Last Minute Decision
#1
Posted 18 July 2013 - 12:04 AM
#2
Posted 19 July 2013 - 02:28 PM
Hi Rhodes54
I don't know a whole lot about the supplements you are taking as have never taken all that many myself.
One thing I do know is that you should NOT take 5HTP until you are completely off the cymbalta for a few weeks. Since they both do the same thing you would be at risk of serotonin syndrome.
I would discuss this with your pharmacist if I were you. Usually if you give them a list of the supplements you take then they will look it all up and let you know if there are any conflicts with any meds.
Don't forget that alcohol is a mood altering drug as well and highly addictive. There has to be a better way to feel better than that and it is very hard on your liver which needs to be in top shape to detox your body.
Take care
Oh and I did read the whole thing and more than once to get it all lol
- Rhodes54 likes this
#3
Posted 19 July 2013 - 06:27 PM
I've read about not combining 5-HTP with cymbalta and have avoided it. Logically, I recognize alcohol being a depressant, but I've never noticed any particular benefit from stopping. I've quit drinking cold turkey several occasions for as much as a month, expecting some newfound surge of energy, release from addiction and/or emotional uplift that never came. I only felt helpless when the inevitable depression and anxiety episodes came on and I had no defense.
I wish I had asked at the top of my original post; Does EVERYONE go through such extreme withdrawals from Cymbalta? Is there some kind of self-test one can perform, like skipping a day or more to see how bad it gets before committing? Other than the emotional disconnect and mild sexual side effects, I've never noticed much when increasing/decreasing dosages.
I just don't think after 12 years this med is doing anything for me other than dulling my feelings.
I don't have a regular pharmacist to talk to, since I have to bargain shop every refill, much less finding one who could tell me about interactions with nootropics/herbs and which would help regulate serotonin during withdrawal
Thank you again for your reply and I look forward to hearing from anyone on the forum
#4
Posted 19 July 2013 - 07:10 PM
The medical research says that only 19 to 31% have withdrawal from the medicine. An average of around 20%. As far as I know there is no self-test so to speak but....Cymbalta has a short half-life which is why it hits you hard and fast. If you wanted to find out just step down your dosage. Go from 60 to 30 for a week, then 30 every other day. Now I am not a doctor but this seems to be the way most doctors suggest. If you get to 30 mg every other day for a week with no problem I would say you would be OK. If things start getting bad during this process just go back to 60 mg until stable. If you are still interested in getting off this crap then you can try the bead counting method which is a lot slower but easier.
- Rhodes54 likes this
#5
Posted 21 July 2013 - 08:05 PM
I've stepped down to 30 since Thursday will nothing noticeable. Maybe I'll be one of the lucky ones. I'm seeing my pdoc tomorrow, so maybe they can suggest something. (Who am I kidding? I'm always the one bringing HER information.) Thanks for everyone's input.
#7
Posted 24 July 2013 - 10:00 AM
Day 6 since going straight from 60mg->30mg. Nothing noticeable. In fact, I feel amazing. I am supplementing with:
1000mg theanine (spread out over the day,
1g Maca powder,
4g fish oil,
B complex,
1g mucuna pruriens powder (whole bean, not extract),
500mg DMAE
Melatonin and Valerian before bed.
Lots of clarified pasture butter, unrefined coconut oil, pasture eggs, wild-caught Alaskan salmon, local kale and grass-fed beef.
I met with my doc Monday and told her my plan. She suggested staying on 30mg for another week and then keeping a small supply on hand in case I started developing symptoms.
#10
Posted 26 July 2013 - 11:19 AM
Hi Rhodes54
That would be interesting to see how your blood work comes out.
8 days on 30mg. Good for you. How have you been feeling?
I hope that everything goes smoothly for you on Saturday. It should let you know how you will react.
Here's hoping that you are in the 80% group
Take care
- Rhodes54 likes this
#11
Posted 11 August 2013 - 06:55 PM
Rhodes54
How are you feeling? still good?
I was wondering this morning whether someone has tried the supplements PRIOR to stopping.....if having that kind of back up BEFORE trying to come off the crapalta helps with the withdrawals. I have been searching here off and on this afternoon...yours is the first post I have seen that comes close, as you were already taking some of the supplements for a while before. But there is sooo much information here....sometimes it takes a while to find something specific.
Seems like most of us didnt find this site until after the fact. Something I am very grateful for but wish I had found it before I started walking the long back road thru hell.
It would certainly help those getting ready to quit, if the supplements help even more if you start taking them a while before stopping and get a kind of good, strong supplemental...internal army ... together before the big fight.
Does anyone know if that is the case?
I hope you are still doing well after stopping.
#12
Posted 12 August 2013 - 03:19 PM
Just to answer the question.
Yes we have had people who have started the supplements before starting the taper and they have done well. Only problem is that we don't know if they would have had problems stopping cymbalta or not anyway as there is no way to know if someone will have problems or not until they try tapering or stopping.
