25 replies to this topic

[ShadyLady]

I don't know if Hypothyroidism is even a word!! I am on the discontinuation ledge of insanity as I try to write this!! Just got home from doctor appointment and am so angry:o, first time I've seen a doc since stopping the C two months ago. I have used this forum for support, as a guide to the withdrawal symptoms as well as researching links others have shared related to this poison.

Since stopping the Dope; I have gained 26 pounds, lost clumps of hair (when I have been able to shower & comb it!), sweat profusely, heart pounds, pulse rate hangs around 115, rabid itching, unable to sleep for longer than 2 hours, run a low grade fever, puffed face, swollen hands & ankles, severe leg/arm pain, vivid, gory nightmares, just garden variety withdrawal symptoms I read of others who have suffered some and/or similar! Okay, I'll 'watch the show' and the FX's and wait as patiently, as the remainder insane brain can, and let time take care of the less intense & lingering s/e's that we must endure to hope for some measureable progress & a better quality of life to return after the initial hell of stopping the drug.

Doctor was clueless, treated me like a leper, lied to me & was just a complete a$$!! Stated, "You sick lady!" I fricking know that, I'm CymSik:0 Uurrgh, I can't even type as my brain is sputtering & leaking brain pieces that shattered in the shock of withdrawal! I give him a print out from the Stopthethyroidmadness.com website of the lab work I Want related to my diagnosis of Hashimoto's and the astounding similarities & misdiagnosis of mental health disorders & hypothyroidism!!

I gotta pause & come back to this as I am shaking too much & the brain is blown out!! I don't want to dump what I have written and try and start over:0 Please bear, lion & tiger with me til I can pick this up later. UUURRRGGGHH, trying so hard not to swear & offend anyone but this sucks!!!

[FiveNotions]

Whoa, hang on Cym, we're here for you ... let's try some specific questions to get you a bit more focused ...
 
What is it exactly that got to you, caused you to get so angry?
 
What did the doc say to you about hypothyroidism, Hashimoto's, and the tests you want done?
 
Why do you say he lied to you?
 
What else, if anything, did he say?

I'm going to do some reading up on the hypothyroidism and to check out Stopthethyroidmadness.com ...

 

BTW, yes, hypothyroidism is a word

[Carleeta]

Cymsik, yes hypothyroidism is a word, and its what they call a slow thyroid.  Wasn't exactly sure what you were trying to say, although it's clear you are having a very difficult time trying to think, type, and get it all out.  We are here when your able to get it all out. 

 

Great question asked by FiveNotions...Once you are able to answer them, we'll have a better idea of what you are going through.

[FiveNotions]

Interesting, Cym ... the research seems to be split .. . some studies show a hypothyroidism / depression connection, others show the opposite ... so, you're getting caught in the cross-fire, so to speak ...

Hypothyroidism and Depression
http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC4017747/
Background: A relationship between hypothyroidism and depression has been assumed for many years; however, the true nature of this association has been difficult to define with many conflicting studies . . Conclusion: Despite the large number of studies, the relationship between thyroid function and depression remains poorly defined. Clarification of the proportion of subjects on thyroxine incorrectly may assist the large (perhaps genetically driven) studies needed to move forward in this area, as it is expected that they cloud the results.


Hypothyroidism and depression: salient aspects of pathogenesis and management
http://europepmc.org...ct/MED/24285104
Abstract: Hypothyroidism has been linked to depression as there is irrefutable evidence that it triggers affective disease and psychic disorders. Depressive patients have a higher frequency of hypothyroidism and patients with hypothyroidism have a higher occurrence of depressive syndrome. Hypothyroidism exhibits considerable alterations in blood flow and glucose metabolism in the brain. Furthermore, patients with major depression may have structural abnormalities of the hippocampus that can affect memory performance. Thyroid peroxidase antibodies have, moreover, been positively associated with trait markers of depression. Depressive symptomatology is variable and is influenced by susceptibility and the degree, though not always, of thyroid failure. In addition, glucose homeostasis and rapid weight loss have been associated to thyroid hormones and increased depressive symptoms. Thyroxine treatment in patients older than 65 years does not improve cognition. In contrast, T3 administration is the therapy of choice in patients with resistance to antidepressive drugs, and especially to SSIR. Genetic variants of thyroid hormone transporters or of deiodinases I and II may predispose to depression and, therefore, a personalized approach should be implemented.

