don’t sleep.  I have not tried Benadryl because in the past when I’ve use it I seem to get more wired up from it, but I can try it again.  I feel if I could get some decent sleep, even 5 hours, on a regular basis I could deal better with the rest of this crap I’m dealing with.  Besides what I already listed I also deal with some light anxiety, mainly in the morning, and diarrhea just about every morning as well.  I keep telling myself this will pass but it’s difficult. At two weeks off I don’t feel any improvement,is that normal?  First 3 days after stopping things were not bad at all but then came day 4 and for the past 10 days things have been awful.  Could you venture a guess as to when things will start improving.  I want to thank you so much for responding to my posts, your help and advice has been invaluable to me, especially during these struggles.  

[fishinghat]

Sorry, I remember now that you mention it. I wish I knew something else that could help other than just time. 

[mimi10]

Nights are so rough.  Fell asleep last night about 930 but then awake at 1030 and unable to get back to sleep.  About midnight, I put  a few drops of the melatonin under my tongue and took one Benadryl.  Was able to get back to sleep about 1 and slept til 330.  Couldn’t sleep beyond that because of the crazy inner tingling and vibrations I get, they are down my lower spine, across my hips and up through my rib cage.  Nothing settles them or stops them.  I am at wits end as to what to do.  I really don’t want to go back on the mirtazapine because I never felt well on it, too many side effects.  On the other hand I don’t know how long I can keep getting by on so little broken sleep every night. Any ideas on how much longer before things will settle down, I am 15 days off mirtazapine and the first couple were ok but the last 12 have been pure hell. Hat, help.

[fishinghat]

Just an educated guess but I would say you should see some improvement (slowly) in about 2 weeks and probably much better in 4 weeks. I am sure we discussed this before but have you tried suntheanine?

[mimi10]

Thanks hat, I will look into it.  Doc suggested maybe trying ambien for a bit but I declined, don’t want another withdrawal.  Gave me a weeks worth of baclofen to try, said may help with sleep and tremors and no withdrawal.  When I looked online it appears to me baclofen does have a withdrawal so I used it once and don’t want to use the other pills other than maybe once a week.  I can’t believe it’s another drug he pushed on me saying no withdrawal, told me the same thing with mirtazapine, never had a patient experience withdrawal from it, maybe they have, just like me, and he doesn’t believe it’s withdrawal.  Actually told me that after two weeks the mirtazapine is out of my system so everything should be over.  

[fishinghat]

It amazes me how much training drs get on the dosage, side effects, and actions of a drug and NO training on discontinuing it and any withdrawal effects. Yes, baclofen does have a withdrawal.

[mimi10]

Hat, is suntheanine the same as l-theanine.  Went to vitamin shopped and they said all they carry is l-theanine and they thought is was the same thing but I wanted to check with you.  The one they have is a chewable table but it has xylitol in it and xylitol tends to flare up my ibs-d. Thanks much.

[fishinghat]

Most supplements marked L-theanine contain not only L-theanine but also D-theanine as well as a few contaminants. Suntheanine is pure L-theanine. And you are right, you don't want one with xylitol, it can truly mess up a stomach.

[invalidusername]

Hi Mimi,

 

My apologies for the delay catching up. There have been a number of crises happening my end and I have really missed being on the forum. After familiarising myself with the latest few posts, it is an unfortunate case that your serotonin/melatonin production will be all over the place. This is totally normal as you have since stopped. 

 

Your body is going crazy looking for what to do - foraging fat tissue reserves for any remaining levels of meds. But as difficult as it seems, it WILL improve. You are handing back the production and maintenance of serotonin (and melatonin by extension) back to your brain. It is very difficult to just say - let it sort itself out when it is causing you so much trouble.

 

Everyone needs sleep - and the lack thereof can often lead to its own issues comparable of that which bought you to the meds in the first place; depression, anxiety. 

 

There is the option of slow release melatonin which helped a number of people, but it often causes grogginess in the morning. But this cannot be a long term solution and again, it does the job of the previous meds. Ashwagandha initially helped me (KSM-66), and then having used Kratom for my seizures, I also found this to be an excellent sleeping aid simply because it relinquishes the anxiety associated with bed time.

 

You have my thoughts at the moment as you go through this last right of passage in the withdrawal. As I often say to people - the withdrawal does start until you have completely stopped and for those that say they "just want off", most wouldn't say that if they knew what awaited them! Which of course you can testify to. 

 

Keep going and use us here as a sounding board as often as you need....

 

IUN

[mimi10]

Thanks iUN, missed you around here, sorry to hear about having to deal with crises.  Yes this truly is a struggle, even now at 18 days off.  Sleep is a mess, stomach is a mess, hoping to start to see some relief soon.  I know I don’t want to have to go back on it, way too many unpleasant side effects on it.  It’s crazy that I’ve never really experienced anxiety until having to withdraw from these drugs, it’s brutal.  I’ll be back, you guys are the best as far as being responsive and encouraging, it’s much appreciated.