The only thing that I know is that the only sure fired way of stopping without bad side effects is a very slow taper. That means that if you have even a small side effect while tapering then you immediately go back to the dose from the day before and stay there until that little side effect stops then you can resume tapering.
If a person has side effects while tapering then they are tapering too fast for them. It is all relative to how this particular poison affects that person.
Oh to be in the 80% who is not affected in any serious way by this crap.
#13
Posted 29 August 2013 - 05:09 PM
Look, I'm back! So I've been off Cymbalta for 33 days after a two-week taper from 90-0mg
First week, I felt AMAZING! Bulletproof! This has continued for a while. I've kept up my gym and supplement regimen. Lately, though, this past week, I've been getting more distracted, anxious and even more irritable than usual. Today, while taking a short power nap/meditation, I think I got one of those "brain zaps". Felt like a static discharge in my head. Not painful...just a small zap. Hmm... Texted my doc who suggested this might happen and to take 30mg just in case.
On a side note, in the last week I ran out of fish oil (taking 5g daily for 1800 total Omega-3) AND I reduced alcohol intake dramatically, maybe having a single 12oz strong ale every other day instead of a bottle of wine or whatever the rest of the band is drinking. Got the fish oil restocked. I wonder if the sudden decrease of alcohol combined with the drop in Omega 3's could be causing the downward spiral OR if the Cymbalta withdrawal is kicking in.
Alternately, it could be serotonin depletion since the Cymbalta is no longer the foreman on that site. I'll research this, of course, but what is the general consensus about how long to wait after stopping an SNRI before investigating 5-HTP, SJW or Kanna?
I said I'd post the bloodwork, but it's pretty long. There was nothing on it that stood out and my lipids have actually improved since I switched to paleo/primal diet. Let me know if you'd like anything specific.
#14
Posted 18 February 2014 - 05:15 PM
Looking through old bookmarks. No one is reading this thread anyway. I've now been off Cymbalta for 204 days. Doing mostly OK. There are days when I'm really down and wonder if it's because I'm not on ANY anti-dep meds, but those spells don't last for more than a day or two. I will share the most effective method I've found (and I've tried a LOT) for dealing with bad days....... kratom. I've never taken anything else that comes close to immediately lifting my mood. Amazing stuff. Not trying to advocate or profit by this, just sharing my own experience after having lived in such a black hole for so long. Viviere memento!
- redjam likes this
#15
Posted 18 February 2014 - 05:50 PM
I'm not sure that kratom is a good way to go for most of us here...good to know it's helping you....but have you researched it fully? It's illegal in a number of Asian countries, and the FDA here seems to be considering the same..... It's definitely being used "recreationally".....
I just spent some time out on the 'net ...and many commenters indicate that it has helped them in opiate withdrawal, others indicate that it's a great "high"...and others say that it has been addictive for them and that they've had trouble getting off it as well....
Let's see what others here have to add to this discussion....
http://www.scientifi...ratom-be-legal/
http://www.foxnews.c...ant-based-high/
http://www.drugs-for...ead.php?t=55855
http://www.drugs-for...ead.php?t=55855
#16
Posted 18 February 2014 - 06:11 PM
I did quite a bit of research into it. There is a considerable amount of misinformation and scare tactics reported on kratom. Like many effective herbals and medications, kratom has to potential for abuse and is hence more newsworthy, especially for an outlet like Fox News.
From what I've gathered, most of the reasons for it's illegality in Asian countries is due to kratom's impact on the lucrative opium trade, much like marijuana was made illegal because it was a threat to "Big Cotton". Could be crackpot conspiracy, but most health "news" eventually leads back to money.
I certainly would encourage anyone/everyone to do their own research. I can only offer that kratom works really well for ME in regards to depression/anxiety and the "high" is more of a relaxed motivational energy at moderate doses.
#17
Posted 18 February 2014 - 06:15 PM
#18
Posted 18 February 2014 - 06:20 PM
http://www.sagewisdo...ratomguide.html
#19
Posted 18 February 2014 - 06:32 PM
It's fairly easy if you don't mess about with teas and "extracts". Some of the doses they mention are FAR beyond what I would consider. I only order plain leaf powder from a quality vendor and toss it back in glass of juice. There's a wealth of info and support on the forums at kratomconnoisseurs.com
Again, I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. I'm only sharing this because it's helped me crawl out of the 30-year emotional sinkhole of depression and the numbness of the AD meds I used to rely on. It definitely bears looking into.
#20
Posted 18 February 2014 - 06:49 PM
I see you are using Kratom and it works for you. This sensitive area and one which I see is legal in the US. Won't say what I may know concerning this sensitive area ( I have not tried it ) although I will say since you havefonr research yourself, others also need to research Kratom..It's Definitely somethings which needs research even beyond the internet..
A word about Kratom..please check this thoroughly especially when blood work and urine testing is done, especially random drug tests at work...Having said that..it's strictly up to the individual to make this choice.