[FiveNotions]

Well, the more recent research articles I'm scanning, from about 2010 to present, seem to be trending more towards agreeing that there is a connection between hypothyroidism and depression ...

Cym, I think you'll want to read this whole article ... also, just a note ... by the use of "elderly" in the title apparently refers to "baby boomers" ... so, if you're a boomer, this article is for you ... (and me) 

Subclinical Hypothyroidism, Mood, and Cognition in the Elderly: A Review
http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3488161/

From the article:
In addition to the common clinical signs and symptoms of clinical hypothyroidism (Papi et al, 2007), psychiatric symptoms, especially depressive and anxiety symptoms and depressive syndromes, are most common (Stern and Prange, 1995; Hennessey and Jackson, 1996), and often lead to initial misdiagnosis. Major depression is a prominent feature of clinical hypothyroidism and often can only be distinguished from the primary psychiatric disorder by thyroid function tests (Stern and Prange, 1995; Hennessey and Jackson, 1996). Cognitive dysfunction, including the clinical features of dementia (i.e., memory and other cognitive impairment severe enough to impact functional independence), are also frequently observed (Stern and Prange, 1995; Hennessey and Jackson, 1996).

Although not as common as in clinical hypothyroidism, a substantial minority of SCH patients -- perhaps up to 30 percent -- will have clinical complaints, many of which are similar to those reported with clinical hypothyroidism (Cooper et al, 1984; Nystrom et al, 1988; Haggerty et al, 1990; Monzani et al, 1993; Meier et al, 2001; Biondo and Cooper, 2008). In addition to depression, anxiety, and cognitive difficulties, SCH patients frequently report fatigue, hoarseness, constipation, muscle weakness and cramps, cold intolerance, and weight gain (Cooper et al, 1984; Nystrom et al, 1988; Haggerty et al, 1990; Monzani et al, 1993; Meier et al, 2001; Biondo and Cooper, 2008). Most, but not all, studies have found significant differences in physical, mood and cognitive measures between SCH subjects and healthy controls (see below).
 

[FiveNotions]

Cym, I'll hold off on more research until we hear back from you ... I did also confirm that all those symptoms you listed in your initial post can be associated with hypothyroidism ... and that there a many docs/researchers who believe that if the hypothyroidism is correctly diagnosed and treated, the depression and other cognitive issues usually resolve without directly treating them.

 

-------------------

Yes forum folks, welcome to the latest episode of "Medical Mysteries" .... the role of Guest Hostess and Glamorous Guinea Pig for this week's episode is .... ta da ... drum roll ... CymSik !!

 

[TryinginFL]

FN - thanks, I needed that!  LOL

[FiveNotions]

Cym, how are you doing / feeling today? Talk to us, please !

[ShadyLady]

Thank, God, you came on & rescued my nonsensical post! My intention was to try & help others who might share all these auto immune problems that I am 'diagnosed' with & post some links!!! Boy, did that go south:((. Yesterday is done, after a couple more crazy incidences that happened after I posted that fury...Today, I could lie & say it is a new day, a present:) & back on track, ha! but I am flat lined and back in the fetal position. What the hell went wrong, I had a great 3-4 days, for me anyways, and then BAM!! I have a meltdown in he doctor's office:../.

Guest Hostess & Glamorous Guinea Pig!! Teehee:D. Now that is classic!! Thanks for lightening the load, your concern & posting the links:). I appreciate you so much!

Carleeta, thanks for the support! I was so ashamed after I clicked 'Post' and read later what spewed from by broken brain:(

[ShadyLady]

ps, FN...I will answer your questions as I do NEED some direction here!! All I can manage today is reading the dailies here for encouragement & checking on my cyber buddies;) Big Hug to you...X

[Carleeta]

CymSk, you are ok.. By that I mean you were able to get on this forum and shout out a post to us. It's ok to be laid out and in the fetal position,(although, feeling bad is not so good). Just happy you let us know you will be letting us know what in the world happened yesterday, when you are up to it. You take care of yourself, now.