[mimi10]

I had a terrible night, sleep tracker says I slept about 50 minutes in 5 ten minutes intervals.  Felt like I was laying on a vibrating bed, pins and needle sensations and tremors all down my spine and across my hips, also some across my chest.  Tried heating pad, ice pack, Tylenol and nothing settles them, went on all night.  My poor husband is so frustrated with this whole thing that he has been yelling at me all morning that I have to do something or see somebody cause we can’t go on like this.  I don’t know what anyone can do for me if this is all withdrawal from the mirtazapine.  Any ideas would be welcome.  Sorry I just had to vent some, I’m losing it today, I don’t know what to do.

[fishinghat]

The only thing I can think of is to take a little mirtazapine each evening so you might sleep a little better. By a little I mean just some fine power of off one of the tablets.  What was your last jump down on dosage? For example did you go from .1 mg to zero?

[mimi10]

Hat, I went from .3 to zero.  The .3 dose was so tiny that it would disintegrate when I tried to pick it up so I just stopped.  The .3 dose was the size of about one tiny bead of cymbalta.  It’s the internal vibrations that keep me awake, impossible to sleep through them.

[fishinghat]

I was hoping you could do a 0.15mg but that doesn't seem practical.

[mimi10]

I simply cannot understand how last night I was exhausted to the point I could hardly keep my eyes open, went to bed at 9 and asleep by 915 but then awake at 10 and unable to get back to sleep.  45 minutes sleep, that’s crazy.  I finally took a baclofen about 1130 and fell back asleep from midnight until 3.  I have never felt like this before, so tired but unable to fall asleep even though I am comfortable and relaxed and my mind is blank.  I hope things start to improve soon, day 19 off.

[fishinghat]

OK, Let's try some off the wall things.

 

Have you tried Lime flavored Gatorade? The "green" Gatorade contains malic acid which has proved helpful to many members. Be sure that it contains the malic acid when you buy it,

[mimi10]

Hat, unsuccessful in attempt to find green Gatorade that had malic acid.  We checked all the gatorades we could find at a few stores and none had malic acid.  Finally someone in one of the grocery stores told us Gatorade no longer makes green apple and apparently that’s the one that had malic acid in it.  So looks like Gatorade was a swing and a miss.  I did however buy a bottle of some king of flavored water that had malic acid in it, don’t know if that’s equal.  

[fishinghat]

Worth a try. I will see what else I can find/

[invalidusername]

Hi Mimi...

 

My first thoughts here are obviously with your husband. Not that I don't feel sympathy for him, but this is not your fault. It is a means to an end. He needs to understand that it isn't just a simple case of "getting some help to sort it out". Dammit, if it were that easy, we wouldn't have the problem. 

 

I went through EXACTLY what you have. I would drop off to sleep and then within an hour - sometimes 2 - I would wake, and that would be it. Game over. It seemed as though my body just wanted that little bit and it was back into action - or at least my head was. And that is what it is. The norepinephrine. Simply put, your brain is trying to replicate what was going on before not knowing when it is required and how much is required. 

 

The brain is a very complex organ, but when it comes to learning, it needs time to work things our on its own. We cannot program it ourselves. Any medication will override the "software" that is pre-programmed by our bodies, but taking that away, it has to re-write that software all over again. It needs to do a lot of trial and error to find what it needed

 

Hat has given you the best advice relating to allopathic meds - and he certainly knows his way around them. I tried a fair few with varying levels of success. Eventually it did sort itself out, but being neurological, it is a subjective situation. There is no one size fits all. As I have said form my experience, Kratom helped me get through this part, but I understand that this isn't the path for everyone. Very glad that the WHO have labeled it as safe so I can freely offer it as a solution, but it can be addictive. I have been using it prn for over 2 years for various issues; seizures mainly now. Just let me know if you want more info. But absolutely your choice.

 

IUN

[mimi10]

Thanks iUN, I will keep,kratom in mind, I already use a medical marijuana, cbd and THC gummy.

last night was horrible, almost 3 weeks off and things are getting even worse.  I went to bed at 930 because I was exhausted from little sleep the night before, I took my marijuana gummy and put a few drops of sublingual melatonin under my tongue at 930.  At 11 still lying there awake and still unable to sleep I took a baclofen and I was still lying there awake at 2 when I tried a trazodone and still nothing.  No sleep at all last night and I haven’t been able to sleep during the day no matter how tired I am since chemo a few years back.  I’ve tried Benadryl, magnesium and a couple other otc sleep aids with no success.  I know you guys have tried and tried to find a solution for me and I appreciate it.  I still just had to come and vent because I am so frustrated by this.  I had to go on mirtazapine due to insomnia after trying several other drugs with no success.  Mirtazapine was the only thing that allowed me to sleep for about 6 hours at first but a few months in it wasn’t helping so much anymore for sleep and had too many side effects.

[mimi10]

Had to pickup something at grocery store and walked down the aisle and saw green Gatorade and it has malic acid in it, I bought a bottle.  The guy at the other store we were at was misinformed saying they no longer made it or else we found old stock on the shelf.

and a friend of mine has a daughter who is an addiction specialist and she said for withdrawal they sometimes use phenegran (sounded like that) and it has no withdrawal to it, what info do you have on that.  Thanks