Rhodes54..Once again thank you for popping back in keep posting your progress..
#22
Posted 18 February 2014 - 07:30 PM
Im glad you researched this Kratom and made your decision. Its definitely something that needs research and a straight talk with your medical team.
#23
Posted 18 February 2014 - 07:31 PM
FN is correct. Great caution should be exercised before use of this product. It reacts with the same receptors as opium. Immediate deaths have occured with taking it. Most commercial (internet) products contain codiene, pseudoephrine, caffiene and other stimulants with the Kratom. Some foreign countries are using this like you would an opiod pain killer. It is addictive and you can build up tolerance to it.
Some light reading; lol
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24325774
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23846544
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23212430
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23206666
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23082895
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22018854
#24
Posted 18 February 2014 - 07:38 PM
Here are some details on the withdrawal from Kratom.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20798544
Seizures and comma;
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20411370
The more I read the more it sounds like a drug similar to the alkoids in opium.
#26
Posted 18 February 2014 - 08:00 PM
Sorry all, didn't mean to start a thing on this. I don't document all my readings. I simply gather useful info, evaluate its source and make decisions. In my experience and from everything I've read, kratom seems magnitudes less dangerous than Cymbalta, opiates, sugar, wheat, etc Plain leaf ground kratom, from a reliable vendor contains no 'codiene, pseudoephrine, caffiene and other stimulants' and seems to help a lot of people in dealing with a variety of mental and physical health issues.
#27
Posted 18 February 2014 - 08:25 PM
#28
Posted 18 February 2014 - 08:53 PM
Sorry all, didn't mean to start a thing on this. I don't document all my readings. I simply gather useful info, evaluate its source and make decisions. In my experience and from everything I've read, kratom seems magnitudes less dangerous than Cymbalta, opiates, sugar, wheat, etc Plain leaf ground kratom, from a reliable vendor contains no 'codiene, pseudoephrine, caffiene and other stimulants' and seems to help a lot of people in dealing with a variety of mental and physical health issues.
Rhodes54. No No, you didn't start anything. Infact what you posted is helpful for those you will be researching Kratom. My answer to your post was including additional information if people are concerned about drug testing where they work. By no means is your post negative...I and others will see it as positive and do the research on it and check if it's going to work for them and if they want to chose it or not. This forum is all about choices here. I commend you for bringing this out. Please realize your post is going to be an asset for viewers here and members. I do thank you for it.
Keep posting and let us know about your progress.
#29
Posted 18 February 2014 - 09:43 PM
Rhodes54, glad you came back and checked in. Kratom, I'm clueless about it! I am trying my best to stay totally free of anything that is going to alter my brain. On Paxil first then Cymbalta since prob' mid/late 1990s been off since Mid/late Nov. '13 and my frikkin' brain STILL does not function as it should. So I'm riding this out praying for healing for myself and all others on the forum. Please be careful, and keep us updated! All my best!!! clara
#30
Posted 18 February 2014 - 11:37 PM
It becomes increasing eye-rolling when I see the phrase "talk to your doctor" or medical team.... wait, I'm repeating myself...
Please don't say, "Ask your doctor", because I've yet to meet with any medical professional who can speak intelligently about both pharms AND herbal supplements/nootropics. (A few years back, my forum lurking saved my dad from prostate surgery because his urologist had never heard of brachytherapy. When Cymbalta first came out, I had to tell my own doctor about it. I have very little faith in the medical community.)
In my later years, I've engaged in a level of questioning that I SHOULD have started DECADES ago. You talk to your doctor, you read something on WebMD or a forum but the important approach is, WHY is this being said? Who benefits from the distribution of this information? Your "doctor", whom you implicitly trust, tells you he wants to try you on this or that med, but how do you know he wasn't just taken out to a fancy lunch by some pharma rep who quoted a few studies (most likely funded by the company he represents). Sure, you trust your doctor, but maybe he's got his own set of problems and can't be bothered to read the results of every clinical trial that comes out. So where IS your "doctor" getting his current information?
Thus, after 25 years of battling with depression/anxiety with only marginal results from the medical community, I made the decision to become my own doctor. Who else can I trust? You think my 'medical team' knows anything about kratom, kava, mucuna pruriens, maca root, high dose theanine, ayuhuasca, etc? Besides, I'm my own best guinea pig. You can see from my supplement experiments above that I've looked into this a bit. I get my blood work done and do my own interpretation of the results.
I can't say with any authority that what works for me will work for everyone. I'm still not entirely conclusive what it is/was about my regimen that is winning. It's likely a combination of some supplement I'm on, treating depression as a violent enemy and releasing that anger in the gym and avoiding sugar and grains (I don't know about the gluten-free fad, but I'm sticking with 'ALL grains are bad' or at least, not beneficial to the human diet).
When that doesn't work...well, there's kratom, which ALWAYS shines a light, provides energy and puts me in the mood to fight another demon.
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