[ShadyLady]

Ok:/. To finish out this topic I started:/

I have Hashimoto's disease, it's hypothyroiditis that, when not properly diagnosed or treated and over a longer period of time, damages the thyroid gland or trashes it!! My definition only! The GP I have seen for about three years, he bought the practice from my former, awesome internist who became chronically ill and had to sell his practice:/. When you have multiple chronic health conditions it is difficult to coordinate care between the doctors, in my experience. In short, I have seen a psychiatrist, pain mgt, dr. & general practitioner for the last 12 years collectively. Each questions the treatment & drugs prescribed by the other. This fellow, the GP, is not even a decent doctor! I have just not had the physical strength or mental clarity to find someone else!

For the appointment, I had researched the correct lab work that had not been ordered. I have good insurance, Blue Cross PPO, and am tired of the substandard 5-10 minute 'Uh, huhs' while looking at a computer screen the entire time I am asking questions or advice!
I printed out, bad idea, a list of necessary labs for Hashimoto's & also asked him to check for liver enzyme levels. He stated he told me back in February that he could not treat me any longer as my health issues were too complex for him. Also, at the last appointment he asked me how the bp & statin meds were! Huh?! I've never been prescribed either one of them! After going back and forth, apparently he noticed those meds were accidentally entered into my patient data (chart) & was indignant about the error! I wrote this down for reference on my cell phone as my memory does suckMoving on to yesterday, I explained stopping the Cymbalta and the host of problems I have experienced in withdrawal. He asked me what Cymbalta was:0 !! What?! I exploded!! I was escorted out of the office by the male nurse or else 'they' would have to call security:0. I received a call from the receptionist later telling me that they would forward my records and lab results to my new doctor of which I don't have a 'new' doctor yet!

There is a major problem with the quality of doctors where I live, between San Diego & Los Angeles, maybe everywhere else too. I know there are specialists in both cities at the teaching hospitals. I am just alone in trying to navigate this in my present condition. Cliff diving off the C WAS a mistake, but at 2 months off now, what do I do?? It is an hour to two hour drive to either city depending on traffic.

After that experience:/ I get in my car & the stereo quit working and I ripped off the screen front and threw it out!! I get home and want to rest and put my legs up. The $$ anti-gravity chair I sit in breaks, like Goldilocks in the 3 Bears!! Broke, busted & disgusted sizes up yesterday!

I know I have work to do in seeking proper care for my health issues. Stopping the Cymbalta abruptly has only exacerbated the symptoms of my poor health conditions.

In summary, yesterday was a really bad day!! We all have them:/

[FiveNotions]

Cym, if there's one thing I can do, it's research and track down information. Just tell me what you need in terms of doctors/medical care, where exactly you live, how far you're willing to travel, etc., and I'll do my best to identify some options for you ... my thought would be to try to find some sort of group practice with the docs you need all under one roof, so to speak.

 

Just PM me with all your specifics, if you'd rather not post it all here.

 

PS... that's the best "how to get fired by a doc" story I've ever heard ... you really need to write a book or collection of short stories ... I'll volunteer to edit it!

[ZappAlta]

Ok:/. To finish out this topic I started:/

I have Hashimoto's disease, it's hypothyroiditis that, when not properly diagnosed or treated and over a longer period of time, damages the thyroid gland or trashes it!! My definition only! The GP I have seen for about three years, he bought the practice from my former, awesome internist who became chronically ill and had to sell his practice:/. When you have multiple chronic health conditions it is difficult to coordinate care between the doctors, in my experience. In short, I have seen a psychiatrist, pain mgt, dr. & general practitioner for the last 12 years collectively. Each questions the treatment & drugs prescribed by the other. This fellow, the GP, is not even a decent doctor! I have just not had the physical strength or mental clarity to find someone else!

For the appointment, I had researched the correct lab work that had not been ordered. I have good insurance, Blue Cross PPO, and am tired of the substandard 5-10 minute 'Uh, huhs' while looking at a computer screen the entire time I am asking questions or advice!
I printed out, bad idea, a list of necessary labs for Hashimoto's & also asked him to check for liver enzyme levels. He stated he told me back in February that he could not treat me any longer as my health issues were too complex for him. Also, at the last appointment he asked me how the bp & statin meds were! Huh?! I've never been prescribed either one of them! After going back and forth, apparently he noticed those meds were accidentally entered into my patient data (chart) & was indignant about the error! I wrote this down for reference on my cell phone as my memory does suckMoving on to yesterday, I explained stopping the Cymbalta and the host of problems I have experienced in withdrawal. He asked me what Cymbalta was:0 !! What?! I exploded!! I was escorted out of the office by the male nurse or else 'they' would have to call security:0. I received a call from the receptionist later telling me that they would forward my records and lab results to my new doctor of which I don't have a 'new' doctor yet!

There is a major problem with the quality of doctors where I live, between San Diego & Los Angeles, maybe everywhere else too. I know there are specialists in both cities at the teaching hospitals. I am just alone in trying to navigate this in my present condition. Cliff diving off the C WAS a mistake, but at 2 months off now, what do I do?? It is an hour to two hour drive to either city depending on traffic.

After that experience:/ I get in my car & the stereo quit working and I ripped off the screen front and threw it out!! I get home and want to rest and put my legs up. The $$ anti-gravity chair I sit in breaks, like Goldilocks in the 3 Bears!! Broke, busted & disgusted sizes up yesterday!

I know I have work to do in seeking proper care for my health issues. Stopping the Cymbalta abruptly has only exacerbated the symptoms of my poor health conditions.

In summary, yesterday was a really bad day!! We all have them:/

Aww Cym I still read humour in your" tales of woe"   Hugs galore you are 2 months aglow:) I too will gladly help you with selecting a GP and also have the same insurance as you plus I'm in N Cal   Pm me private if you wish

[Amybc7]

Cym...

 

I read your post last night and had to walk away and post today.  I was feeding off your energy!     Such an experience!  

 

My mother in law was diagnosed with Hashimoto's last year.  It is incredibly frustrating for her as she has developed a goiter.  Her doctor assures her that with medication it will decrease and it doesn't affect her eating or breathing.  She has a lot of anxiety about it and insists that it does - usually resulting in a trip to the ER for panic attacks and dehydration.  I suggested a benzo for many reasons (she is the mother-in-law after all!) but she is resistant.  What I've read still seems vague - lots of "might be caused by" and "indicators could be".  I like answers.  I like that if you have A and use B you will get C.  She doesn't get a lot of that - and it sounds like you haven't either.  

 

As for Cymbalta...I posted about this just last week!  (Two weeks?  Who knows?  What day is it?  Hahaha).  I was diagnosed with hypothyroidism a little over a year ago.  It was only slightly low ("We treat the patient not the numbers") and I was put on medication.  Since I started decreasing the Cymbalta and adjusted the thyroid medication - I'm now in the high/normal range.  Does the Cymbalta affect the the thyroid?  Does the decreasing of the Cymbalta affect the thyroid?  Who the hell knows?

 

What I do know is that the doctor wants to blame the Cymbalta withdrawal side affects on the thyroid.  I just went an ugly battle as they wanted to increase the medications more to eliminate the nausea, tired, icky feeling.  This could have pushed my thyroid levels into high.  I refused.   I'd rather wait it out and see what happens.

 

You're already amazing - you researched it.  All of it.  Your symptoms could be either one - or both!  Keep advocating for yourself and you've got this.

[ShadyLady]

ZappA;) Thank you for the hugs & the offer!! The ppls here on this forum are my lifeline of sanity! Never have been a social media gal until now...I know I could rant, empathize & be compassionate here (makes me feel like I can get through this shit somehow) where with my friends I am an alien right now:(. Uurrrgh. I am getting my blood work done in the morning;) if I have to tumble & roll in my jammies!

You must've been walking with the zombies, I see you posted @ 12:42am;). Today is my 58th!! Maybe I should go and swim with the blue haired seniors to celebrate at the 'Club' celebrate in style!

[thismoment]

CS

 

I'm sorry to hear how entropy swallowed your day. Girl, you've been through it! FWIW you write beautifully.

[ShadyLady]

Hi, Amy...you're a sweetheart;). The website Stopthethyroidmadness.com & ThyroidMom.com, sorry I still can't figure out how to post links here even though This Moment gave me ez instructions:(, are great websites to understand & navigate these thyroid issues. Confusing & frustrating, yes! Gaining 26lbs over 9 weeks is not a side effect of the C that I have read about here or anywhere, also nodules & a freaky looking neck! Not a pretty sight & not a frickin' thing I own (which is waaaay too many clothes!) fits! Been wearing muumuu lookin tents to cover up, omg!!

Please learn about your thyroid and treatment for T3 not just T4!! Save that 'butterfly' gland!!

Hugs, Rebecca

[thismoment]

Rebecca

 

Here they are; I hope you don't mind.

 

 

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com

 

http://www.thyroidmom.com

[ShadyLady]

Reba no mind at all;D. Thank you...maybe soon I will be able to connect some dotz whenever my neurotrans begin unspiraling...they're corkscrew shaped right now and not doing their job! They're Fired, well, no not exactly, huh?!

[fishinghat]

Amybc7 - Any severe stress (like Cymbalta withdrawal) can cause an increase in TSH (thyroid stimulating hormone). I know there have been several experience this. Whether or not this will correct the problem time will tell.

[fishinghat]

Posted 25 July 2014 - 08:57 AM

"Well first of all only 0.4% of those reporting side efects to the FDA reported hypothyroidism. Thats pretty low.

 

While I couldn't find any medical research articles directly on point there is ample literature that during periods of very high stress (eg Cymbalta withdrawal) the TSH values can raise dramatically only to return to normal afdter the stress is removed. The t3 and t4 levels should be taken if the TSH elevates. If the t3 and t4 levels are fine then the TSH levels should be monitored. I know this happened to me during the withdrawal. You will find posted related to that around March of 2013.  I remember someone else at that time had a similar experience with TSH also."

[thismoment]

Reba

 

I think the mosaic of your mind is more multi-faceted and rainbow-dimensional than mine, and perhaps you have to pause, stand back, light a metaphorical smoke, stand on one hip, tilt your head, squint your eyes and point with the smoke and say, "Y'know, I can't rush this; this little Chartres Blue tile needs to go there, not here. Okay. I'm starting to see that this is all mine, and to invite even one other person to this loving mindful mosaic-reassembly of my life would only mess with my private rush! Yes my little blue darling there is your nest, your home." She sits back in the chair, knits her fingers behind her head and crosses her legs; she blows a metaphorical smoke ring into the quiet of the night and slowly smiles.
 

[FiveNotions]

TM, man, your mind is also pretty darned "multi-faceted and rainbow-dimensional" .... you sure you didn't "cross-over" from Cymbalta to Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds ?

[ShadyLady]

Crumb!! I'm outta 'likes'...I'm laughing so hard at your post, FN ...I read TM's post to a girlfriend & she was clueless, but replied with "I'm glad you know someone that is deep (huh?!) like you!" Hahaha, I think she was being snarky but I LIKE "deep" ha;)

[FiveNotions]

hehehe ... that reminds me of a story from "back in my day" ... there was a young chemistry prof at my university by the name of Peter Leermakers ... he created some of the finest Lucy in the Sky ever known  in his chem lab on campus ...(clandestinely, of course)

Ironically, there's now an annual chem symposium named after him ... (I wonder who gave the endowment for that?) http://www.wesleyan....leermakers.html

Continuing the irony, this is really hilarious ....his bio on the website states that he was "widely regarded as a creative chemist" [as in "hey, let's use university resources to cook up some recreational "stuff"].... it goes on to say that he was "held in high esteem by his students and his colleagues" [as in, yeah, students and colleagues alike were "high" and totally "steamed" on his "stuff"] .... and that he "inspired many students to choose chemistry as a career [as in "yo,' let's make some of this stuff ourselves"] ....

Unfortunately, his career as a "creative chemist" lasted just 2 years ... it ended one night in California as he was "testing" some of his famous concoction ... and drove straight off a cliff ...

that was just 2 years before I arrived on campus... but trust me, his "recipe" had been passed on to his students and colleagues ... and they were still getting "high" and "steamed" ....